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Since they were not selling many, then they should have no issue certifying and licensing Mac OS X Server to run in VM enterprise environments (like VMWare vSphere) since it wouldn't be cannibalizing hardware sales of their own. That actually could turn out to be a much more lucrative market then XServers.

Anyone who thinks the new Mac Pro "Server" edition or using multiple mac mini's are a valid replacement in a enterprise environment clearly has never worked in, supported, or managed an enterprise environment.

This. Some of the ridiculous comments on this forum are from people with no experience from which to base said comments. If you have no experience of computing within an enterprise setting just keep quiet.
 
Ok I read enough. I have replaced enough drives in my lifetime to know that you have never done systems administration on something bigger than your home network to spout things like these.

Bringing down a machine to replace a failed mirror drive in vg00 is not an acceptable compromise. These things need uptime.

Heck, we moved to boot on SAN precisely because boot drive failures were causing us too many incidents. Are you suggesting our use of dual HBAs, completely redundant fabrics and dual parity in our storage arrays is also a myth as far as requirements go ? :rolleyes:

I wonder how hard it would be for Apple to make the Mac Pro's drives hot swappable - i mean they are already in fairly easy to remove/replace sleds. Not that that would solve the many other issues that the Xserve addressed... But hey, you could always put 4 - way mirrored drives in your Mac Pro - it'd probably take quite a while for 3 of them to fail ;)
 
Boy am I sick of Jobs's douchey responses. He's so cocky and self-righteous.

Steve, newsflash: more people would buy them if they weren't overpriced. And if you spent 1/10th of your marketing budget for itoys on the pro hardware.

You realize that Apples marketing budget is miniscule in relation to the rest of the tech industry, right?
 
Apple seems to focus on the end-user. They believe, (as do I,) that IT equipment and people's role is enable the user, not dictate policy.

I think many people are not going to agree on this, but you building things the old way. Hardware is cheap. MySQL is fully cluster-able. If your CRM is so important you should have multiple load-balanced servers hosting it with multiple clustered database servers. For a small site an array of minis would be fine, cheaper, use less power, and space. If you have a huge site then it really isn't a big deal to switch to MacPro since your getting bigger hardware for cheaper price anyway.

This. When you see someone who insists that you need a fully-redundant SAN with hot-swappable everything for their CMS... you're seeing someone who is a lot more interested in growing their budget than doing something sensible. People like this flourish in the much-ballyhooed "enterprise", because near as I can tell "enterprise" actually means "whatever definition is convenient for me in the current argument, but it definitely requires that there be a lot of money involved and ignoramuses with MBAs making the decisions."
 
If someone has a different opinion than you do, it must obviously mean that he's a moron who does not know a server from a hole in the ground!

It has nothing to do with a different opinion and everything to do with plain ignorant comments. You're not a systems administrator, I am. I wouldn't tell you how to do your job, please don't tell me how to do mine.
 
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I think many people are not going to agree on this, but you building things the old way. Hardware is cheap. MySQL is fully cluster-able. If your CRM is so important you should have multiple load-balanced servers hosting it with multiple clustered database servers.

What makes you think my ERP and CRM aren't on multi-node clusters ? Multiple nodes is 1 point. All those nodes also have multiple redundant power supplies, multiple redundant paths to storage, and this storage is also redundant.

Introducing a single point of failure into any systems is plain asking for trouble. Again, there's a difference between cold backups and clustering. The Mac Mini is not a proper solution to host enterprise grade applications, anyone suggesting otherwise has never had a pager strapped to their body at 3 a.m. on a Christmas eve.
 
Hello steve, I bought one... And planned to get another one:mad: ..... I m not surprise that Xserve is out play in Mac sales figure, but I think1u Mac is kinda important in education & research field(i guess)......
 
It has nothing to do with a different opinion and everything to do with plain ignorant comments. You're not a systems administrator, I am. I wouldn't tell you how to do your job, please don't tell me how to do mine.

I've moved on from sysadmin work to all-code-all-the-time, but my colleagues who run things from many of the world's most capable HPC clusters to uptime-critical communications and logistics systems to support hundreds of thousands of simultaneous users (note: simultaneous, not in toto) disagree with you. In certain circumstances.

You know one particular little slice of the server world (and, for the record, have offered no evidence that you know it well or competently--your buzzword bingo suggests the opposite). But you project that to mean that you know everything about everyone's needs and best solutions. You're plainly ignorant, and your bully manner only makes it clearer.
 
This. When you see someone who insists that you need a fully-redundant SAN with hot-swappable everything for their CMS... you're seeing someone who is a lot more interested in growing their budget than doing something sensible. People like this flourish in the much-ballyhooed "enterprise", because near as I can tell "enterprise" actually means "whatever definition is convenient for me in the current argument, but it definitely requires that there be a lot of money involved and ignoramuses with MBAs making the decisions."

Should tell that to Apple it's self, listen to these buzz words taken from the Apple Data Center Job Posting Requirements.

* Apple says that its “data center environment consists of MacOS X, IBM/AIX, Linux and SUN/Solaris systems.”

* The Maiden facility will have a “heavy emphasis” on high availability technologies, including IBM’s HACMP and HAGEO solutions for high-availability clusters, Veritas Cluster Server, and Oracle’s DataGuard and Real Application Clusters.

* Job candidates are also asked to be familiar with storage systems using IBM, NetApp and Data Domain, and data warehousing systems from Teradata.

* Networking positions require a familiarity with Brocade and Qlogic switches.

Talk about a case of Buzz Word Bingo.
 
It has nothing to do with a different opinion and everything to do with plain ignorant comments. You're not a systems administrator, I am. I wouldn't tell you how to do your job, please don't tell me how to do mine.

I'm not telling you how to do your job. Your tasks might genuinely require a 1U-server. It might even require an Xserve (although that's unlikely). But that still doesn't change the fact that Xserve can be replaced with other solutions. And if someone mentions those other solutions, it does not mean that that particular person is a moron or incompetent.

If you are at the hi-end of datacenter-users, then yes, you might need super-fast 1U-servers with super-fast interconnects, redundant PSU's and networking. But fact is that there simply are not enough of you to sustain the Xserve-business. And even if you are that kind of users, it's doubtful that you specifically NEED Xserves to do your job.
 
Should tell that to Apple it's self, listen to these buzz words taken from the Apple Data Center Job Posting Requirements.

* Apple says that its “data center environment consists of MacOS X, IBM/AIX, Linux and SUN/Solaris systems.”

* The Maiden facility will have a “heavy emphasis” on high availability technologies, including IBM’s HACMP and HAGEO solutions for high-availability clusters, Veritas Cluster Server, and Oracle’s DataGuard and Real Application Clusters.

* Job candidates are also asked to be familiar with storage systems using IBM, NetApp and Data Domain, and data warehousing systems from Teradata.

* Networking positions require a familiarity with Brocade and Qlogic switches.

Talk about a case of Buzz Word Bingo.

Not sure you understand what "buzzword bingo" is all about. This is a job posting listing specific products that are in use, and hence ones that the applicant should be experienced in. That's got no relation to a random person throwing around "ERP" in an attempt to cow people into thinking they're an expert. :)
 
OK, that's it. I'm sick and tired of your continued douchebaggery. If someone has a different opinion than you do, it must obviously mean that he's a moron who does not know a server from a hole in the ground!

Just because someone disagrees with you does NOT mean that the other person is incompetent or just plain stupid. So give it a rest already.

Thank you!!!! That's why he's on my ignore list. He treats a lot of people on the forum like they are stupid and he's the only smart one. Impossible to have a conversation with him when he's the only one that's right. Put him on ignore, it works wonders. :)
 
I think Jobs is great, but from managing 2 Xserve's & 180 Mac's with a joint AD/OD system I can say ditching the Xserve is PANTS.

Bad idea - especially considering business's are looking to head the Mac Route - is Job's answer is to slam a Mac Mini in a server rack room, or a MacPro dwindling on the floor!?

Crazy.

Did you read the article? No-one was buying them. It's not cost-effective to make a product that is only used by some guys on an internet forum.

If they were serious about enterprise servers they'd make OSX Server available on HPs and Dells. We all know Jobs will never do that, because he isn't serious about the enterprise market other than selling iPhones to executives.
 
If we compare machines of same price, you either get:

1x 2.26Ghz quad-core Nehalem (Four cores in total) with 3GB of RAM.

or

3x 2.66Ghz Intel Core 2 Duo (Six cores in total) with 12GB of RAM total.

That doesn't sound like a bad deal to me.

But I thought you said the idea of buying 3 of them was for redundancy. Doesn't that mean you can't treat them like 3 separate usable machines?
 
I've moved on from sysadmin work to all-code-all-the-time, but my colleagues who run things from many of the world's most capable HPC clusters to uptime-critical communications and logistics systems to support hundreds of thousands of simultaneous users (note: simultaneous, not in toto) disagree with you. In certain circumstances.

You know one particular little slice of the server world (and, for the record, have offered no evidence that you know it well or competently--your buzzword bingo suggests the opposite). But you project that to mean that you know everything about everyone's needs and best solutions. You're plainly ignorant, and your bully manner only makes it clearer.

Please, instead of attacking me, how about you then proceed to attack my arguments if they are so bad ? :rolleyes:

Until then, I stick by what I said. I work in this field and having been on call many Christmases, I wouldn't give up my redundant hardware that is easily serviceable while online for all the promises in the world.

Ad hominem is ad hominem. Evangelion doesn't know what he's talking about. You're free to show me the errors of my ways if you actually do.
 
Isn't discontinuing xserves--especially if they're used for deployment-- kind of like shooting yourself in the foot for enterprise customers? I'm playing devils advocate here, but wouldn't it just be easier for these companies to axe all of the macs to make things even easier?
 
Isn't discontinuing xserves--especially if they're used for deployment-- kind of like shooting yourself in the foot for enterprise customers? I'm playing devils advocate here, but wouldn't it just be easier for these companies to axe all of the macs to make things even easier?
XServe halo effect?
 
Not sure you understand what "buzzword bingo" is all about. This is a job posting listing specific products that are in use, and hence ones that the applicant should be experienced in. That's got no relation to a random person throwing around "ERP" in an attempt to cow people into thinking they're an expert. :)

Actually I'm not sure you understand what Buzzword Bingo means to be honest. It was a game created where people prepared bingo cards with Buzzwords on them to take to meetings, speech's, etc. and checked off the words as they we're said. The same can be applied to an announcement, a job posting, etc. So I'm actually pretty sure that you can play Buzzword Bingo off this job posting, as it has a lot of enterprise "Buzzword's" on it, which was my entire point.

Even Apple clearly buys into the whole "enterprise" game with their very own systems (which from everything I can tell is PRIMARILY Solaris on Sun Hardware, talk about a contradiction).
 
Did you read the article? No-one was buying them. It's not cost-effective to make a product that is only used by some guys on an internet forum.

If they were serious about enterprise servers they'd make OSX Server available on HPs and Dells. We all know Jobs will never do that, because he isn't serious about the enterprise market other than selling iPhones to executives.

No, he'll never do that because Apple is about selling hardware, not licensing their software. Apple already tried once to turn themselves into a company that was half HP and half MS, and it ruined them so completely that you couldn't find a single person, myself included, who thought they'd make it to the 21st century.

Apple has much better profits than HP or Dell, with a smaller company. The only people surprised by Apple not wanting to emulate either their own past failures or other companies in entirely different markets who have smaller profits are... well, I'm not even sure what to call them. They probably need medical attention.
 
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