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Steve Jobs was wrong about big phones. Was he wrong about stylus, too?

sinsin07 said:
Must not have any clue as to Apple and patents. Apple has many patents.


Most you will never see in production.


But by all means, please hold your breath on an Apple stylus.
Click to expand...


See right there you did make an assertion that Apple will not make a phone with a stylus...... No matter how much you deny it now....
I was trying to be nice...but just go away now.....
Not going to argue with you any more....so go ahead and post again so you can have the last word...I know you need it.....
 
It's a simpler question to ask what Steve Jobs was right about in the mobile space? Android exploded in the vacuum that Steve Job's initial wrongness created. Here are some highlights:

Steve Jobs was wrong about walled gardens
Steve Jobs was wrong about styli
Steve Jobs was wrong about screen size
Steve Jobs was wrong about third-party apps (he didn't want an app store)
Steve Jobs was wrong about multi-tasking
Steve Jobs was wrong about file management and file sharing
Steve Jobs was wrong about copy-and-paste
Steve Jobs was wrong about cell providers

And on and on and on.
 
jamezr said:
See right there you did make an assertion that Apple will not make a phone with a stylus...... No matter how much you deny it now....
I was trying to be nice...but just go away now.....
Not going to argue with you any more....so go ahead and post again so you can have the last word...I know you need it.....
Click to expand...
Sorry, that was just a real situation presented, not an assertation of anything.


My apologies if this has escaped you.


However, most patents never make it.


You equate seeing one patent as to something that will occur, as evidenced by the below:
arftech said:
A stylus will eventually come to Apple and the folks in this thread who said they'll never use it will.
http://www.patentlyapple.com/patently-apple/patents-smart-pens/
Click to expand...

You were shown that is not necessarily the case.


Know you will be back to take a peek, it's OK.
 
sinsin07 said:
Sorry, that was just a real situation presented, not an assertation of anything.


My apologies if this has escaped you.


However, most patents never make it.


You equate seeing one patent as to something that will occur, as evidenced by the below:


You were shown that is not necessarily the case.


Know you will be back to take a peek, it's OK.
Click to expand...

you just don't get it do you? really?? or are you just being this difficult on purpose. I don't care anything about any patents Apple has or ever will have. It was not part of my comments at all. You just assumed it.....do you know what happens we you assume? Well it happened to you......
 
jamezr said:
you just don't get it do you? really?? or are you just being this difficult on purpose. I don't care anything about any patents Apple has or ever will have. It was not part of my comments at all. You just assumed it.....do you know what happens we you assume? Well it happened to you......
Click to expand...
Ah my bad. Didn't realize you were poking your nose in.


If you didn't care you should of remained silent.
 
rrl said:
It's a simpler question to ask what Steve Jobs was right about in the mobile space? Android exploded in the vacuum that Steve Job's initial wrongness created. Here are some highlights:

Steve Jobs was wrong about walled gardens
Steve Jobs was wrong about styli
Steve Jobs was wrong about screen size
Steve Jobs was wrong about third-party apps (he didn't want an app store)
Steve Jobs was wrong about multi-tasking
Steve Jobs was wrong about file management and file sharing
Steve Jobs was wrong about copy-and-paste
Steve Jobs was wrong about cell providers

And on and on and on.
Click to expand...

Wow, all those wrongs sure did help to create one of the most valuable companies in the world. Imagine if he were right! Apple would rule the world!
 
Apple would be smart to include a stylus with future gen iPads. Maybe an iPad Pro? The Note line is popular with smartphones, but not with tablets, mainly due to price. But people are already paying premium for iPads. I could see people also using the iPad in place of a Wacom pad when using their desktops/laptops.
 
sinsin07 said:
Ah my bad. Didn't realize you were poking your nose in.


If you didn't care you should of remained silent.
Click to expand...

Its called the internet....this is a public forum....if you wanted your conversation to be private...then take to PM. Otherwise everyone is invited to participate.
 
LIVEFRMNYC said:
Apple would be smart to include a stylus with future gen iPads. Maybe an iPad Pro? The Note line is popular with smartphones, but not with tablets, mainly due to price. But people are already paying premium for iPads. I could see people also using the iPad in place of a Wacom pad when using their desktops/laptops.
Click to expand...

Samsung isn't the only stylus game in town. Newer, and very powerful offerings from Microsoft and Nvidia have built-in styli. This isn't a trend, this is things getting back to where they belong. Apple will fall in line. They'll go kicking and screaming, but they'll fall in line.

----------
appleii.c said:
Wow, all those wrongs sure did help to create one of the most valuable companies in the world. Imagine if he were right! Apple would rule the world!
Click to expand...

At the height of Windows awfulness Microsoft was one of the most valuable companies in the world. So...
 
rrl said:
At the height of Windows awfulness Microsoft was one of the most valuable companies in the world. So...
Click to expand...

Yes they were, But the alternatives at the time were even more awful.

No ones opinions are correct 100% of the time. Steve Jobs was no different. Personally I think of that list you gave, screen size is the only one he was truly wrong about. And even that may be debatable. Keeping to a single screen size may have contributes to the success of the 3rd party apps. Which as you stated he was wrong about also.

Reading his book, My opinion on that is that he was opposed to the idea of other people freely adding code to the iOS platform. At the time he didn't see the possibility of controlling these 3rd party apps via a single source (the App store). When that vision evolved he accepted the 3rd party option... once they were allowed into that Walled garden. Another one of your points...

I think he was spot on about the walled garden. It's one of the MAIN reasons I buy Apple products. So he may have been right about that.

Styli - Not wrong (yet)

Multi-Tasking - at the time Apple wasn't able to do it efficiently on a small screen, and without eating the battery. so at the time, it wasn't beneficial.

File Management and File sharing - This has been done. Not sure how he was wrong

Copy/Paste - was he against it? or just a missing feature early?

Cell Providers - How was he wrong? Not sure what this means.

One thing he WAS wrong about that you didn't add to your list... MM messaging. He thought people would just use email instead.
 
jrswizzle said:
But "the future, now"? More like 20 years ago.....the stylus has been around for a long time. Good for some things, but not as the go-to input device for my smartphone....

That would be my fingers.
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Again, nobody is talking about going back to a stylus for primary input. We're talking about supporting more than one kind of input.

--

A pen is an ADDITIONAL means of input. Just like voice input. Or using a physical volume control. Or using the earbud switch to change tracks.

People are used to pens and pencils for drawing and taking notes, not just using fingerpaint. That's why even poor stylii are one of the most popular iPad accessories, even sold in Apple stores.

Adding higher resolution active pen input, alongside capacitive finger input, makes a lot of sense and is part of a trend towards accepting more of the ways humans are used to interacting with each other... finger touch, pen touch, brush touch, air gestures, voice, even facial expressions.

Humans do not use just one form of input or output. Neither should our devices.

--

Frankly, this debate is a boring repeat of every other debate about something that Apple does not natively support yet.
 
kdarling said:
Again, nobody is talking about going back to a stylus for primary input. We're talking about supporting more than one kind of input.

--

A pen is an ADDITIONAL means of input. Just like voice input. Or using a physical volume control. Or using the earbud switch to change tracks.

People are used to pens and pencils for drawing and taking notes, not just using fingerpaint. That's why even poor stylii are one of the most popular iPad accessories, even sold in Apple stores.

Adding higher resolution active pen input, alongside capacitive finger input, makes a lot of sense and is part of a trend towards accepting more of the ways humans are used to interacting with each other... finger touch, pen touch, brush touch, air gestures, voice, even facial expressions.

Humans do not use just one form of input or output. Neither should our devices.

--

Frankly, this debate is a boring repeat of every other debate about something that Apple does not natively support yet.
Click to expand...

No that's exactly what people who are claiming Jobs was wrong are saying. Jobs wasn't saying that the stylus should die and never come back. He was merely stating that as the primary input method, the stylus isn't the way. He was right and the fact that the only device that comes with one makes up a VERY small percentage of the overall smartphone base.

Frankly, I think its up to styli makers to innovate and provide better options.

I guess it can all come back to the argument used for everything around here though - "Why not provide it, you don't have to use it".

Meh....whatever. Talk about a boring argument.
 
kdarling said:
Again, nobody is talking about going back to a stylus for primary input. We're talking about supporting more than one kind of input.

--

A pen is an ADDITIONAL means of input. Just like voice input. Or using a physical volume control. Or using the earbud switch to change tracks.

People are used to pens and pencils for drawing and taking notes, not just using fingerpaint. That's why even poor stylii are one of the most popular iPad accessories, even sold in Apple stores.

Adding higher resolution active pen input, alongside capacitive finger input, makes a lot of sense and is part of a trend towards accepting more of the ways humans are used to interacting with each other... finger touch, pen touch, brush touch, air gestures, voice, even facial expressions.

Humans do not use just one form of input or output. Neither should our devices.

--

Frankly, this debate is a boring repeat of every other debate about something that Apple does not natively support yet.
Click to expand...

Enjoy reading your thoughts....you have a way of making sense out of the non-sense.
 
jrswizzle said:
No that's exactly what people who are claiming Jobs was wrong are saying. Jobs wasn't saying that the stylus should die and never come back. He was merely stating that as the primary input method, the stylus isn't the way. He was right and the fact that the only device that comes with one makes up a VERY small percentage of the overall smartphone base.

Frankly, I think its up to styli makers to innovate and provide better options.

I guess it can all come back to the argument used for everything around here though - "Why not provide it, you don't have to use it".

Meh....whatever. Talk about a boring argument.
Click to expand...

Damn near every smartphone with a stylus back then had hard buttons. The stylus was never the primary input method.

Although there were some pocket PCs(old style tablets) which didn't have a hard keyboard. But Jobs was comparing to the Treos and iPaq smartphones as shown on the big screen.

Jobs was basically showing that you can have a touch only input device without the need of a stylus. And he was definitely right about that.
 
LIVEFRMNYC said:
Damn near every smartphone with a stylus back then had hard buttons. The stylus was never the primary input method.

Although there were some pocket PCs(old style tablets) which didn't have a hard keyboard. But Jobs was comparing to the Treos and iPaq smartphones as shown on the big screen.

Jobs was basically showing that you can have a touch only input device without the need of a stylus. And he was definitely right about that.
Click to expand...

Bingo bango - thanks for more clearly explaining it.
 
LIVEFRMNYC said:
Damn near every smartphone with a stylus back then had hard buttons. The stylus was never the primary input method.

Although there were some pocket PCs(old style tablets) which didn't have a hard keyboard. But Jobs was comparing to the Treos and iPaq smartphones as shown on the big screen.

Jobs was basically showing that you can have a touch only input device without the need of a stylus. And he was definitely right about that.
Click to expand...
What? As a person who actually had an iPaq before the iPhone came out, I can tell you the stylus was the primary input method. The buttons on the bottom were just menu and navigation buttons like those you find on the bottom of Android or Windows phones.

But yes, I agree that Jobs was right about finger-based touchscreens being the future.
 
appleii.c said:
Am I missing something? Whats the big deal about the Stylus? Aren't there many aftermarket ones out there(wacom, adonit etc)? I have a cheap one I use with my iPad. Is there something else to the other styli?
Click to expand...

The Note stylus and associated software/digitizer on the Note has zero in common with those crappy styluses you are referring to. Have palm rejection, pressure sensitivity and a zero lag experience is the only way to use a stylus with a mobile device. Both Windows and Samsung are doing things correctly. Apple isn't even in the game.
 
Lloydbm41 said:
The Note stylus and associated software/digitizer on the Note has zero in common with those crappy styluses you are referring to. Have palm rejection, pressure sensitivity and a zero lag experience is the only way to use a stylus with a mobile device. Both Windows and Samsung are doing things correctly. Apple isn't even in the game.
Click to expand...

Do you consider the Styli from companies like Wacom and Adonit to be crappy styli? They have pressure sensitivity, zero lag etc. And I know firsthand that apps like noteshelf have palm rejection. I'm sure other apps do as well. Apple themselves aren't in the game because maybe they don't see a benefit to using a Stylus for their own apps (itunes, mail, ibooks etc). But there are quite a few 3rd party apps and styli that are not in the "crappy" category.
 
appleii.c said:
Do you consider the Styli from companies like Wacom and Adonit to be crappy styli? They have pressure sensitivity, zero lag etc. And I know firsthand that apps like noteshelf have palm rejection. I'm sure other apps do as well. Apple themselves aren't in the game because maybe they don't see a benefit to using a Stylus for their own apps (itunes, mail, ibooks etc). But there are quite a few 3rd party apps and styli that are not in the "crappy" category.
Click to expand...

Wacom certainly is not crappy, but just having the stylus without the digitizer hardware, I find it hard to believe that a display from Apple can accurately interpret pressure sensitivity, angle and brush size while also ensuring palm rejection with any credible accuracy. Software can only get you so far.
 
Lloydbm41 said:
Wacom certainly is not crappy, but just having the stylus without the digitizer hardware, I find it hard to believe that a display from Apple can accurately interpret pressure sensitivity, angle and brush size while also ensuring palm rejection with any credible accuracy. Software can only get you so far.
Click to expand...

I'm not an expert on this matter, so i may be wrong. But isn't the pressure sensitivity done on the Stylus itself and not the screen? I believe this is how Samsung is doing it. Which is why I ask, how are the other offerings much different than just buying a 3rd party Stylus such as the Wacom intuos?
 
anti-flame disclaimer: I use a S Pen and I love it

IMO the most important reason for Jobs to not implement a stylus was - style*. Steve had many qualities obviously but I think where his genius shone the brightest was in brand management. Being cool and not catering to the stereotypical PC nerd was and is the life blood of Apple's brand. And what is the stylus if not the ultimate symbol of a bonafide PC dork? Especially a few years ago...as I honestly think Samsung is starting to get somewhere with legitimising the stylus for the modern day user.

But yeah, for Jobs, the stylus would simply have been the ultimate turnoff of a feature to garnish the iPhone with. From a brand psychology perspective. iPhone and consequently Apple would have been less confident as a brand if he had implemented it, no matter what practical use it makes possible beyond just good programming and a finger. Maybe it's a detail but its symbolic meaning is huge. ** And I'm willing to bet that a stylus is right at the top of Apple's "What Steve told us to never ever do, no matter how often he himself would screw us over by changing his mind - implement one of these things and Phil Schiller will literally sit on your face and that's something you really don't want"-list. And they'd do well to keep it there forever IMO.

* sorry that looks like a weird pun or something, I wasn't trying to be clever I swear :eek:

** sorry about those two lines
 
appleii.c said:
Do you consider the Styli from companies like Wacom and Adonit to be crappy styli? They have pressure sensitivity, zero lag etc. And I know firsthand that apps like noteshelf have palm rejection. I'm sure other apps do as well. Apple themselves aren't in the game because maybe they don't see a benefit to using a Stylus for their own apps (itunes, mail, ibooks etc). But there are quite a few 3rd party apps and styli that are not in the "crappy" category.
Click to expand...

Yes they are crappy, if you mean the ones meant for the iPhone/iPad. I've tried most of them, including the more recent Bluetooth ones that are meant to have pressure sensitivity, no comparison with a full Wacom digitizer/stylus combination.
 
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