I have a riding lawn mower and you can fool all activity tracking devices. My old UP24 would take my 2 hour mowing as 5 miles of walking. My borrowed Fitbit registered well over a mile walking and the Apple Watch was half that. So may we can say the Apple Watch is best? ;-) Same with riding on a speed boat. None of them are perfect but I won't stop wearing mine when I mow as I use my Bluetooth headphones attached to the watch listening to music or a book. Love it.
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Step Counter is Horrible
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I put on my noise cancelling Wireless Studio headset and mow every week. Almost two acres of grass. Toro Diesel
Very similar to me
except I am in the northern Midwest and you better use a John Deere Sounds like we may have the same headphones as well. Need it for the noise the mower makes especially when listening to a book.
a lot of things on the AW is horrible. counter, battery life with WOS2 GM, Heart Rate Monitor, iPhone needed for pretty much everything... It just seems like Apple is more focused on bands, and going on about how "beautiful" the watch is. It's really not the beautiful it's okay. It's like comparing the original iPhone to todays iPhone 5, and 6; the original looks like crap. The AW design could of been better, it shouldn't take Apple 3-4 designs to get to where the 5 and 6 iPhone designs are.
Apple should consider making the AW Sport a all fitness watch that rivals the FitBit and then have the Apple Watch for users who want fashion/style and everything else that will drain the battery.
Apple should consider making the AW Sport a all fitness watch that rivals the FitBit and then have the Apple Watch for users who want fashion/style and everything else that will drain the battery.
Very similar to me
Sounds like we may have the same headphones as well. Need it for the noise the mower makes especially when listening to a book.
Not a lot of Deere dealers here for support but they make great equipment!
Just to keep it on topic: Apple Watch!
Because your wrist is still moving. It picks up on the subtle movements and even though your arm isn't "swinging" per se, it's still moving back and forth a bit in a motion in line with what your body does when you walk. This is why the accelerometer can still count steps when you're carrying something, though it may be less accurate. But if you've stabilized your wrist, such as on a lawnmower, a stroller, or a rolling bag, your wrist may not make any movements that can be detected as walking.
The accelerometer has no ability whatsoever to detect movement of a body part it's not attached to. It cannot tell, when on your wrist, if you've moved your leg. It can only tell if you move your wrist.
Since we are all just guessing on this...
The watch has a 3-D accelerometer, whereas a pendulum on an old school pedometer likely only detects a single dimension of movement. As a result, the algorithms used to identify movement are radically different with the watch. For example, where a simple pendelum-based device might only capture that you moved or not moved in a dimension, an accelerometer-based device can detect how fast and how far you moved in a dimension. Add another two dimensions, and the watch can see things like vertical oscillation, wrist twist, lateral movement, forward/back swing, etc. So, it can see that you are moving, even when you try to hold your arm against your body. But, hold on to an object that stabilizes your arm in all dimensions, like a mower or jogging stroller, and the algorithm and accelerometer lose the ability to detect any meaningful body motion.
The watch has a 3-D accelerometer, whereas a pendulum on an old school pedometer likely only detects a single dimension of movement. As a result, the algorithms used to identify movement are radically different with the watch. For example, where a simple pendelum-based device might only capture that you moved or not moved in a dimension, an accelerometer-based device can detect how fast and how far you moved in a dimension. Add another two dimensions, and the watch can see things like vertical oscillation, wrist twist, lateral movement, forward/back swing, etc. So, it can see that you are moving, even when you try to hold your arm against your body. But, hold on to an object that stabilizes your arm in all dimensions, like a mower or jogging stroller, and the algorithm and accelerometer lose the ability to detect any meaningful body motion.
Not so. The watch like other pedometers can sense the step or the foot making contact with the ground, step after step. It is why you can put a pedometer in your pocket or wear it on your belt. I am not really caring how it is done as it is not that important. I do not depend on it for accuracy.
My wish is that Apple would have allowed the watch to use the iPhone's GPS to map my walks and runs in the Apple App. How hard would that have been, Apple?
Please read here for a basic understanding of the way pedometers work.
http://www.explainthatstuff.com/how-pedometers-work.html
Thanks, I already have read it and do not agree that it is applicable to the watch, but thank you anyway!
Actually, it's exactly so. You say you don't know/care how it works, but you seem to think it's some kind of magic. It's not. Pedometers can only sense a step if the body part they are attached to makes a movement that indicates the step. The hip is directly involved in the leg movement of making a step. The wrist is not. This is why pedometers were traditionally (not really the right word, but you know what I mean) worn on the hip (belt or pants pocket) or the foot - both are used in the action of stepping. This is also why, when wearing the AW on your wrist, putting your arms on your sides or in your pants pockets gets very accurate results - you're pressing your hands to your hip bones and/or pelvic bones, which move with each step.
Because the AW can sense motion on multiple planes, you can have your wrist in different positions and it can still detect the motion that your wrist makes when you step (aka the "arm swing" that may not be an actual swing, but rather a bob or tilt). This is why it still works when your hands are in your waist-high jacket pockets or caring a bag. But here you may see a decrease in accuracy, as some people actually don't move their upper bodies much when they walk, so if their arms aren't hanging by their sides, the wrist movement *might* not be enough to register.
If you do some searching, you'll find that all pedometers out there have that same limitation - if they are attached to a body part that's not moving or is fairly stabilized, like the wrist when pushing a cart or stroller, they cannot detect steps.
Threads like this always make me laugh. Someone decides to bellyache about how an Apple product is "horrible" in some way, but they fail to consider that all devices of a similar class face the same challenge. When other people point this out someone else always somehow brings up Steve Jobs. It's almost always the "You're doing X wrong" statement or a flavor of "Steve would have never X." Such statements prove that the person making them isn't really interested in finding a solution to the problem; all he/she cares about is complaining.
OP, show me a wrist-worn fitness tracker that will accurately track every step in every scenario, especially the one you described. My wife's FitBit Charge HR does the exact same thing you complained about. But I've gotten around this limitation by keeping my iPhone in my pocket when mowing the lawn.
OP, show me a wrist-worn fitness tracker that will accurately track every step in every scenario, especially the one you described. My wife's FitBit Charge HR does the exact same thing you complained about. But I've gotten around this limitation by keeping my iPhone in my pocket when mowing the lawn.
I do not think that explanation applies to modern, solid state activity trackers that utilize three dimensional accelerometers and three dimensional gyroscopes like the AW. These detect motion, velocity, impact, and twist in all dimensions and feed those measurements into algorithms that determine the nature of the movement. A pedometer in that illustration is using a simple pendulum that counts speed changes one dimension. The writer has one paragraph to say that none of the above applies to modern devices.
It's not mystical, it is science whether you, me or anyone else for that matter agree it is applicable or not. The
Watch uses the same type of accelerometers/gyroscopes found in almost all pedometers and smart watches. It just uses arm acceleration/movement (like all wrist worn pedometers/smart watches) instead of hip acceleration/movement for the algorithms.Neil deGrasse Tyson said:
It applies as a basic understanding in the way accelerometers work. Devices like the
Watch and iPhone (and all wrist/pocket pedometers) just require more complex algorithms to account for the dynamic use since they are not always in the same relative plane as the 'old fashion' belt worn pedometers.
Except that the entire article is written around the concept of a one-dimensional pendulum that simply counts movement starts & stops. That is not how activity trackers with 6 motion dimensions sensors work. His one paragraph that obviates the rest of the essay only even considers "two or three accelerometers." It is as if the essay is 10 years old, and it got a minor update a couple years ago. The point is that modern devices to not use a simple method like the author describes-- they are able to trace entire movements of an arm in all dimensions, and they map those movements to activity patterns that align with steps or whatever else you are doing.It applies as a basic understanding in the way accelerometers work. Devices like the
Here is a super cool example... my Garmin 910XT counts swim strokes. If it just had a simple two or three accelerometers, it could know that I completed a stroke, but that would be about it. Instead, the watch not only knows when I complete a stroke, but it also knows what kind of stroke it is (it differentiates between back, breast, fly, and free). That is the 6-dimension thing going on with CPU interpretation. And because of this, what it can count is far more accurate and useful than a simple pendulum approach. The same applies to how the AW counts a step.
Again, I covered this and I'm in agreement with you. The OP and many others believe that a pedometer should just 'magically' know when you are putting your foot on the ground and count that. I was simply pointing out the basic science behind a pedometer/accelerometer. I will restate exactly what I said with modifiers and it agrees with your more complex assessment of multi-axis accelerometers and more complex algorithms in watches.
Devices like the
Watch and iPhone (and all wrist/pocket pedometers) just require [far] more complex algorithms [and use multi-axis accelerometers] to account for the dynamic use since they are not always in the same relative plane as the 'old fashion' belt worn pedometers.
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Dread Creeping Cthulhu, what difference does it make? I swim for an hour almost every day. Do you know how much credit the Watch Activity app gives me for that? Bupkis! Do I care? Not in the least. If it's giving you exercise credits for sitting on the couch eating Cheesy Poofs, you might have a valid complaint. But let's not attribute precision to a system that, because it's attached to a human, is bound to be imprecise. The actual exercise you get, the actual number of calories you burn ... these things are approximations. Don't try to track precise values, track trends.
Back on topic... OP, I think you could have a defective watch. Is your reel mower the type where you are constantly pushing and pulling it back and forth as you walk forward? If so, then you would be generating hundreds of arm movements that it seems like the watch would likely interpret as steps.
Similarly, if you are walking 20 minutes to work at a typical walking pace, you should get around 2,000 steps. Are you carrying anything in the hand with the watch, like a drink for example, that could significantly affect your arm movements?
I would give Apple a call if I were you.
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It's not mystical, it is science whether you, me or anyone else for that matter agree it is applicable or not. The
"What I find fantastic is any notion that there are answers beyond the realm of science. The answers are there. You just have to know where to look." ~Special Agent Dana Scully
You swim with the watch on, and you get no Activity credit? Your red activity ring doesn't move? That seems odd. I can see getting no exercise credit (green ring), but I do get activity credit when I make swimming motions with my arms.
I get around the Apple Watch lawn mower step counter issue by paying someone else to mow my lawn
Aside from that I have worn the Apple Watch alongside a Fitbit One (which is usually in my pocket) for the last two months and for the most part I have found the Apple Watch to be quite accurate. Caveat: I always have my iPhone with me (either in a jacket pocket or bag), so the watch benefits from the GPS in the iPhone. My exercise/workouts are always Outdoor Walks and Outdoor Cycling. I would say the Fitbit records about 5% more steps and maybe 15% more stairs climbed. I think the Fitbit is more accurate for stairs climbed.
Overall the Activity Rings seem pretty accurate. On days when I am not getting a lot of exercise, my Move ring will still show progress if I am doing a lot of moving around (like cleaning the house or playing in the yard with the kids).
But yeah...all of these devices can be fooled when it comes to some types of activity. While my Fitbit is great for recording steps and stairs, it's useless for bicycling (my Fitbit One does not have GPS or a heart rate monitor), which is my main form of exercise. The Apple Watch, especially when paired with an app like Strava, is much better for cycling. The iPhone's GPS records the distance and the watch's heart rate monitor records the intensity. A blue-tooth enabled cyclometer would be even more accurate though, and it would capture cadence. I would go that route if I still raced, but I don't so I don't need that level of accuracy. In fact I just use the Apple Watch workout app to record my bike rides. I gave apps like Strava and try. They are impressive (especially for recording the elevation climbed) but again I am not a competitive athlete. I just want to track how much general exercise and activity I am getting, and the Apple Watch plus iPhone is working well for me.
Sean
Aside from that I have worn the Apple Watch alongside a Fitbit One (which is usually in my pocket) for the last two months and for the most part I have found the Apple Watch to be quite accurate. Caveat: I always have my iPhone with me (either in a jacket pocket or bag), so the watch benefits from the GPS in the iPhone. My exercise/workouts are always Outdoor Walks and Outdoor Cycling. I would say the Fitbit records about 5% more steps and maybe 15% more stairs climbed. I think the Fitbit is more accurate for stairs climbed.
Overall the Activity Rings seem pretty accurate. On days when I am not getting a lot of exercise, my Move ring will still show progress if I am doing a lot of moving around (like cleaning the house or playing in the yard with the kids).
But yeah...all of these devices can be fooled when it comes to some types of activity. While my Fitbit is great for recording steps and stairs, it's useless for bicycling (my Fitbit One does not have GPS or a heart rate monitor), which is my main form of exercise. The Apple Watch, especially when paired with an app like Strava, is much better for cycling. The iPhone's GPS records the distance and the watch's heart rate monitor records the intensity. A blue-tooth enabled cyclometer would be even more accurate though, and it would capture cadence. I would go that route if I still raced, but I don't so I don't need that level of accuracy. In fact I just use the Apple Watch workout app to record my bike rides. I gave apps like Strava and try. They are impressive (especially for recording the elevation climbed) but again I am not a competitive athlete. I just want to track how much general exercise and activity I am getting, and the Apple Watch plus iPhone is working well for me.
Sean