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Still Waiting For 4k Downloads. Would You Pay A Premium?

Lee_Mac

Lee_Mac

macrumors regular
Original poster
Apr 18, 2020
167
141
As years tick by and no actual sign of downloadable 4K purchased films. Would pay a small additional fee to be able to download and save the 4K film you've actually purchase, and not the 1080 version?
I know it's all about the money for the studios, but I just don't getting after all these years, why they are still holding back with offering actual downloads?
 
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I would not pay a premium. My 4K television is at home. My internet connection at home is always on. Why would I want to pay to be able to watch movies in the unlikely event that the internet is down? That would be like buying insurance–insurance I can do without.
 
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I really am not bothered about "downloading" in 4k. i'm fine streaming them on the apple tv, but I have no need for 4k on a small iphone/ipad screen. 1080p and 4k are indistinguishable on that small scale.
 
andrewvonpelt said:
I really am not bothered about "downloading" in 4k. i'm fine streaming them on the apple tv, but I have no need for 4k on a small iphone/ipad screen. 1080p and 4k are indistinguishable on that small scale.
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There are plenty of threads here addressing purchased content disappearing from the store and unable to stream. I have experienced that myself. After that happened to me, I started downloading everything. Downloads will always play.

I'm extremely disappointed in the fact we cannot download 4K DV/HDR copies of purchases. I might be willing to pay a minimal 4K download fee if that is what it would take. I just don't feel we should have to. After all we purchased it in 4K.
 
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chabig said:
Why would I want to pay to be able to watch movies in the unlikely event that the internet is down? T
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Actually, even with downloaded content, there is still a good chance that you will not be able to play DRM content from Apple without internet.

iTunes periodically authenticates your login, and this requires an internet connection. If you lose internet, iTunes will not be able to authenticate your Apple ID, and this prevents playing the content using the computer app on ATV.

But as @niteflyr already mention, downloading purchases in 4k has to do with content being removed from the iTunes Store, sometimes making your purchases disappear. Right now, the only way to play this content, is to download it. But, downloads are currently limited to 1080p.

chabig said:
That would be like buying insurance–insurance I can do without.
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A better analogy would be Apple/Studios occasionally coming into your home to take back Blu ray movies that you purchased, and you paying extra (the premium) to keep them from doing so.

Having 4k download versions would at least give people a way of playing content that they purchased.

andrewvonpelt said:
I really am not bothered about "downloading" in 4k. i'm fine streaming them on the apple tv, but I have no need for 4k on a small iphone/ipad screen. 1080p and 4k are indistinguishable on that small scale.
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True, but not really the reason why many would want downloadable 4k versions of purchased content.

Lee_Mac said:
ould pay a small additional fee to be able to download and save the 4K film you've actually purchase, and not the 1080 version?
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Maybe at some point I would have, but not anymore. I have given up on my digital purchases all together and just gone back to physical and started using Plex for my media.

I have made a few hundred purchases via iTunes over the years, but between Apple hardly ever updating the Computer app on tvOS, and the fact that Plex is so much better, I wished I would have given up on iTunes way sooner, and just built my physical library.

I try to find Blu rays with digital copies and I do add the to Movies Anywhere (then to iTunes), but it isn't a deal breaker if it doesn't have a digital copy.
 
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Juicy Box said:
iTunes periodically authenticates your login, and this requires an internet connection. If you lose internet, iTunes will not be able to authenticate your Apple ID, and this prevents playing the content using the computer app on ATV.
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That has been a problem for me in the past when my internet connection was down. Nothing would play on my two AppleTV 3's - not even DVD's that I ripped myself. The same movies would play fine if they were loaded directly on a Mac however. My internet connection is now very robust and I don't know if this is still the case, but there are some old threads about this here. The work-around was to airplay the movies from your Mac to the AppleTV

Regarding 4k downloads... no interest. I don't have a 4k TV and have no plans to get one. :)
 
Boyd01 said:
That has been a problem for me in the past when my internet connection was down. Nothing would play on my two AppleTV 3's - not even DVD's that I ripped myself. The same movies would play fine if they were loaded directly on a Mac however. My internet connection is now very robust and I don't know if this is still the case, but there are some old threads about this here.
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Yeah, that is really what annoyed me, my own personal content not being able to be played.

Plex doesn't have that issue, and it allows local playback without internet.


Boyd01 said:
The work-around was to airplay the movies from your Mac to the AppleTV
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IIRC, this worked for personal content, but still would not work for purchases. It would AirPlay, but just a blank window. Sound, but no picture.
 
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As a couple others have said it’s having the local copy of what was purchased and not a downgraded version. I don’t load all my content as they studious are way to happy to bring a new version out and quietly drop a previous purchase. Several films over the years have done that from my purchases. 4gig download and storage these days isn’t massive for some.

@satcomer Nit sure what you mean about broadcasting in 1080, 4K HDR broadcast has been a thing for a quite a few years.
 
Lee_Mac said:
As years tick by and no actual sign of downloadable 4K purchased films. Would pay a small additional fee to be able to download and save the 4K film you've actually purchase, and not the 1080 version?
I know it's all about the money for the studios, but I just don't getting after all these years, why they are still holding back with offering actual downloads?
Click to expand...
nope. discs for some movies only because nothing beats having the disc. your tv will upscale 1080p to 4K.
 
I use to download all my purchases but it was just taking up too much hard drive space and to be honest when streaming from Apple TV improved I was using the home sharing option less and less. I've abandoned my library when it got to 8TB and I just don't think I can justify the cost of hard drives etc for something that I don't need to rely on like I use to.

Having said that and on a slightly different note, I do wish they offered lossless music downloads for iTunes purchases as I would happily pay extra for that.
 
satcomer said:
If you want 4K TV the don't fret because sometime I this year new ATC standard for a new protocol for antenna transmission form 1080p! Look up for self!
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Not sure what the Air Traffic Protocol has to do with Apple TV.
 
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Buy the 4K Blu Ray and make your own. You'll actually own it and own a "hard copy" backup just in case of storage disaster. It's also a less compressed version for anyone interested in maximizing 4K QUALITY.

Trusting any "the cloud" service is needlessly injecting middlemen between you and (not really) "your" data. As people keep discovering when they buy from "the cloud," what they think they own can be taken away at any time. I'm yet to see any such story of a studio coming into someone's home, deleting their digital file and also repossessing a blu ray disc.

"Paying a premium" still doesn't buy real ownership. Buying "the cloud" means "lifetime lease" at very best but, in this kind of media, "limited-time" lease until the Studio pulls the file or kills it and then re-releases it in another version... or the provider shuts down, etc.

Anyone wanting to pay a premium, should put that money towards a disc. If you can be a bit patient on WHEN you buy, you can likely find discs that cost the same or less than the digital (lease) version costs, so you may have to pay no premium at all to actually OWN a copy.

This is the best way to go if you want to actually own movies. Otherwise, you are only renting them with the owner- or any other middleman- able to take them out of your accessibility at any time. That doesn't happen with a disc.
 
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HobeSoundDarryl said:
Buy the 4K Blu Ray and make your own. You'll actually own it and own a "hard copy" backup just in case of storage disaster. It's also a less compressed version for anyone interested in maximizing 4K QUALITY.

Trusting any "the cloud" service is needlessly injecting middlemen between you and (not really) "your" data. As people keep discovering when they buy from "the cloud," what they think they own can be taken away at any time. I'm yet to see any such story of a studio coming into someone's home, deleting their digital file and also repossessing a blu ray disc.

"Paying a premium" still doesn't buy real ownership. Buying "the cloud" means "lifetime lease" at very best but, in this kind of media, "limited-time" lease until the Studio pulls the file or kills it and then re-releases it in another version... or the provider shuts down, etc.

Anyone wanting to pay a premium, should put that money towards a disc. If you can be a bit patient on WHEN you buy, you can likely find discs that cost the same or less than the digital (lease) version costs, so you may have to pay no premium at all to actually OWN a copy.

This is the best way to go if you want to actually own movies. Otherwise, you are only renting them with the owner- or any other middleman- able to take them out of your accessibility at any time. That doesn't happen with a disc.
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I’d agree except for if you download the digital version then it’s yours to keep in theory.

If you buy physical and then rip, it’s very time consuming and how do you get 4K quality, is handbrake still the one to use? Plus you have issues with artwork in Apple TV library and also streaming to a tv isn’t straightforward in my experience as if I do home sharing via Apple TV it always seems to take forever to buffer.
 
Yes, if you download and keep a copy (and ideally a backup offsite just in case) you are likely covered. However, there is the remote chance that seller could exit the space someday. Digital copies are DRM'd by the seller. If the seller quits/shuts down/closes, there may be no server to "check in" to validate DRM'd playback. While pretty unlikely with a behemoth like Apple, there is that remote possibility. Even the digital copy is not really owned- just lifetime leased, where "lifetime" might as well be asterisked with many exclusions/exceptions.

Rip your own and you already have a physical backup on hand to cover ANY technology scenario. The ultimate, ultimate fallback is playing the disk itself. Yes, it is a hassle to rip video, but once you get the process down, you can let your computer do the work in the background, while you sleep. Once it's done, your digital copy has no DRM and thus no hooks from afar from any other player.

If one wants to buy digital copies, I very much encourage downloads to local storage AND backing that up to at least 1 or 2 other drives, one of which should be stored off site. All scenarios where you just trust the "cloud librarian" to take care of "your*" video collection is begging for disappointment... as can be seen in thread after thread of "my movie/show disappeared from my collection."
 
Lee_Mac said:
As years tick by and no actual sign of downloadable 4K purchased films. Would pay a small additional fee to be able to download and save the 4K film you've actually purchase, and not the 1080 version?
I know it's all about the money for the studios, but I just don't getting after all these years, why they are still holding back with offering actual downloads?
Click to expand...
When you purchase a 4K movie online it can only be played using a source that using HDMI HDCP to the display. You do not own that 4K movie and cannot do whatever you want with the digital content, all you did by the purchase is have a unlimited term license to play it from licensed streaming VoD host. You are permitted to download a HD copy that is keyed to your sign on most of the time. If the device you are playing the file on loses it retained authentication to the encrypted file, you can't play it.

Physical media is more mobile as it can played on any licensed 4K BD player. Its also usually allows you to have a 4K streaming rights to licensed VoD hosts. Additionally you also can download a HD copy of the movie to the computer (same as before).

If for some reason the file or TV content is legally retracted by a court order, you can still play the physical media, the streaming and backup would be gone. If you bought that as a title from a streaming VoD they can offer a credit back so you didn't loose any money.

All TV and Films are consider works of art, no matter how you acquire the content you are never the owner and can not exhibit it publicly or make money off of your physical media or VoD playback.

So to answer the question why are they holding back, its from the point of view they allow you to watch the content permanently on media and streaming in 4K, they do not see any reason for you to have access to this content in a digital file you might crack, RIP, and share on torrents.
 
entropyfl said:
it’s very time consuming and how do you get 4K quality, is handbrake still the one to use?
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To get the best audio and video quality you rip the disk with makeMKV and play via a suitable player such as Plex or Infuse.

HobeSoundDarryl said:
However, there is the remote chance that seller could exit the space someday. Digital copies are DRM'd by the seller. If the seller quits/shuts down/closes, there may be no server to "check in" to validate DRM'd playback. While pretty unlikely with a behemoth like Apple, there is that remote possibility.
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While pretty unlikely with a behemoth like Apple, there is that remote possibility.

Apple isn't really in the picture here for content that it doesn't own. They don't own much - just their original content on Apple TV+. If a studio decides to revoke the authorization for some reason there is nothing Apple can do. There have been several posts where that has happened.
 
HDFan said:
To get the best audio and video quality you rip the disk with makeMKV and play via a suitable player such as Plex or Infuse.



While pretty unlikely with a behemoth like Apple, there is that remote possibility.

Apple isn't really in the picture here for content that it doesn't own. They don't own much - just their original content on Apple TV+. If a studio decides to revoke the authorization for some reason there is nothing Apple can do. There have been several posts where that has happened.
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Yes but the problem I have with plex is I find it’s not as intuitive to use and tends to confuse other family members plus I find artwork never syncs properly (granted it’s been years since I tried and maybe it’s better). Does makemkv just rip an iso file or encode into mp4?

Also with regards to authorisation, years ago I bought the Simpson’s movie and for a a few months it was removed from the store but it always played my local copy I downloaded from iTunes so hopefully that would still be the case
 
niteflyr said:
After all we purchased it in 4K.
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Actually that’s not strictly true as iTunes has two quality options SD and Higher Quality.
You actually buy HD and get granted access to 4K if available, if you log into your AppleID and look at your purchase history you’ll see HD next to every invoice regardless if they were 4K upon purchase.

US users do have a slight advantage though as if they have Movies Anywhere then a movie thats purchased while in 4K via iTunes from a supported studio will show as such in Movies Anywhere.
 
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