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Stereo Bluetooth?!

sassenach74 said:
Stereo bluetooth (A2DP) means the sound will be in stereo through the bluetooth headset

EDR means Enhanced Data Rate, which I believe is 3Mbit/s

Hope that helps.
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How is 3Mbit/s any useful if all you can do with bluetooth is to receive calls. I`d really thought Apple would implement A2DP via a firmware upgrade within a few months of launch. But thats what I thought bout copy/paste, MMS, video recording and a lot of other stuff. None of this has been completed as of yet. Apple is slow.
 
ICEBreaker said:
I have had the N95 since the day it was launched. I would really love a touch screen, however, I will not be trading DOWN.

5MP Carl Zeiss Camera - Not sure what the new iPhone will be like, but if it's still a 2MP camera, then it's pretty rubbish. What's the point of marketing so much about sharing photos, if the photos aren't high quality? It's got to have at least 3MP to be on par with the industry norm.

A2DP - The absence of this is almost on the verge of being idiotic since it costs ever so little to implement and is almost the norm nowadays.

To me, these two are "must have items". Seems like I won't be getting the new IPhone then. Shame. I'll wait for the next version in 2 year's time.
Click to expand...

+1
But also,
640x480 30fps video - I use it a lot for taking video clips of the ankle biter at play.

I won't be changing my N95 for a good while yet, it seems.
 
I bet the reason why they haven't implemented yet is trying to make the battery drain acceptable. Also A2DP uses lossy compression, which means the sound quality is worse, especially when used to listen to other lossy codecs like AAC and MP3 (the music would be encoded twice, which is always bad for sound quality).

It appears there is a lossless bluetooth stereo codec being developed, although it doesn't appear to be out yet.

http://www.intomobile.com/2007/08/0...udio-codec-soundabout-lossless-from-oina.html

I imagine once that is out and assuming the sound quality is acceptable, Apple will release an update to add it to the iPhone.
 
chrisgeleven said:
I bet the reason why they haven't implemented yet is trying to make the battery drain acceptable. Also A2DP uses lossy compression, which means the sound quality is worse, especially when used to listen to other lossy codecs like AAC and MP3 (the music would be encoded twice, which is always bad for sound quality).

It appears there is a lossless bluetooth stereo codec being developed, although it doesn't appear to be out yet.

http://www.intomobile.com/2007/08/0...udio-codec-soundabout-lossless-from-oina.html

I imagine once that is out and assuming the sound quality is acceptable, Apple will release an update to add it to the iPhone.
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You are naive.

Apple crippled the ipods so that you can't get digital spdif signals off of it --- unless the dock manufacturer pays Apple a king's ransom in licensing fee in order to get an authentication from the ipod's authentication chip.

http://www.stereophile.com/news/010408wadia/

If the dock manufacturer doesn't pay the licensing fee --- then it's only analog out for the ipod dock.

That's how the ipod/iphone accessory world works.
 
I don't think the accessory argument will hold up. With the original iPhone you had to use special 3.5mm headphones as Apple recessed the headphone jack. Now they have made it flush mounted so you can use any 3.5mm headphones. So someone explain to me what the difference is between wired universal headphones and wireless universal headphones???

Second, the only other thing I could possibly think of is Apple may be creating a new Bluetooth profile. This is just a shot in the dark, but who knows.
 
samab said:
chrisgeleven said:
I bet the reason why they haven't implemented yet is trying to make the battery drain acceptable. Also A2DP uses lossy compression, which means the sound quality is worse, especially when used to listen to other lossy codecs like AAC and MP3 (the music would be encoded twice, which is always bad for sound quality).

It appears there is a lossless bluetooth stereo codec being developed, although it doesn't appear to be out yet.

http://www.intomobile.com/2007/08/02...from-oina.html

I imagine once that is out and assuming the sound quality is acceptable, Apple will release an update to add it to the iPhone.
Click to expand...
You are naive.

Apple crippled the ipods so that you can't get digital spdif signals off of it --- unless the dock manufacturer pays Apple a king's ransom in licensing fee in order to get an authentication from the ipod's authentication chip.

http://www.stereophile.com/news/010408wadia/

If the dock manufacturer doesn't pay the licensing fee --- then it's only analog out for the ipod dock.

That's how the ipod/iphone accessory world works.
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I think your link actually shows that Chris was not being naive at all. Right now A2DP headsets do two things:
  • uses non-lossless compression to transmit data further lowering the sound quality of MP3/AAC based compression. Compared to the iPod Classic, the iPhone's storage space (which is also intended to hold applications and video) is still small and so I would guess there are few people using lossless compression for their iPhone music.
  • provides an alternative to the white Apple earbuds removing an important part of Apple's branding in the wild. Yes, now you can use any analogue headphones you like with your iPhone, but I don't think that changes how important the white earbuds are to Apple--not only have they been an important part of their print and television advertising since the first iPod, but they provide a way for consumers to spot Apple music players in the wild (I think four or five years ago Steve made some comment about liking how he sees the white earbuds everywhere he goes.

I realize some people would like to have the right/ability to listen to music at whatever crappy level of fidelity they would like, but after reading what you posted about Apple licensing authentication technology I think it makes a lot of sense that they would not license authentication for stereo bluetooth unless it was both a lossless technology and was on par with Apple's industrial design sense.
 
thevibesman said:
I realize some people would like to have the right/ability to listen to music at whatever crappy level of fidelity they would like, but after reading what you posted about Apple licensing authentication technology I think it makes a lot of sense that they would not license authentication for stereo bluetooth unless it was both a lossless technology and was on par with Apple's industrial design sense.
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No such thing as lossless --- because your original source is encoded in a lossy mp3 codec. The only way to minimize codec-to-codec losses --- is to have the actual mp3 codec (and aac codec) built into the bluetooth headphone.

But then you have to pay codec licensing fees for both codecs on the headphone.

There is a company that is selling a proprietary bluetooth codec that claims to sound great --- but it's a proprietary product, which means your average bluetooth headphone can't support it.

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1759,2164573,00.asp

It's all about money, nothing to do with sound fidelity.
 
thevibesman said:
[...] provides an alternative to the white Apple earbuds removing an important part of Apple's branding in the wild. [...]

[..] I think it makes a lot of sense that they would not license authentication for stereo bluetooth unless it was both a lossless technology and was on par with Apple's industrial design sense.
Click to expand...

I won't claim to be right, since we are all just speculating Apple's intentions, but my opinion differs from yours. Apple is known for innovation in how users relate to technology as well as its business model. It is not known for giving high-end specification products. I am in no way saying Apple products are low-quality, just that they are not at the high-end range either.

I find it highly unlikely that Apple is foregoing A2DP simply because the technology uses lossy compression. By your logic, the iPhone shouldn't have a 2MP camera either. Nor should the first iteration be using EDGE. Frankly, the majority of people who listen to music on the go are not going to complain about the lossy aspect of A2DP, and music puritans can always get out their platinum plated wired Shure headphones. If A2DP is good enough for Sony, it's good enough for Apple.

Speaking of headphones, those standard white ear buds are not exactly high end models either. In fact, they are pretty bad quality. So it doesn't seem to be as if the iPhone is meant to target music enthusiasts. It's mean for the masses, just like most of Apple's product lines.

Secondly, thank goodness we can use 3rd party earphones. I personally couldn't stand whose white ear buds. First of all, if Apple values offering choices in colours (which they do), they should give us a choice of black ear bus for those who are more conservative. Secondly, no one uses Y-cords any more. They are so inconvenient. The rest of the world has been using the behind-the-neck cords since last decade. And with so much noise in the city, most decent ear phones are in-ear noise isolation types. If Apple can't even get up to industry norm specifications, it better just let a 3rd party step in. Therefore, it's time Apple allowed 3rd party A2DP ear phones. The only reason it is holding back is because of its business model of exclusivity and proprietary products, and it goes to great lengths to be anti-interoperative.
 
ICEBreaker said:
>Originally Posted by samab
It's all about money, nothing to do with sound fidelity.<
Exactly! That has been ingrained into Apple's business model since its early history.
Click to expand...

That's just crazy talk. A business model that has as its goal to make money? Why, those villains.
 
sassenach74 said:
Stereo bluetooth (A2DP) means the sound will be in stereo through the bluetooth headset

EDR means Enhanced Data Rate, which I believe is 3Mbit/s

Hope that helps.
Click to expand...

so A2DP is better than EDR? how so? and also can we play itunes song from Iphone thru bluetooth headset? we probably can but you guys are saying stereo bluetooth A2DP will sound better than bluetooth EDR? :confused:
 
edtorious said:
so A2DP is better than EDR? how so? and also can we play itunes song from Iphone thru bluetooth headset? we probably can but you guys are saying stereo bluetooth A2DP will sound better than bluetooth EDR? :confused:
Click to expand...

Dude. I dont think you read the thread at all...

You can't play ANYTHING from the iPhone wirlessly... (technically)... they sell bluetooth dock adapters but thats not what the thread is about..

The question I have is Can the SDK be used to support A2DP?
I'm guessing that it wont give the program access to the bluetooth chip right?
 
stevin said:
The question I have is Can the SDK be used to support A2DP?
I'm guessing that it wont give the program access to the bluetooth chip right?
Click to expand...

Right. Pretty sure the folks who do all that spiffy unlocking stuff, who have figured out video recording and MMS, would have done a Bluetooth upgrade by now, if it was possible.
 
slapguts said:
Right. Pretty sure the folks who do all that spiffy unlocking stuff, who have figured out video recording and MMS, would have done a Bluetooth upgrade by now, if it was possible.
Click to expand...

its the chip not the programing. The chip is not capable of sending stereo signals. its not that the programing doesn't allow it. oh and i think the SDK does allow or access to the bluetooth chip.
 
Fonzijr1964 said:
its the chip not the programing. The chip is not capable of sending stereo signals. its not that the programing doesn't allow it. oh and i think the SDK does allow or access to the bluetooth chip.
Click to expand...

Do a quick search. All Bluetooth chips are reverse compatible. Its just a software update away. The current chip is quite capable of EDR, A2DP, 2.0.
 
Donz0r said:
A2DP can be unlocked via a Firmware update correct? Not just by software?
Click to expand...

Yup, simple little update, and we'd be rocking out wireless. But Apple needs to do it. And the won't, for some strange, virtually unknown reason.

I'd love to see the guys at Gizmodo do an article on this little issue.
 
More bad news.

The software Apple licensed for their Bluetooth chip is "Blue Magic" from a company called Open Interface. So the codecs and such have already been written, licensed, and paid for by Apple. Which leads me to believe A2DP was 100% intentionally disabled.
 
samab said:
You will NEVER see stereo bluetooth on the iphone or the ipod.

The reason --- Apple makes a LOT of MONEY on "ipod/iphone certified" accessories. If you can beam music from a ipod or a iphone to headphones or speakers via INDUSTRY STANDARD bluetooth --- then Apple will lose a lot of those licensing fees for stuff like JBL ipod docks.

http://reviews.cnet.com/4520-6449_7-6799489-1.html
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What?

How many wired headphones can I use that are not iPhone certified. Single ear Bluetooth headsets? Where's the difference? Apple's not going to go broke by allowing A2DP headsets to pair with the iPhone when so many people use third-party earbuds and BT headsets already.

Also, there are plenty of details about Bluetooth that are not mentioned on the website. I don't see where the specs say, "supports Headset Profile (HSP)" but Apple sure a heck makes a bluetooth headset for iPhone. In fact, it doesn't mention any supported profiles. The exclusion of A2DP on the website means nothing and it's inclusion would not necessarily be worth mentioning at WWDC.

And for those asking, yes Bluetooth 2.0 + EDR can handle A2DP via software upgrade.
 
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