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Steve Jobs Interested in Wi-Fi Sharing

I was recently walking the streets of New York ...

waiting for the bus, and heard some people that were standing nearby, they were talking where Steve and the folks in Cupertino, and the people at Google, ... "sending up a couple of iGoogle-Satellites orbiting earth." :eek: I turned to look at these characters, they then said something about stock prices going through the roof, so I stepped closer, to hear them better, and they then moved farther away from me, so I didn't hear anything more.

:cool:

Has anyone else heard any rumors of Apple and Google, and a couple satellites orbiting earth in the near future? Maybe that's what this wifi talk is all about.
 
From what I know, FON provides the router, isp, and a private network for you with a public network as well. They install it so it benefits the most people in your small area. You pay nothing and everyone wins! Not sure how FON makes their money though.
 
Fon & Bt

In the UK BT (the incumbent Telco) have recently launched a FON partnership to share your BT Broadband connection. They're hoping to sign up thousands of users onto the scheme, I believe it can be used with existing BT Home Hub routers so there's no investment required from an end user point of view.

Edit: http://www.btfon.com/
 
Wikipedia says

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FON

FON has also signed various agreements with top Internet Service Providers (ISPs) around the world to actively promote the FON Service to their subscribers. Some of these ISPs include British Telecom, Time Warner Cable, Neuf Cegetel, Labs2, BB Excite, TIC, Scarlet, Manitu, Elitel, Erenis, Interoute, iBand, Interlink, Isao.net, Brastel, Seednet, CNS, and Interway.

Because not all ISPs allow their subscribers to share their broadband connections, FON requires its Foneros, prior to joining FON, to read their ISPs’ terms of use to make sure they are in fact allowed to share their connection. To date, no ISP has publicly announced that they will actively penalize their subscribers who participate in the FON Community.
Click to expand...

There's also a list of pro and against ISPs there too.

I like there revenue sharing scheme and two user types: Linuses and Bills!

Unlike a Linus, though, a Bill receives money from FON when Aliens purchase FON Passes that FON sells on the Bill’s FON Spot. Thus, Bills receive a bit of money from the sale of FON Passes and also get free roaming. Any Linus can become a Bill by simply changing her profile in the FON User Zone and registering with PayPal.
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"B-but, how would Apple make money off of this?"

Thank goodness Steve Jobs is a free thinker. You can be sure if he were a straitlaced conservative.... the products and ideas and philosophy behind Apple would be humdrum. Sorry to those offended; it's almost fact. Unbounded minds are progressives. Think artists.
 
WiFi is a mess right now in big cities. Whenever I'm in Honolulu I'm overwhelmed with dozens of hotspots in any one location. It is impossible to identify which ones I might want to use just based on the names in the list. Most of them are pay as you go type things but who knows how reputable most of them are. You have to join them and try to browse somewhere and get redirected to their home page to even see who they are. Sometimes the hotel I am staying at has free access but if not I'll usually just buy access directly from the hotel and be done with it.

Even though EDGE is slow, the one nice thing is having access anywhere you have a cell signal and not having to worry about giving some questionable outfit $5 for an hour just to send ore retrieve an important email.
 
Would that mean he'll do free WiFi in a certain city like.... CUPERTINO :). Hopefully he helps us out here (yes, I live in Cupertino haha).

Would this be a thing like Google did for Mountain View or a thing just for iPhones/iPod Touches?
 
I've read of plenty of ISPs that have a problem with FON, though I haven't heard of any that have actually taken any action - just saying that users aren't allowed to share their bandwidth in this way. I doubt any of them will actually do anything and will end up joining up in some form.

As others have mentioned, BT (the biggest provider of broadband in the UK) have signed a deal with FON. Not sure of the exact details but it looks like it basically gives the green light for their customers to share with FON and they're encouraging non-customers to sign up as well. I think you get access to all the BT hotspots as well, which makes it a far better deal.

Google and Skype are investors in FON and it wouldn't be a big surprise if some other big companies signed up as well. Maybe Apple will invest as well, maybe with some kind of deal to give iPhone users access.

Good news for everyone I reckon, its moving us closer and closer to cheap and easy WiFi access all across the globe - which is just a matter of time.
 
BT's deal..

is already included within it's Broadband packages. To get unlimited wifi at hotspots - subject to 500mins fair use I believe - you have to subscribe to top package.

It takes a max of 512kb from the end users' connection and shares it with whoever is connected at the time, ie 1 user 512kb, 10 users 51.2 kb etc.

It is however over-ridden if the end user is utilising the connection fully at the time as their traffic is given priority of users they are sharing with.

It supposedly is secure as visitor traffic is seperated from home encrypted network via a separate channel.

More info over at:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/10/05/bt_fon_wimax/
 
megfilmworks said:
From what I know, FON provides the router, isp, and a private network for you with a public network as well. They install it so it benefits the most people in your small area. You pay nothing and everyone wins! Not sure how FON makes their money though.
Click to expand...

Yeah, that's kinda what I said on page two, and I even explained how they made their money. ;)

@irun5k
On Fon's homepage you can type in your current address and see if and where the Fon networks are.
 
Hugin777 said:
What if someone uses your connection to hack into the Pentagon, or share child porn, or something like that ?

I guess you would get all the blame, right ?
Click to expand...

Now days I guess some government thugs would break into your house and you'd "disappear" but before there was a legal concept that organizations like the US Postal Service and the phone company could not be charged with a crime if people used their service to plot a crime because the carriers had no roll in creating the information they carry. You would be part of a large public network and treated the same.
 
megfilmworks said:
From what I know, FON provides the router, isp, and a private network for you with a public network as well. They install it so it benefits the most people in your small area. You pay nothing and everyone wins! Not sure how FON makes their money though.
Click to expand...

I think the basic plan is that if you grow the pie everyone's slice gets bigger.
In other words Google can sell more ads if there are even more people using the Internet or the same people using it more. Universal free WiFi would certainly make the Internet bigger and maybe even allow different uses of it. It is easy to see what in it for Skype and why they are investing in FON.
 
JMax1 said:
It seems like it wouldn't be free, right? At least not exactly. I think you're still paying for whatever YOUR service is, so the cable comps aren't really losing revenue, right? You're just opening up your own network to others, and then others are opening it up to you - kind of like gift exchanging, you have to send to receive.

And of course Jobs would be up for it - wifi everywhere is so much easier and faster than 3G!
Click to expand...

It's not apparent you have to give to receive at all. Besides, yes, the cable companies is losing revenue since you would be using the service at a location that you normally cannot get it. Regardless of whether you think it's fair or not, they are losing revenue
 
Guys, I would love to see something like this as much as any of you, but it won't happen in the USA as long as the cellular industry owns or has significant stakes in consumer broadband internet delivery. There is way too much profit (way, way too much) profit for them to ever allow free communications that could undermine cellular revenue streams.

A few replied to my earlier, similar post that broadband user agreements might not block this kind of thing (FON), but just follow the money. If the US had any kind of readily available wireless network available just about everywhere, the "crowd" would eventually switch from paying for those cell contracts to buying wifi/wimax phones and using a SKYPE-like solution for nearly free calls.

Even if some broadband provider doesn't have it in their user agreement now, the amendment prohibiting this use would come adding it to the terms of service. Without the ability to make more profit from supporting a concept like FON, US business won't allow it to happen. Who particularly? My best guess is the cell phone companies because they would stand to lose the most revenue.

You don't have 4 cell phone kiosks in every mall (we have 2 separate ATT cellular stores in our local mall, and they aren't probably more than 75 meters apart), and a cell phone seller or two in every strip mall because margins in that business are slim. All that hard cost to be everywhere is paid for with cash, which is a chunk of the total take from the cell phone industry.

Any competitor that pops up that threatens that industry with lower cost (Vonage for example) is attacked in every way possible (Vonage patent infringement suits for example) to preserve the lucrative cash flows of phone service that costs more than $24.99 per month. It is the cell phone companies that fight city governments to prevent city-wide wifi from being installed. Was it Verizon that made a deal with the state of Pennsylvania that only Philly could have a free wifi network when the state was moving toward creating city-wide networks in many its cities?

Some of you seem to be separating the two- apparently thinking of cellular business and broadband business and usage as two very different things-- that it might be possible that a concept like FON could become mainstream in the USA. But, in the end, free wifi/wimax over large areas of the US means a lot of people could drop big cellular costs and make their calls for "free" via SKYPE/Vonage-type arrangements. It will not be more profitable for ATT or Verizon, etc. to allow this to happen.

Let it get some legs in the US and it will go the way of the original Napster, experience the legal attacks like Vonage, and result in the companies jacking broadband rates up (probably way up) to make the "free" widespread internet access impractical for a possible cell phone replacement.

Bottom line: as a government initiative (even with government bureaucracy and pork barrel spending), it wouldn't be that costly to do wimax for the whole USA, giving free internet and free communications for all. While it is easy to argue that both of those becoming free would be an enormous boon to all businesses that are fueled by communications (which is just about all businesses), let's see how long it takes for that to actually happen. Probably right after FON-like concepts actually become widespread.
 
FON is a joke, and a borderline scam, BUT - if Apple got involved, it just might work.

Apple would sort out the mapping problem (there is no effective map of WiFi hotspots) by some Google maps hack maybe.....also, it would work for the iPhone, whereas now they are trying to make it work for laptops, which is silly - imagine sitting on a garden wall, trying to connect in the rain, in some out of the way suburb, laptop in hand, shady characters strolling towards you....

But with the iPhone and clever mapping - that makes a little more sense.

FON = crap.

FON with Apple in control = might have something.

As for the notion of Cellular co.'s stopping it - just how would they do that? Once you have paid for your access at home, its yours to do what you wish with it.
I doubt that skype phones will ever do well, but we are talking wifi access for the iPhone - check Google maps, check email quickly, etc. Its NOT heavy usage, and would take a TINY fraction of the bandwidth available.
 
Stella said:
I'm surprised there aren't cries from the american audience of "Communism".

Seriously.
Click to expand...

Instead of governments screwing up Marx's Utopian vision, now big Corporations are going to screw up Marx's Utopian vision!
Should be fun to watch.

Its the new 'monetized' communism - everyone gives a little bit of cash according to their needs and abilities, and Apple gets really rich!
 
Jetson said:
I wish there was some way to tell where Wi-Fi hotspots were located.

There doesn't seem to be any reliable mapping system or register or anything really. A few websites that aren't complete.

You kind of have to walk around like Mr. Magoo, hoping to run into a hotspot.
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Hi Jetson,

I work for FON in Madrid. We have developed our own FON Maps based on Google Maps. The maps display updated information on FON hotspots and their activity all around the world. We have more than 200,000 hotspots worldwide. Take a look at maps.fon.com.

We have also a Connection Manager for Nokia phones. The tool allows Nokia users to connect automatically to the nearest FON Spot it detects.

And there is more, we have also a Points of Interest service (POIs). This allows you to download FON Spots directly to your navigation device.

Also for more information on FON check out What's FON.(http://www.fon.com/en/info/whatsFon)

rdowns said:
Seems an interesting way of getting widespread wifi access. I keep reading about towns/villages/cities trying to do it and failing miserably.
Click to expand...

At FON, we have already succeed offering WiFi coverage in cities and neighborhoods. The poject ChuecaWiFi (www.chuecawifi.com) in Madrid’s hip Chueca neighborhood where we now have almost 90% FON WiFi coverage, the response on the street has been tremendous and people are connecting literally everywhere throughout Chueca.

The City of Geneva and FON have recently announced a joint project [http://www.geneve-fon.org/] to provide free WiFi access to the city’s residents and visitors.

Other neighborhood projects are following suit to replicate the Chueca experience: Munich (www.glockenbachviertel.com), Rome with Trastevere WiFi, Paris’ Quartier Numerique, San Francisco, Tokyo, Taipei, and Hong Kong. By the end of the year, we’re looking to offer great FON WiFi coverage within these areas

misfit356tsw said:
Does anyone know the nitty gritty details of how it works?
Click to expand...

Joining FON is very simple. You just need to connect the La Fonera, our WiFi router, and enjoy FREE WiFi everywhere.

We have designed the La Fonera to allow our members to share safely their Internet Connection with other FON Members. It creates two different WiFi signals. One for you and the other to be used by other Foneros.

elgruga said:
FON is a joke, and a borderline scam, BUT - if Apple got involved, it just might work.

Apple would sort out the mapping problem (there is no effective map of WiFi hotspots) by some Google maps hack maybe.....also, it would work for the iPhone, whereas now they are trying to make it work for laptops, which is silly - imagine sitting on a garden wall, trying to connect in the rain, in some out of the way suburb, laptop in hand, shady characters strolling towards you....

But with the iPhone and clever mapping - that makes a little more sense.

FON = crap.

FON with Apple in control = might have something.

As for the notion of Cellular co.'s stopping it - just how would they do that? Once you have paid for your access at home, its yours to do what you wish with it.
I doubt that skype phones will ever do well, but we are talking wifi access for the iPhone - check Google maps, check email quickly, etc. Its NOT heavy usage, and would take a TINY fraction of the bandwidth available.
Click to expand...

Sound weird you compare FON with crap, when telecom giants such British Telecom (BT), leading UK ISP, Neuf leading ISP in France, Time Warner, have signed partnerships with FON. With BT we have already created a joint community www.btfon.com......
 
JMax1 said:
It seems like it wouldn't be free, right? At least not exactly. I think you're still paying for whatever YOUR service is, so the cable comps aren't really losing revenue, right?
Click to expand...
Yes and no. Unless you lease a T1/T3, your network link is oversubscribed. For instance, the carrier may have 10 1.5M DSL customers share a single 1.5M T1 uplink. Typically, business customers are provisioned at 4:1 oversubscription. Residential customers are often oversubscribed at 10:1 or even 20:1. (This is one big reason why business DSL costs more than residential.)

The oversubscription works because a typical connection is idle most of the time, but when everybody tries to use the network at once, you get congestion and reduced throughput.

When a residential customer makes his connection available to the world at large, chances are that his usage will go up, impacting other customers' throughput. Yes, you're paying for your line, but there is an assumption that you won't be using all of the bandwidth all of the time. (This is also why residential customers usually have a "no servers" policy.)

The reciprocal nature of FON doesn't change anything. Sure, you're getting from others what you give out (assuming you travel a lot), but you're not necessarily getting from the same carrier. The numbers don't have to balance out for a single ISP. And this reciprocity doesn't do a thing about oversubscription issue.
JMax1 said:
And of course Jobs would be up for it - wifi everywhere is so much easier and faster than 3G!
Click to expand...
Not necessarily. A 3G interface goes straight to your carrier at full speed. Wi-Fi is throttled to the speed of the network it's attached to. My Wi-Fi router at home is attached to a 1.5M DSL line. A 3G connection can easily be faster than this (and I personally witnessed this using a Sprint PCMCIA card.)
 
I'm all for sharing my wifi, but with what "community" will it be shared? Only people I know? Or, just anyone who comes along and signed up on some website? Hmm..

I came across an interesting article here about sharing WiFi with your Facebook friends... that's an interesting idea...

And from what I gather, FON even uses some open-source software from Coova too...
 
Will FON have an application in the iphone sdk that automatically logs you in to the hotspots instead of forcing you to input it to the website with each fon hotspot you come across?
 
Yes it most certainly does.

Everyone will see the results of this collaboration tomorrow during the keynote.

T
 
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