Dannydematio

macrumors member
Original poster
May 17, 2016
47
10
Hi

I’m about to push the button on i7 2020 and I was going to get the middle option 5700. I’ve read the stuff on the 5700XT “glitch” but it looks like software, so Apple should nail it. I’m using this machine for photography, light room Luminar, PS etc. I guess some video, but not a lot, maybe a bit more in future. I want my new machine to last me three to five years. I understand everything will alter with the silicone Macs, but I need something now.

Would the 5700XT make a significant difference day to day or pay off as Apple update the OS going forwards and leaves intel behind?

Thanks.
 

pmiles

macrumors 6502a
Dec 12, 2013
549
397
Anything you can add to an essentially non-upgradeable machine at BTO future proofs it. The question is whether you see yourself moving forward or staying behind until your next computer purchase.

Are you the type to run a version of Photoshop that used to be sold as standalone software for perpetuity because you don't see the value in subscription ware? Find that for your use, the older versions are just fine?

Or are you the type to upgrade to the latest and greatest because of performance boost or time savings?

Do you see yourself removing the screen of your display to upgrade some internal component (of which there appears to be none short of memory compared to the previous models) down the road?

Honestly an additional $200 for an XT isn't going to break your bank any more than the cost of the machine already is... and if you can afford to replace the machine in 3-5 years, you can afford the $200 now.

It's not going to hurt your machine to have the additional GPU power if you never use it. But should you ever need it...
 
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Dannydematio

macrumors member
Original poster
May 17, 2016
47
10
You’re perfectly correct in every way

It’s a psychological brain fart that makes one hesitate over relatively minor issues like this. I already knew I should just max the spec on the bits I can’t easily upgrade. I just wanted to hear somebody else agree ☺️

This decision had an extra layer of complexity because here in Euro land dropping over 3.5K on the a machine that’s being left behind does makes you wonder. However, I had already got passed that hurdle because buying a used iMac that was a decent upgrade on what I just had, was approaching half the cost of a new 2020 and even a 5 + year old machine over a third of that cost.

Back in 2009 I literally bought the fastest BTO iMac 27 Apple offered. Never had to upgrade it, (except ram). It gave me excellent service till it died a couple of weeks ago. Sure it was slow by today’s standards but most tasks happened in real time and I had other machines for heavy lifting. My mantra back then was “ buy the fasted machine you can afford to meet your needs for several years” and forget about the fact that something faster will be released in X months time. In this case bigger screens, case redesign and totally new processor.

Maybe it’s the current climate and the ******** that’s being rammed down our throats that’s made me finicky about parting with dough on what should be a straight forward decision.

Many thanks for taking the time to reply with a good dose of common sense.

regards.
 

Freida

macrumors 68040
Oct 22, 2010
3,359
4,523
I wouldn't buy it. In fact I will get the 5700 instead of the XT version. The reason is simple. The gain is minimal and for the extra cash it makes more sense to buy Apple Care which makes the machine easier to sell in about 2.5years than XT that adds very little performance gains.
I've debated it long and hard but the 5700 is the right spot for the right price (even though its already overpriced considering RDNA2 is out this month). I'm waiting till november to see if Apple switches it to RDNA2 (probably unlikely) as apparently AMD stopped producing 5xxx serie recently even for custom ones so unless Apple has stock there is a tiny chance we might see a GPU refresh. Who knows, its weird.


In your case though, just use the money for something better unless you really really need the extra few % gains (doubt that)

Hi

I’m about to push the button on i7 2020 and I was going to get the middle option 5700. I’ve read the stuff on the 5700XT “glitch” but it looks like software, so Apple should nail it. I’m using this machine for photography, light room Luminar, PS etc. I guess some video, but not a lot, maybe a bit more in future. I want my new machine to last me three to five years. I understand everything will alter with the silicone Macs, but I need something now.

Would the 5700XT make a significant difference day to day or pay off as Apple update the OS going forwards and leaves intel behind?

Thanks.
 

Dannydematio

macrumors member
Original poster
May 17, 2016
47
10
I hear you. I’m trying to find a real world comparison of the 5700 vs XT version in 2020 before I finally decide. With double the memory 8 vs 16 the I guess the XT has more in reserve going forwards.
 

Freida

macrumors 68040
Oct 22, 2010
3,359
4,523
Save the money, get the 5700 and with the left over money grab 2 Apple stock. In 3 or so years when you are ready to upgrade, the stock is most likely be worth more. (plus you will be getting some small dividends).
I think that would be my approach. More money in the pocket and more money (very likely) for the upgrade. Win and win :D


I hear you. I’m trying to find a real world comparison of the 5700 vs XT version in 2020 before I finally decide. With double the memory 8 vs 16 the I guess the XT has more in reserve going forwards.
 
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Dannydematio

macrumors member
Original poster
May 17, 2016
47
10
Save the money, get the 5700 and with the left over money grab 2 Apple stock. In 3 or so years when you are ready to upgrade, the stock is most likely be worth more. (plus you will be getting some small dividends).
I think that would be my approach. More money in the pocket and more money (very likely) for the upgrade. Win and win :D

Well that’s certainly thinking outside the box! A good idea too!

As things stand, I realise the 5700xt is not necessary for my core uses. The 5700 will do the job just fine. Somebody who was looking over my shoulder and knows nothing about computers or has much interest, asked me what I was pondering about the GPU. When I explained it all to her, she said, but will your computer run the OS slower in a few years when Apple are only making it for ARM? I said the GPU doesn’t come into it, it’s the processor/ram that matters for the speed of the OS, Pretty sure I’m right about that.

Incidentally, I usually wait well into year one to buy Apple Care. In the past, so long as you purchased it during the first years warranty period, you could add it later. Why fork out early. I assume it still operates like that today?
 

AZREOSpecialist

Suspended
Mar 15, 2009
2,354
1,279
Hi

I’m about to push the button on i7 2020 and I was going to get the middle option 5700. I’ve read the stuff on the 5700XT “glitch” but it looks like software, so Apple should nail it. I’m using this machine for photography, light room Luminar, PS etc. I guess some video, but not a lot, maybe a bit more in future. I want my new machine to last me three to five years. I understand everything will alter with the silicone Macs, but I need something now.

Would the 5700XT make a significant difference day to day or pay off as Apple update the OS going forwards and leaves intel behind?

Thanks.
No. Apple will be rolling its own GPU solution for the ASi (Apple Silicon) Macs. Buy what does the job, don't worry about a few years from now. Chances are in a few years there will be other aspects of the Mac system that will make upgrading worthwhile.
 

pldelisle

macrumors 68020
May 4, 2020
2,248
1,489
Montreal, Quebec, Canada
No. Apple will be rolling its own GPU solution for the ASi (Apple Silicon) Macs. Buy what does the job, don't worry about a few years from now. Chances are in a few years there will be other aspects of the Mac system that will make upgrading worthwhile.
Couldn't say it better.

Chances are 99% that if you don't need it right now you won't need it in the future.
 
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ADGrant

macrumors 6502a
Mar 26, 2018
833
498
No. Apple will be rolling its own GPU solution for the ASi (Apple Silicon) Macs. Buy what does the job, don't worry about a few years from now. Chances are in a few years there will be other aspects of the Mac system that will make upgrading worthwhile.

After the jump to SSD my experience has been that the GPU in a Mac ages the fastest. For $200 I would (and did) get the 5700XT just for the extra VRAM.
 

ADGrant

macrumors 6502a
Mar 26, 2018
833
498
Well that’s certainly thinking outside the box! A good idea too!

As things stand, I realise the 5700xt is not necessary for my core uses. The 5700 will do the job just fine. Somebody who was looking over my shoulder and knows nothing about computers or has much interest, asked me what I was pondering about the GPU. When I explained it all to her, she said, but will your computer run the OS slower in a few years when Apple are only making it for ARM? I said the GPU doesn’t come into it, it’s the processor/ram that matters for the speed of the OS, Pretty sure I’m right about that.

Incidentally, I usually wait well into year one to buy Apple Care. In the past, so long as you purchased it during the first years warranty period, you could add it later. Why fork out early. I assume it still operates like that today?

I would just get the Apple care so you don't forget.

As to you other point, you don't buy a computer to run an OS, you buy it to run applications. Some of those applications may be limited by CPU, some may be limited by GPU. It will depend on the app and how powerful you CPU and GPU are and how much RAM and VRAM you have. That said, some of the UI animations were definitely a bit glitchy on my old Mac book with 2GB of VRAM. The one I had before that only had 512MB of VRAM

You have decided to buy an Intel Mac and not wait for an ARM Mac so don't worry about what an ARM Mac will do. With an installed base of over 100 million Intel Macs, they will be supported for a while by both Apple and third party developers. Assuming the last Intel Mac is sold in the Summer of 2022, I think we will see OS upgrades until at least 2027, maybe even 2029.
 

Dannydematio

macrumors member
Original poster
May 17, 2016
47
10
I would just get the Apple care so you don't forget.

As to you other point, you don't buy a computer to run an OS, you buy it to run applications. Some of those applications may be limited by CPU, some may be limited by GPU. It will depend on the app and how powerful you CPU and GPU are and how much RAM and VRAM you have. That said, some of the UI animations were definitely a bit glitchy on my old Mac book with 2GB of VRAM. The one I had before that only had 512MB of VRAM

You have decided to buy an Intel Mac and not wait for an ARM Mac so don't worry about what an ARM Mac will do. With an installed base of over 100 million Intel Macs, they will be supported for a while by both Apple and third party developers. Assuming the last Intel Mac is sold in the Summer of 2022, I think we will see OS upgrades until at least 2027, maybe even 2029.

A big Thank you to everyone who weighed in with super advice.

I ordered the following. I will up the Ram to 32gb later. I’m going to remove the Apple 8gb as I am reading that there are issues with mixing with OWC etc ram. I do not require the nano glass where I will be using it, plus you will be shocked to know that in Europe, Apple charge us $725 to upgrade to nano on their BTO. Don’t ask me what the rest of it cost compared to USA!


  • Standard glass
  • 3.8GHz 8-core 10th-generation Intel Core i7 processor, Turbo Boost up to 5.0GHz
  • 8GB 2666MHz DDR4 memory
  • Radeon Pro 5700 XT with 16GB of GDDR6 memory
  • 1TB SSD storage
  • Gigabit Ethernet
  • Magic Mouse 2
  • Magic Keyboard
 
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BuCkDoG

macrumors 6502a
Jun 13, 2013
640
254
I personally would buy the i7 5700 XT model. I currently am using that model for the past month and I have to say that the machine is simply fantastic.
 

Dannydematio

macrumors member
Original poster
May 17, 2016
47
10
I personally would buy the i7 5700 XT model. I currently am using that model for the past month and I have to say that the machine is simply fantastic.

yes, I’m looking forward to it. Should be a warp speed experience over my old 2009 i7. SSD too, I haven’t had one before. I’ll add a 2TB external SSD for photos and a large USB-3 drive for general back up. I’m not sure if Apple will stick with the 5700 XT as I’m hearing rumours of a swap out due to issues. Let’s see!

I’ll have to restore my failed iMac from a CCC back up to the 2020 when it comes. Should be straight forward via migration assistant.
 

BuCkDoG

macrumors 6502a
Jun 13, 2013
640
254
yes, I’m looking forward to it. Should be a warp speed experience over my old 2009 i7. SSD too, I haven’t had one before. I’ll add a 2TB external SSD for photos and a large USB-3 drive for general back up. I’m not sure if Apple will stick with the 5700 XT as I’m hearing rumours of a swap out due to issues. Let’s see!

I’ll have to restore my failed iMac from a CCC back up to the 2020 when it comes. Should be straight forward via migration assistant.
What do you mean by not sticking with the 5700XT? The recent software update patched the graphical issues. I don’t see apple swapping out GPUs at all in the near future with this model.
 

Dannydematio

macrumors member
Original poster
May 17, 2016
47
10
What do you mean by not sticking with the 5700XT? The recent software update patched the graphical issues. I don’t see apple swapping out GPUs at all in the near future with this model.

No, I’m not saying they won’t stick with the 5700XT, Its a big maybe as I heard rumours that it’s a SW issue for most cards but in certain cards with certain components it’s a HW issue. Probably not true. Apparently the 5700 is off the production line? However, I guess Apple have their usual adequate bin levels. I’ll know in 3 weeks but to be frank, I 100% expect to see a 5700XT in my BTO.
 
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hoodafoo

macrumors 6502
Oct 11, 2020
266
140
Lso Angeles
Here's how I justified upgrading to 5700XT. Totally unscientific, but you work with what you've got:

I gathered 4 pages worth of benchmarks from Geekbench for each of the following: 8-core w/either 5700 (8GB VRAM) or 5700XT (16GB VRAM), 10-core w/either 5700 (8GB VRAM) or 5700XT (16GB VRAM)

Deleted the highest and lowest score and averaged them out:

iMacs with =<64GB system RAM
8C/8GB (9 samples): 46023
8C/16GB (26 samples): 54232*
10C/8GB (2 samples): 43639
10C/16GB (15 samples): 55113

iMacs with >64GB system RAM
8C/8GB (2 samples): 44741
8C/16GB (37 samples): 54776
10C/8GB (3 samples): 46079
10C/16GB (67 samples): 54753

From the numbers, you can see that going from 8GB VRAM to 16GB makes a big difference. Going from 8-core to 10-core has minimal impact and even in some cases a lower score. And seems like going beyond 64GB of RAM provides no benefits at all. So in the end, I went for the sweet spot: 8-core i7/5700XT/64GB*

Errors to take into account: ppl submitting multiple benchmarks skewing the data, RAM installed non-optimally, non-controlled environment
 
Last edited:

Dannydematio

macrumors member
Original poster
May 17, 2016
47
10
Here's how I justified upgrading to 5700XT. Totally unscientific, but you work with what you've got:

I gathered 4 pages worth of benchmarks from Geekbench for each of the following: 8-core w/either 5700 (8GB VRAM) or 5700XT (16GB VRAM), 10-core w/either 5700 (8GB VRAM) or 5700XT (16GB VRAM)

Deleted the highest and lowest score and averaged them out:

iMacs with =<64GB system RAM
8C/8GB (9 samples): 46023
8C/16GB (26 samples): 54232*
10C/8GB (2 samples): 43639
10C/16GB (15 samples): 55113

iMacs with >64GB system RAM
8C/8GB (2 samples): 44741
8C/16GB (37 samples): 54776
10C/8GB (3 samples): 46079
10C/16GB (67 samples): 54753

From the numbers, you can see that going from 8GB VRAM to 16GB makes a big difference. Going from 8-core to 10-core has minimal impact and even in some cases a lower score. And seems like going beyond 64GB of RAM provides no benefits at all. So in the end, I went for the sweet spot: 8-core i7/5700XT/64GB*

Thanks for taking the time to analyse this, it’s pretty clear.

In fact, I landed on the same conclusion and ordered the exact same system as you. I’ll up the ram (64) shortly.

I got the machine yesterday, but since I’m using migration assistant to copy across my old iMac BU I’m waiting and waiting and waiting as I had the BU on a FW800 drive and since I didn’t have TB3 to FW adapter, so I used USB. (Mistake) So now I can’t do anything with it until it finishes.

In fact, I am unsure if everything is transferring as it should as the progress bar is solid, (drive is active) but does not give any indication of progress and only says “starting up”.

I’m told from asking around that using USB could take a few days and it’s been 28 solid hours thus far. If I had known, I would have made sure I had a TB-FW cable ready.

I’ve noticed the white line glitch a few times during the set up process, but I noticed some updates are available so I hope a fix is awaiting me.

if anybody who has used migration assistant recently could confirm the screen shot below is what I should be seeing and not a sign of a hanging Mac!

thanks.
 

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hoodafoo

macrumors 6502
Oct 11, 2020
266
140
Lso Angeles
Thanks for taking the time to analyse this, it’s pretty clear.

In fact, I landed on the same conclusion and ordered the exact same system as you. I’ll up the ram (64) shortly.

I got the machine yesterday, but since I’m using migration assistant to copy across my old iMac BU I’m waiting and waiting and waiting as I had the BU on a FW800 drive and since I didn’t have TB3 to FW adapter, so I used USB. (Mistake) So now I can’t do anything with it until it finishes.

In fact, I am unsure if everything is transferring as it should as the progress bar is solid, (drive is active) but does not give any indication of progress and only says “starting up”.

I’m told from asking around that using USB could take a few days and it’s been 28 solid hours thus far. If I had known, I would have made sure I had a TB-FW cable ready.

Nice! To be clear, I ordered mine with the standard 8GB and will be upgrading it to 64GB Crucial RAM.

28 hours is a PAINFULLY long time to wait.. wtf? how much data are we talking about?? Anyway, when you get everything up and running, I'm sure you will be thrilled about the speed increase over your old system!

btw, there's no FW800 to USB3/TB3 option, so not much you could have done anyways!
 
Last edited:

Dannydematio

macrumors member
Original poster
May 17, 2016
47
10
Nice! To be clear, I ordered mine with the standard 8GB and will be upgrading it to 64GB Crucial RAM.

28 hours is a PAINFULLY long time to wait.. wtf? how much data are we talking about?? Anyway, when you get everything up and running, I'm sure you will be thrilled about the speed increase over your old system!

btw, there's no FW800 to USB3/TB3 option, so not much you could have done anyways!

Understood


well I will just have to wait to see my favourite porn site in 5k won’t I. 😂
 
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warp9

Contributor
Jun 8, 2017
450
637
I hear you. I’m trying to find a real world comparison of the 5700 vs XT version in 2020 before I finally decide. With double the memory 8 vs 16 the I guess the XT has more in reserve going forwards.
Another consideration for your needs is how heavily Adobe will be leaning on AI over the next decade. Just like nVidia with their DLSS neural processing for games, more and more image processing will be offloaded to the gpu. You will be happy to have that extra horsepower when Adobe shows off the latest and greatest AI-powered features.
 
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Dannydematio

macrumors member
Original poster
May 17, 2016
47
10
If it's still stuck on that screenshot after 28 hours, I would restart the process! Here's how a working migration should look:


Thabks for that. I can clearly see
the progress bar operates as one would expect.

In this case, it’s transferring from a CCC back up volume, so different to mac 2 mac and maybe it’s still ok?

I am not sure if it’s hung or just super slow. I’m guessing it’s copying around 300GIG. I’m away from the machine right now, if it’s not finished later I guess I will have to cancel the process.

So annoying the system doesn’t alert you either way, you’re just left trying to guess what’s going on.
 

cczhu

macrumors member
Aug 4, 2018
34
12
Here's how I justified upgrading to 5700XT. Totally unscientific, but you work with what you've got:

I gathered 4 pages worth of benchmarks from Geekbench for each of the following: 8-core w/either 5700 (8GB VRAM) or 5700XT (16GB VRAM), 10-core w/either 5700 (8GB VRAM) or 5700XT (16GB VRAM)

Deleted the highest and lowest score and averaged them out:

iMacs with =<64GB system RAM
8C/8GB (9 samples): 46023
8C/16GB (26 samples): 54232*
10C/8GB (2 samples): 43639
10C/16GB (15 samples): 55113

iMacs with >64GB system RAM
8C/8GB (2 samples): 44741
8C/16GB (37 samples): 54776
10C/8GB (3 samples): 46079
10C/16GB (67 samples): 54753

From the numbers, you can see that going from 8GB VRAM to 16GB makes a big difference. Going from 8-core to 10-core has minimal impact and even in some cases a lower score. And seems like going beyond 64GB of RAM provides no benefits at all. So in the end, I went for the sweet spot: 8-core i7/5700XT/64GB*

Errors to take into account: ppl submitting multiple benchmarks skewing the data, RAM installed non-optimally, non-controlled environment
great analysis. must say from the numbers 5700XT does make more sense
 
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