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choreo

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Jan 10, 2008
910
357
Midland, TX
Clicked on a file in a Finder window to select it and the cursor froze followed by screens going black and then computer logging me out. Power light still on solid. This happens 1-2 times per day. Once I tap the power button, I get a message that the computer had a problem followed by the Apple Logo, progress bar and Login screen. Everything opens back up in the state before shutdown and I can take the same action that caused the shutdown without an immediate problem?

This is the dialog box I get after I log back in, but it will not let me send the info...

ScreenFreeze.png
 
Clicked on a file in a Finder window to select it and the cursor froze followed by screens going black and then computer logging me out. Power light still on solid. This happens 1-2 times per day. Once I tap the power button, I get a message that the computer had a problem followed by the Apple Logo, progress bar and Login screen. Everything opens back up in the state before shutdown and I can take the same action that caused the shutdown without an immediate problem?

This is the dialog box I get after I log back in, but it will not let me send the info...

View attachment 935551
What was the file extension of the file you were trying to open?
 
Is this the ongoing issue from your previous post where the Apple rep resolved it? If yes, looks like a hardware issue. I would suggest removing any PCIe cards or USB drives that you installed and check for a while. There is definitely something not working as it should

Same behavior happened with my windows PC a couple of years back. It was faulty RAM.
 
What was the file extension of the file you were trying to open?
I just clicked on a "folder" actually to move it - did not double-click to open it.
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Is this the ongoing issue from your previous post where the Apple rep resolved it? If yes, looks like a hardware issue. I would suggest removing any PCIe cards or USB drives that you installed and check for a while. There is definitely something not working as it should

May or may not be connected to the issue that the Apple Tech was helping me with. This is really different in the sense that when I called Apple last Thursday, I could not get my Mac to startup at all after I force shut it down when it would not wake up, but the Tech said he thought that was because the OS was updating when I interrupted the process (which is possible) and I had to do an Internet Recovery to reinstall the system.

I should also mention that this has been happening since the second day I had the machine - before I even opened the case to add PCI cards/drives. I also just ran Techtool Pro 12 full suite today and everything passed with no problems detected.

I just received a request from B&H to review the new MacPro and I am having a tough time deciding on either one-star or five-stars! Except for this one issue everything else is working WAY BETTER than I anticipated. I had a list of about 40 things to watch for when moving from my 5,1 that I just knew would give me problems and none of those came to pass - even the multiple monitors and calibration works smoother than the 5,1.

One thing I DO notice is that the three monitors blink 2-3 times (going black for a split second) after logging in (which did not happen on the 5,1) - for this reason, I still think this problem may come back to the W5700X card implementation?
 
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It's hard to tell because you have quite a number of PCIe cards in there. Either your W5700X card still or one of your older cards.

The only way to test @darthaddie mentioned above is to remove your PCIe cards and go back to stock for a while. Once that's stable, you would slowly install more PCIe cards, but one by one until you find the culprit.
 
It's hard to tell because you have quite a number of PCIe cards in there. Either your W5700X card still or one of your older cards.

The only way to test @darthaddie mentioned above is to remove your PCIe cards and go back to stock for a while. Once that's stable, you would slowly install more PCIe cards, but one by one until you find the culprit.
More stable than it was before I added in cards? Because it was shutting down about once a day before I ever opened it up the first time. The MacPro came in 3 weeks sooner than expected and my cards had not arrived when I first started setting it up.
 
I just clicked on a "folder" actually to move it - did not double-click to open it.
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Was the folder in Downloads, Applications, Internal Drive, External Drive, Documents, etc.?
 
Was the folder in Downloads, Applications, Internal Drive, External Drive, Documents, etc.?
Open window on Desktop, but this usually happens when I am in Illustrator (3 times in AI). Usually right after launching AI and then trying to click on something.
 
Open window on Desktop, but this usually happens when I am in Illustrator (3 times in AI). Usually right after launching AI and then trying to click on something.
But this is inconsistent, right? It doesn't happen 100% of the time...?
 
Assuming you have updated to 10.15.6❓ Since I have updated I have not experienced the shutdown issue that I previously reported on. Also things just seem to be smoother and faster than they were on 10.15.5. 10.15.6, so far, has been a great update👍

Try completely removing AI and reinstalling it again.

Lou
 
Just had another auto-restart.

Illustrator was open, but not using it at the time. This time freeze/restart occurred when opening a small PNG screenshot in Photoshop as soon as I clicked the mouse on a tool.

Yes, I am run-in 10.15.6 since Thursday last week.

I will try reinstalling AI.
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But this is inconsistent, right? It doesn't happen 100% of the time...?
Correct.
 
One thing I DO notice is that the three monitors blink 2-3 times (going black for a split second) after logging in (which did not happen on the 5,1) - for this reason, I still think this problem may come back to the W5700X card implementation?

I also have a W5700X and see the same thing, albeit not every time (in fact not so much now). But with my older monitor it was even worse, there wasn't only this blinking, but also instances where I would see some kind of "snow" (similar to the artefact which old TV sets show when there is no signal), and sometimes that "snow" would even stick and not go away after a second. Shutting down the monitor (using the "real" power switch, not the "soft" power switch) and switching on again helped, but problem surfaced again from time to time. The newer monitor (also an EIZO, but thsis time in 4k) did not show the snow, but some blinking, but only one time right after I installed it.

As I see it - especially as you have a similar experience - I do not think the W5700 has a hardware issue (at least not one that wasn't just designed to be that way ...), but there seems to be a kind of negotiation problem between GPU and Monitor, so maybe EDID related? Not sure where it comes from but I would say its software / driver related, as I do not see the same behavior in Bootcamp. So you might also check another monitor to see if it behaves the same.

What I also had was one or two "hard locks" where the screen just completely froze, so I was forced to shutdown the machine by long pressing the power button. This was just at the beginning of my setup and hasn't appeared since, so I _hope_ it was just some setup glitch.

Other than that I, also use Adobe and hadn't any crashes or even shutdowns with it, but admittedly I am trying to avoid using that Adobe sh*tware as much as I can, so I haven't really thoroughly tested it. However, I also tested some older AE projects and they rendered just fine.

Finally, did you do a _thorough_ RAM test, including switching / taking out sticks? Those seemingly random crashes in different apps and with different symptoms are quite typical with faulty RAM, and that can be hard to detect. Start with rember, but be aware that rember cannot test all of your ram. For best results, memtest86 on a bootable DOS drive.

PS: also like you I had a freeze when waking from sleep, but fortunately only once, shortly after I made the mistake to test Big Sur (which in turn updated the firmware, so beware!). Not sure if this was the reason (KP logs also pointed out to an EFI issue), but wasn't able to reproduce since then.

All in all I am in a similar situation like you, as I also do not know if I should love or hate the machine. I mean the design and hardware is gorgeous, the cooling system top notch, but also the single core performance improvements where a bit "meh" compared to my 7 year old hackintosh. But worst of all many many little glitches (or sometimes worse) so I always have the feeling that my system is not 100% stable.

But my gut feeling tells me that most if not all of it is software related. As I do graphic design AND development, my setup is quite complex and also many things are modified and tweaked, including using things like Lilu/Innie.

Ah, and I remember also getting freezes while gaming in Bootcamp two or three times so I also think especially the W5700X isn't really well optimized driver wise (and that seems to be true for both win and mac), and that's also what I have heard from other sources on the internet. I think I would have been better of with the Vega II, if it only wasn't for that insane price ...
 
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Finally, did you do a _thorough_ RAM test, including switching / taking out sticks? Those seemingly random crashes in different apps and with different symptoms are quite typical with faulty RAM, and that can be hard to detect. Start with rember, but be aware that rember cannot test all of your ram. For best results, memtest86 on a bootable DOS drive.

I have not touched the RAM since the machine arrived. I plan to install 96-Gig of new RAM (and remove the stock ram) if I can ever track my problem down for sure (don't want to dump more money in this MacPro if it is a lost cause). I did run the Techtool Ram Test yesterday and everything showed "passed".
 
I have not touched the RAM since the machine arrived. I plan to install 96-Gig of new RAM (and remove the stock ram) if I can ever track my problem down for sure (don't want to dump more money in this MacPro if it is a lost cause). I did run the Techtool Ram Test yesterday and everything showed "passed".


It could surely be a faulty RAM module from Apple. Techtool would certify RAM, even faulty ones rarely. You never know. Your issue seems exactly like a RAM issue and I agree with @frankiee. Even reseating them could help.

Sometimes RAM modules have a fault in certain chips and only when the usage goes high they would produce an error.

Try running Prime95 for an hour and see if it crashes. This would rule out CPU/Motherboard issues.


I have been using AI and PS extensively for hours today and never faced such an issue.
 
I have not touched the RAM since the machine arrived. I plan to install 96-Gig of new RAM (and remove the stock ram) if I can ever track my problem down for sure (don't want to dump more money in this MacPro if it is a lost cause). I did run the Techtool Ram Test yesterday and everything showed "passed".

Also the Apple RAM could be faulty. How long did the Techtool Ram Test run? I don't now this software but to really detect RAM errors - especially since they can be quite subtle - you have to make many different types of tests, and ideally run them more than just once. So for a real good test of 32Gigs, this should take at least 8 hours. Also testing with being booted from macOS will make a lot of RAM unavailabele for testing since it is used by Apps and the OS. Therefore, booting via a DOS USB stick and then testing with MemTest86 is the gold standard for this procedure. You also can try the free macOS Rember app, which has basically the same engine as Memtest86 (AFIK), but still has the problem of unavailable RAM. So to test RAM on macOS, close all applications before doing so and do not interact with the machine while the tests run. Also, you could try the builtin Apple Diagnostics Test, also has a RAM test. To reach this press CMD-D at startup.

Try running Prime95 for an hour and see if it crashes. This would rule out CPU/Motherboard issues.

Yes, and if you really want to kick your machine, run Unigine heaven in an endless loop at the same time. If your MP survives this, you do not have any power or heat issues at least ;) And you will hear the fans in all their full glory ;)
 
Try running Prime95 for an hour and see if it crashes. This would rule out CPU/Motherboard issues.

Downloaded Prime95 and it said to contact developer for a more up to date version? Installed version 29.8b7 for Mac OS X
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Also the Apple RAM could be faulty. How long did the Techtool Ram Test run? I don't now this software but to really detect RAM errors - especially since they can be quite subtle - you have to make many different types of tests, and ideally run them more than just once. So for a real good test of 32Gigs, this should take at least 8 hours. Also testing with being booted from macOS will make a lot of RAM unavailabele for testing since it is used by Apps and the OS. Therefore, booting via a DOS USB stick and then testing with MemTest86 is the gold standard for this procedure. You also can try the free macOS Rember app, which has basically the same engine as Memtest86 (AFIK), but still has the problem of unavailable RAM. So to test RAM on macOS, close all applications before doing so and do not interact with the machine while the tests run. Also, you could try the builtin Apple Diagnostics Test, also has a RAM test. To reach this press CMD-D at startup.

Techtool test for Ram was about 10 minutes. Already ran Command-D, said all was good. I don't have anything with DOS or Windows (been all Mac for over 30 years)
 
Reason I asked above was - is 32GB enough? Adobe apps want a lot of RAM. I know Adobe recommends 16GB with AI. I'm allotting 65GB for PS on my system.
Lou


I just ordered 96GB, but I had 32GB on my 5,1 for 6 years running PS, AI, InD and Acrobat Pro together most every day and never had a freeze!

If I install the new 96GB and still get the freezes, it will probably eliminate the Ram as the source (expensive test!)
 
^^^^Ya, Me too, but that was with 10.14 and below. Maybe Adobe & 10.15 is different❓ Don't know - Just spitballing here1387914497.gif

But, from what you have posted it seems to be RAM or software related.

Lou
 
^^^^Ya, Me too, but that was with 10.14 and below. Maybe Adobe & 10.15 is different❓ Don't know - Just spitballing hereView attachment 936132

But, from what you have posted it seems to be RAM or software related.

Lou

I am running All the Adobe apps together on my 2015 MacBook Pro with only 16GB Ram and 10.15.5 and now 10.15.6 - no freezes.
 
^^^^Also - Have you tried running Unigine Valley or Heaven? Both of those exercise the GPU.

Lou
 
^^^^Also - Have you tried running Unigine Valley or Heaven? Both of those exercise the GPU.

Lou
No, but will they tell me what "causes" a freeze, or just "create" one? I can usually create one by just launching AI!

Seems like Console or something would give me a clue?
 
Techtool test for Ram was about 10 minutes.

Basically worthless.

If I install the new 96GB and still get the freezes, it will probably eliminate the Ram as the source

Absolutely not! If you already have faulty RAM it will not go away if you add more. If you want to test anything with your new RAM, install it but also REMOVE the installed RAM. If then crashes go away, you likely had a memory problem with the Apple RAM.

No, but will they tell me what "causes" a freeze, or just "create" one? I can usually create one by just launching AI!

Prime95 and the Unigine Demos are used to "stress test" a system, i.e. put it under heavy load. I would recommend doing this on fresh machines to see if they are stable at full load and if there is any problem regarding power supply or cooling. But this has not necessarily to be the cause of your crashes (I actually doubt it), it is just another test.

Seems like Console or something would give me a clue?

Maybe. Open Console and select Crash Reports. You should see here what App(s) have crashed, and there should be logs that tell more about the reason, but that may be hard to interpret.
 
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