Steve Jobs explains why there is still no Blu-Ray

[CaptainChunk]

Anyone ever download a movie from iTunes music store in HD? What's the quality like? Bitrate? Do they do 5/7.1?

The average bitrate of an iTunes HD download is around 4Mbps and are 720p. Some have 5.1 encoded Dolby Digital (AC-3) tracks, but getting to work can be frustrating.

In contrast, most Blu-ray movies are 40Mbps average bitrate at 1080p and have lossless audio tracks.

As stated before, Apple's resistance to Blu-ray is merely in defense of the iTunes store. From a business standpoint, it makes sense to their bottom line. As much as it sucks, I don't see this changing soon.

 

[TH3D4RKKN1GH7]

40? More like Mid Teens to Mid Thirties most lying in 20 land. I wish 40 were the average lol. 4Mbps is too low for me to adopt iTunes movie format. There are HD rips with higher bitrates... don't ask how I know that...

 

[pika2000]

Well, I don't blame him. To be honest, I hardly purchase a blu-ray movie anymore (I used to grab blu-ray releases for most movies just because I want to use my PS3). In fact, I rather see Apple take out the optical drives out of their laptops and put is SSDs in RAID and/or more battery. I want convenience, and blu-ray is not giving me the convenience that I want. Imo Jobs is buying time as internet bandwidth is increasing, albeit slowly. Really though, other than the PS3, I have no other devices that use blu-ray. Other than movies, what other use for blu-ray? I have yet to see a single person that burn blu-ray data. Everybody are simply buying external hard-drives. Obviously there are exceptions on the pro market, but with more and more people having iPads and iPhones, Apple would want to focus in delivering content for those devices. Then there's the DRM crap and the whole licensing issue that I'm sure Apple have no interest in investing.

As for quality, remember what people were saying about compressed music? That it will never replace Audio CD? Well, I don't remember the last time I bought a Audio CD. Other than audiophiles, people find downloaded music to be good enough. Even compressed music to download is facing its own challenge, as some people now are simply using Pandora for their music. The same thing will happen with movies. Once the alternative and more convenient form is good enough, regular people won't care.

 

[aarond12]

Blu-ray

For those who "need" to send a Blu-ray disc to their family, did you know you can burn HD content onto a DVD disc? I'm not saying it's the simplest thing to do, and it might be nice if Apple brought that capability to iDVD, but it works fine on my PS3.

Likewise, creating HD movies from iMovie and burning the raw M4V file onto a DVD will allow your family to view the movie in HD on their Mac/PC/PS3.

YouTube's HD capability is pretty good and is fine for home-movie-quality videos. I wish iMovie would export in 1080i/p instead of just 720p...

-Aaron-

 

[albusseverus]

I think it's time for the Blu-ray Disc Association to politely ask Apple to leave.

Apple obviously have no intention of promoting the technology, or even supporting it at all.

There's only so much hypocrisy anyone should have to deal with and the BDA does itself a more damage by allowing Apple to continue to be a member in name only, than any loss of credibility without Apple. If anything, it's Apple that lacks credibility in this matter and the BDA has won full public acceptance in the face of Apple's aggressive stance against Blu-ray.

Jobs joked that nobody used discs anymore when he introduced iMovie '08 and it's clear his bloodymindedness in this matter continues to this day. He seriously expects us to download 10 or 20 GB HD files from YouTube, or preferably his iTunes. Don't kid yourselves Apple is in any way considering Blu-ray. He's clueless and prefers to fiddle with his NewtonPad all day.

Time for the BDA to grow a pair and demand Apple support Blu-ray or leave.

 

[Plutonius]

People don't go out and buy DVD players anymore, they buy Blu-Ray players.

I always love when people post unsubstantiated statements.

 

[NoSmokingBandit]

I always love when people post unsubstantiated statements.

I love it when people make unsubstantiated claims that someone else's statement is unsubstantiated.


See what i did there?

 

[steviem]

I want to get away from physically distributed media. The only content I buy on physical media are PS3 games. Never touched a Blu-Ray movie, let alone slotted one in my PS3.

All of my movies I stream to the PS3.

 

[409227]

I love it when people make unsubstantiated claims that someone else's statement is unsubstantiated.


See what i did there?

Thank you.

Saying that people go out and buy DVD players nowadays is like saying that people four years ago went out and bought VHS players instead of DVD. Uh, DVD was well established four years ago, and VHS wasn't even really in production anymore.

Nowadays, everyone owns a DVD player. Blu-Ray is just the next thing to come along. Instead of focusing on what Blu-Ray hasn't done yet, Apple should be focusing on what it HAS done. It's infiltrated the market, world wide, like it or not, Jobs. Blu-Rays are everywhere, and new HDTVs are specifically designed to play them.

 

[KeithPratt]

Saying that people go out and buy DVD players nowadays is like saying that people four years ago went out and bought VHS players instead of DVD.

I disagree. My Grandma bought a DVD player about five years ago. If I mentioned Blu-ray to her today she wouldn't have a clue what I was talking about.

The inclusion of Blu-ray has purpose beyond watching Star Trek on an iMac. If you work in video production you'll find some (perhaps not many, but some) clients asking for it. And you'd probably find it handy for archiving tapelessly-acquired footage.

But I guess you can't rely on Apple for everything.

 

[Plutonius]

I love it when people make unsubstantiated claims that someone else's statement is unsubstantiated.


See what i did there?

Yep, you stated a claim as an absolute with no supporting evidence. If you really think your claim is true, how about at least posting some links supporting your claim. Otherwise, how can we take your arguments seriously.

 

[409227]

Yep, you stated a claim as an absolute with no supporting evidence. If you really think your claim is true, how about at least posting some links supporting your claim. Otherwise, how can we take your arguments seriously.

Yeah... you sort of started it...

You said my claim was unsubstantiated...
and never bothered to explain/cite why it's unsubstantiated.

But you felt free to say that the guy who defended me was somehow also unsubstantiated.... again without explaining why HE was unsubstantiated.

Let it be known that anyone on Macrumors other than Plutonius is required by law to look up/cite claims made.

Most everyone on this site loves Apple computers, but at least some of us have the courage to ask Apple for something other than a faster processor chip and a different casing design.

 

[nuckinfutz]

Wake up, Jobs. You can't protect your beloved subpar iTunes forever, and Blu-Ray is by no means the next failed thing like laserdisc. It isn't going anywhere anytime soon. The least you could do is make it an option for people on your desktop lineup like the iMac.

People don't go out and buy DVD players anymore, they buy Blu-Ray players.

Pray tell what other choice consumers have in physical media? Either you're migrating to Blu-ray or you're doing some flavor of Video on Demand (VoD)

Every new HDTV is now specifically designed to handle high definition content, i.e. namely blu-ray movies.

Licensing has been cheaper and easier for about 15 months now.

Costs are also down.

Or HD content from computers or Cable Companies or Satellite companies. In fact more people have broadcast HD than Blu-ray players.

Blu-Ray sales are still rising, and hard media isn't fading away as quickly as you think it is.

Quit stalling, quit trying to buy time, quit trying to divert attention from the main point by bringing up something as dumb and irrelevant as youtube.

Give us the OPTION of Blu-Ray playback.

You can't demand that your customers do it your inferior way or the highway.

Actually he can.

The reason why more people aren't in an uproar is because the average size display on a computer is under 24". Where is the pressing need to watch HD video on a display so small?

Most of the Blu-ray players sold that you mention and going under TV consoles hooked to HDTV as they should be.

Blu-ray ray on Macs is a "nice to have" but not a must have for many that is evident.

 

[409227]

Pray tell what other choice consumers have in physical media? Either you're migrating to Blu-ray or you're doing some flavor of Video on Demand (VoD)



Or HD content from computers or Cable Companies or Satellite companies. In fact more people have broadcast HD than Blu-ray players.




Actually he can.

The reason why more people aren't in an uproar is because the average size display on a computer is under 24". Where is the pressing need to watch HD video on a display so small?

Most of the Blu-ray players sold that you mention and going under TV consoles hooked to HDTV as they should be.

Blu-ray ray on Macs is a "nice to have" but not a must have for many that is evident.

Please see my very last comment regarding fanboys.

The bottom line is that Jobs is clinging to inferior 720p resolution, instead of upping it to full HD 1080p resolution.
Bottom.
Line.

 

[nuckinfutz]

Please see my very last comment regarding fanboys.

The bottom line is that Jobs is clinging to inferior 720p resolution, instead of upping it to full HD 1080p resolution.
Bottom.
Line.

Calling people fanboys is what people do when their argument lacks teeth.

720p resolution inferior? So tell me this if I have this 720p JVC camera

http://pro.jvc.com/prof/attributes/features.jsp?model_id=MDL101642

does that mean it's automatically inferior to this "Full HD" 1080p camera?

http://everio.jvc.com/lineup/gz-hd500/

I mean why should I spend over $3500 on the JVC Pro camera when it's "only" 720p when the Everio Full HD is less than $1000.

 

[409227]

Calling people fanboys is what people do when their argument lacks teeth.

720p resolution inferior? So tell me this if I have this 720p JVC camera

http://pro.jvc.com/prof/attributes/features.jsp?model_id=MDL101642

does that mean it's automatically inferior to this "Full HD" 1080p camera?

http://everio.jvc.com/lineup/gz-hd500/

I mean why should I spend over $3500 on the JVC Pro camera when it's "only" 720p when the Everio Full HD is less than $1000.

And trying to deflect the shameful title of fanboy is a symptom of being one.

Sigh, the entire point of this thread is to question why Jobs is refusing to add Blu-Ray to Apple computers. I don't care what YOU PERSONALLY have.

Progress in visual technology demands bigger/better resolution in any case. But no, it's okay... let's stick with 720p resolution. It's smaller than 1080p, and hey, maybe we should just stick with 480p like we have for DVDs. And while we're at it, why don't we just go back to VHS, because who's to say that it's inferior to DVD?

In all my ramblings, I'm trying to emphasize progress. If you can't concede to that then you've got problems.

 

[TH3D4RKKN1GH7]

Calling people fanboys is what people do when their argument lacks teeth.

720p resolution inferior? So tell me this if I have this 720p JVC camera

http://pro.jvc.com/prof/attributes/features.jsp?model_id=MDL101642

does that mean it's automatically inferior to this "Full HD" 1080p camera?

http://everio.jvc.com/lineup/gz-hd500/

I mean why should I spend over $3500 on the JVC Pro camera when it's "only" 720p when the Everio Full HD is less than $1000.

Well that argument is broken as all hell because there's alot more to that pro camera than there is to that consumer video camera. 1080p is BETTER than 720p, but in terms of camera technology its not the sole determining factor. Ergonomics, sensor size, optics, bitrate, media solutions, output options (HD-SI, HDMI, XLR inputs) all go into a camera purchase. Try that argument on someone less educated.

 

[nuckinfutz]

Well that argument is broken as all hell because there's alot more to that pro camera than there is to that consumer video camera. 1080p is BETTER than 720p, but in terms of camera technology its not the sole determining factor. Ergonomics, optics, bitrate, output options (HD-SI, HDMI, XLR inputs) all go into a camera purchase. Try that argument on someone less educated.

Your education and its efficacy is debatable.

Ok 1080p24 at 5Mbps vs 720p24 at 15Mbps. If fed through the same camera..which is likely to look better?

And trying to deflect the shameful title of fanboy is a symptom of being one.

Sigh, the entire point of this thread is to question why Jobs is refusing to add Blu-Ray to Apple computers. I don't care what YOU PERSONALLY have.

Progress in visual technology demands bigger/better resolution in any case. But no, it's okay... let's stick with 720p resolution. It's smaller than 1080p, and hey, maybe we should just stick with 480p like we have for DVDs. And while we're at it, why don't we just go back to VHS, because who's to say that it's inferior to DVD?

In all my ramblings, I'm trying to emphasize progress. If you can't concede to that then you've got problems.

Red I know man you're preaching to the choir. I'd love to have Blu-ray but I think Steve has drawn a line in the sand here. I just get a kick out of the resolution wars. Bitrate starved 1080p can easily look worse than high bitrate 720p.

The next 5 years should be interesting.

 

[TH3D4RKKN1GH7]

Your education and its efficacy is debatable.

Ok 1080p24 at 5Mbps vs 720p24 at 15Mbps. If fed through the same camera..which is likely to look better?

Well 720p will most likely look better because there's more information in the image due to the higher bitrate. We're not talking about a gimped 1080p vs 720p. We're talking about them as if they were on equal bitrate terms, you've got to compare them both at their best. 1080p is better, it's not like comparing 4K to IMAX or something, but 1080p is superior.

 

[Plutonius]

Yeah... you sort of started it...

You said my claim was unsubstantiated...
and never bothered to explain/cite why it's unsubstantiated.

But you felt free to say that the guy who defended me was somehow also unsubstantiated.... again without explaining why HE was unsubstantiated.

Let it be known that anyone on Macrumors other than Plutonius is required by law to look up/cite claims made.

God, the Apple Fanboys are so loyal to Jobs it's like Apple can do no wrong.

Most everyone on this site loves Apple computers, but at least some of us have the courage to ask Apple for something other than a faster processor chip and a different casing design.

I could care less which side you take in the argument. What I do get annoyed by is people making absolute claims without backing up their comments. You could have said "I believe that .... " but instead you made the comment as absolute fact. I then asked you to support your comment and all as you could do is start throwing around "Fan Boy" comments.

It's up to the person who makes the absolute claim to back up their claim. I suggest that you edit your original post with "I believe ..." or at least put in a couple links that support your position. Otherwise, admit you don't know what you are talking about.

 

[xStep]

I wish iMovie would export in 1080i/p instead of just 720p...

It can. If you are having an issue, post a new thread asking how.

 

[NoSmokingBandit]

Yep, you stated a claim as an absolute with no supporting evidence. If you really think your claim is true, how about at least posting some links supporting your claim. Otherwise, how can we take your arguments seriously.

If you read the history of the thread the only post i made was the snarky comment toward you. If you want to cry foul and say someone else is making stuff up you need to present proof of that or you are guilty of the same unsubstantiated spreading of BS that happens all too often on the internet. Saying someone is wrong because they have no proof yet offering no proof yourself will get us nowhere.

 

[Mac'nCheese]

If you read the history of the thread the only post i made was the snarky comment toward you. If you want to cry foul and say someone else is making stuff up you need to present proof of that or you are guilty of the same unsubstantiated spreading of BS that happens all too often on the internet. Saying someone is wrong because they have no proof yet offering no proof yourself will get us nowhere.

So.... does that mean no one can recommend a good blu ray burner for me to use when I start editing HD videos on my imac?

 

[sarge]

The decision to exclude Blu-ray from the mac is frustrating (tho even my year and a half old Panasonic unit will not play any of the current crop of BR movies even with the latest firmware...) We are beholden to the engineers, manufacturers, content owners, and distributors. Still when it works it's a beautiful thing, to wit:

I raved to acquaintances about BR edition of T Malicks THE NEW WORLD ( I'm talking about editors and DPs) and they all claimed it was shot in HD and complained of the 'video' look -turns out it was shot on 70mm! To a person they would have preferred the SD version...

 

[faustfire]

Your education and its efficacy is debatable.

Ok 1080p24 at 5Mbps vs 720p24 at 15Mbps. If fed through the same camera..which is likely to look better?

Are you kidding me? 4k/24 at at 5Mpbs is going to look worse than 720p24 at 15Mbps as well, does that mean that 720 isn't inferior to 4k? Bitrate is different than resolution, fyi.

Your argument is nonsensical.