Stolen iPhone4 from "Gate Checked Baggage" on UNITED

jmmo20 said:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subscriber_Identity_Module

Whatever, we've had GSM for almost 20 years in europe and we're pretty familiar with it.

The fact that you can activate iphones using dummy sim cards used for phonebook transfer should tell you something about your "decisions, decisions" to be made.
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Not sure what you are trying to say here. Europeans don't happen to have a monopoly on GSM. There are quite a few Americans that happen to know about it, live with it every day. So to some it is not a mystery or voodoo science. Pretty straight forward actually. Heck there might have even been a few American that happen to have been sitting in Helsinki when Radiolinja made the first GSM call. Hmmm...... So buy your logic, if my Nokia (maybe I am sitting in Espoo right now) gets stolen, I shouldn't call Sonera, my operator, the one's who actually can provision my phone, but I should call Nokia to have them block it? Right.... I'll get right on that.
 
sapporobaby said:
Not sure what you are trying to say here. Europeans don't happen to have a monopoly on GSM. There are quite a few Americans that happen to know about it, live with it every day. So to some it is not a mystery or voodoo science. Pretty straight forward actually. Heck there might have even been a few American that happen to have been sitting in Helsinki when Radiolinja made the first GSM call. Hmmm...... So buy your logic, if my Nokia (maybe I am sitting in Espoo right now) gets stolen, I shouldn't call Sonera, my operator, the one's who actually can provision my phone, but I should call Nokia to have them block it? Right.... I'll get right on that.
Click to expand...

where in earth you get to that conclusion from my posts?

I'm simply saying that iphone activation process through itunes is carrier-agnostic. Apple's servers do NOT contact your carrier servers to see if activation is OK.

Once the iphone is activated by Apple and you put a sim card in, the iphone baseband authenticates the sim card encryption key, toghether with the iphone's IMEI in the carrier servers.

Nokia phones do not need to be activated, so the only chance to made stolen nokias a paper weight is to blacklist the IMEI.

As we can see, AT&T doesn't seem too willing to do so, and while most countries in the world do blacklist stolen IMEIs, these blacklists aren't shared across borders so there's nothing stopping an unlocked stolen iphone from the UK to be sold and used in Italy, for example.

That's why I (and many others) think Apple should keep a blacklist of iphone serial nubmers, to stop them from being activated after being reported stolen.

And all this conversation started because you said

Do you know what a BSS or OSS is in relationship to a mobile operator? I'll explain it again. Apple has nothing to do with the actual activation of the phone. AT&T does. Apple simply passes your data to AT&T's BSS/OSS and the phone is provisioned. Soooooooooooo again, you need to go to AT&T and complain to them, and you are correct this is not rocket science. It is telecommunications science.​
 
bruinsrme said:
I have been avoiding this thread because I didn't want to be the ******.
thank you for stepping up.

A couple of things I wouldn't have done.
1. bought an iphone while traveling
2. put it in any luggage, carry on or suit case, back pack yes.
3. let it out of my sight
4. arrive at the gate lately. (this is the biggie)

Sorry too many wrongs here.

By the way, locks whether built into the suitcase or external must be FAA approved or they will be cut/removed in order to inspect the bags.
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+100

Never let it out of your sight. An item like this needs to be kept with you, on your person, at all times. Or, it can be stowed safely or locked away somewhere where you can get to it quickly and easily at any time.

Not to mention what we might have on our iPhones - vnc access, financial information, passwords, you name it. Worst case, there's MobileMe's Find My iPhone and the remote wipe feature. But that still doesn't get your $ back.
 
eawmp1 said:
These locks are no guarantee that someone will not commit a crime of opportunity. However a popped lock indicator might have made you check the back at the destination airport and initiate the claim there. The most important lesson is that if you can't afford to lose something, NEVER check it in as luggage on an airline. Carry it or ship it. You have very few rights when it comes to lost luggage or stolen luggage contents.

Sorry, OP. :mad:
Click to expand...

Pretty good advice. Unfortunately, we all have to expect the worst and take the best precautions.
 
had you filed a claim in 24 hours or no? if yes, i would give hell to united until they gave me the owners phone number and then make him personally buy me a new iphone..or at least review the claim. hopefully you still have the receipt apple emailed you
 
TorontoLRT said:
United is probably the worst airline known to man. I've never been on a single flight of theirs where it hasn't been delayed, cancelled or otherwise screwed up.
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Honestly, all American airlines suck. Not even a decent/free meal on a 5-6-hour flight. WTF.
 
Blaine said:
:mad::mad::mad:

Another reason why I hate people.

And it's really sorry that the big companies are treating you this way. They always look for some loophole to avoid reimbursing you.

-sigh- : /
Click to expand...

How do you live with yourself:confused:

Jesus loves you;)
 
Thank you for your supports.

I've responded UNITED's denial letter on Monday, September 13 with my proofs. It has been almost 1 week, I haven't received a single reply from them, yet. :mad:

In my whole life, I've never ever checked a baggage at the gate, so I wasn't even sure what's the procedure, where it is going, is it bad or good thing etc.

And for the checked baggages, indeed, we have TSA approved locks, and we never carry our valuables in a checked-baggage.

All those things happened less then 1 minute. We even couldn't think to take out the medications for my wife's bug-bites. Again, I accept that we were late to our flight, when we arrived to gate, they were still counting the passengers, but this shouldn't be our punishment.

For people who questioned whether my reporting was on time or not, here is the two screenshots I took when I was responding UA's denial letter.

This is from my sent-box, please notice the time&date.
sent.jpg


This is from my inbox, please notice the time&date. This email sent from UA in-response to my submission.
inbox.jpg
 
jmmo20 said:
where in earth you get to that conclusion from my posts?

I'm simply saying that iphone activation process through itunes is carrier-agnostic. Apple's servers do NOT contact your carrier servers to see if activation is OK.

Once the iphone is activated by Apple and you put a sim card in, the iphone baseband authenticates the sim card encryption key, toghether with the iphone's IMEI in the carrier servers.

Nokia phones do not need to be activated, so the only chance to made stolen nokias a paper weight is to blacklist the IMEI.

As we can see, AT&T doesn't seem too willing to do so, and while most countries in the world do blacklist stolen IMEIs, these blacklists aren't shared across borders so there's nothing stopping an unlocked stolen iphone from the UK to be sold and used in Italy, for example.

That's why I (and many others) think Apple should keep a blacklist of iphone serial nubmers, to stop them from being activated after being reported stolen.

And all this conversation started because you said

Do you know what a BSS or OSS is in relationship to a mobile operator? I'll explain it again. Apple has nothing to do with the actual activation of the phone. AT&T does. Apple simply passes your data to AT&T's BSS/OSS and the phone is provisioned. Soooooooooooo again, you need to go to AT&T and complain to them, and you are correct this is not rocket science. It is telecommunications science.​
Click to expand...

All phones need to be activated. Nokia, Samsung, etc... all do this in the factory. Apple does it through iTunes so that it can register the phone into their systems. Now this is where the fun comes in. Apple simply passes the phone info, IMEI, ECCID, and other data along to AT&T so they AT&T can set up the billing, provisioning, etc.... Apple can only activate the phone to say to AT&T that this phone is okay to use on your network and we hand it over to you. AT&T then goes about its biz of screwing over the customer, dropping calls, etc.... Apple cannot take a phone out of service based in the IMEI simply because their systems are not set up for it. Apple doesn't have HLR's or VLR's or OMC/OMC-S to monitor data. This functional all rests with the operator. The OP should contact his operator and have them block the phone. If the operator is able to pass the stolen info back to Apple and Apple can process this info, then there might be a chance that they can block it but as I said, this is not their business.
 
this conversation is beyond absurd.!!!

Iphones activation process has NOTHING to do with GSM/3G provisioning.
The fact that Apple and AT&T makes it easy for US consumers to set up their contracts through itunes does NOT mean that the actual device activation is handled by AT&T at all.

All at&t activates is the SIM CARD, not the device itself (the iphone).
And even then, when you restore your phone, it needs reactivation. Well. during this reactivation NOTHING NEEDS TO BE REACTIVATED ON AT&T's END SINCE YOUR SIM CARD IS ALREADY ACTIVE.

And no, nokia phones do not need to be activated.
You can buy one and put whatever damn sim card from anywhere in the world and use it, so long as the sim card had already been activated by the user.

It's a totally different scenario from the iPhone.

iphone activation =! sim card activation/gsm provisining !!!!!!!


and why on earth you talking about HLR or VLR?
they have nothing to do with activation. They are the servers that keep track of where your sim card is on, with whcih IMEI and in which country.

when you register a new sim card with your carrier, they add the sim's ECCID to those two servers. Again, nothing, NOTHING to do with iphone activations through iTunes.

**SUPPORTING EVIDENCE:

- You can activate your iphone with a sim that is not active by your carrier
- You can activate your iphone with a sim card that has been deactivated for years
- You can, sometimes, activate your iphone with dummy phonebook sim cards
- When your iphone is unlocked, you can activate it with whatever damn sim card you prefer, real or dummy, active or inactive.

sapporobaby said:
All phones need to be activated. Nokia, Samsung, etc... all do this in the factory. Apple does it through iTunes so that it can register the phone into their systems. Now this is where the fun comes in. Apple simply passes the phone info, IMEI, ECCID, and other data along to AT&T so they AT&T can set up the billing, provisioning, etc.... Apple can only activate the phone to say to AT&T that this phone is okay to use on your network and we hand it over to you. AT&T then goes about its biz of screwing over the customer, dropping calls, etc.... Apple cannot take a phone out of service based in the IMEI simply because their systems are not set up for it. Apple doesn't have HLR's or VLR's or OMC/OMC-S to monitor data. This functional all rests with the operator. The OP should contact his operator and have them block the phone. If the operator is able to pass the stolen info back to Apple and Apple can process this info, then there might be a chance that they can block it but as I said, this is not their business.
Click to expand...
 
sevimli said:
Again, I accept that we were late to our flight, when we arrived to gate, they were still counting the passengers, but this shouldn't be our punishment.
Click to expand...

Actually it should be your punishment. Simply admit your mistake and move on. Why come to a forum like this and complain when it would have never happened if you followed the rules.
 
Jetaray said:
Actually it should be your punishment. Simply admit your mistake and move on. Why come to a forum like this and complain when it would have never happened if you followed the rules.
Click to expand...

You can show up to a flight three hours early and still have your carry-on luggage "gate checked". Because so many airlines are charging for checked luggage, the overhead bins often completely fill before the flight is half- to three-quarters full. As you are called to board depending on your position in the airplane, this means anyone can get gate-checked.

Its also important to note that you often don't know you will be gate-checked until you get onto the ramp and are about to enter the airplane... you don't get any warning and an airline employee personally carries the bags down a staircase to the cargo hold. So, I feel the OPs pain... when this happens to you you have only a quick minute or two to pull any valuables out of the bag before they are whisked away...
 
Wow, OK, you are saying if you are late to the gate it is a standard procedure that someone has to steal something from you?

Moreover, when we made to the our seats (tail section), we found several overhead bins were EMPTY.

There were plenty rooms for our baggages, but flight attendants saw couple of guys arguing at the very front of the plane for their carry-on baggages, then they decided bins are full for whole plane without checking it out...
 
sevimli said:
Wow, OK, you are saying if you are late to the gate it is a standard procedure that someone has to steal something from you?

Moreover, when we made to the our seats (tail section), we found several overhead bins were EMPTY.

There were plenty rooms for our baggages, but flight attendants saw couple of guys arguing at the very front of the plane for their carry-on baggages, then they decided bins are full for whole plane without checking it out...
Click to expand...

That is not what was said. Way to deflect blame. Airlines are city buses in the sky. Treat your valuables as you would on a bus in an inner city with a crime problem.
 
It's terrible that it happened, yes. Nobody is disagreeing on that part.

The issue that many people are having is that you seem to take no personal responsibility. Yes, United may have made a mistake, but you did too, unfortunately. The iPhone is/was your property, and you really should have been more careful with it. I understand that it may have been a last second switch to having your bags checked, but that iPhone should have been one of the things you grabbed. This is why airlines recommend you keep your valuables with you.
 
sevimli said:
Thank you for your supports.

I've responded UNITED's denial letter on Monday, September 13 with my proofs. It has been almost 1 week, I haven't received a single reply from them, yet. :mad:

In my whole life, I've never ever checked a baggage at the gate, so I wasn't even sure what's the procedure, where it is going, is it bad or good thing etc.

And for the checked baggages, indeed, we have TSA approved locks, and we never carry our valuables in a checked-baggage.

All those things happened less then 1 minute. We even couldn't think to take out the medications for my wife's bug-bites. Again, I accept that we were late to our flight, when we arrived to gate, they were still counting the passengers, but this shouldn't be our punishment.

For people who questioned whether my reporting was on time or not, here is the two screenshots I took when I was responding UA's denial letter.

This is from my sent-box, please notice the time&date.
sent.jpg


This is from my inbox, please notice the time&date. This email sent from UA in-response to my submission.
inbox.jpg
Click to expand...

In replay to their denail send those screen shots to them and explain that you complied with their 24 hour requirement. Point out to them that UA failed and UA lost the reports. You sent them in on time. It is not your fault that they lost them.
 
sapporobaby said:
All phones need to be activated. Nokia, Samsung, etc... all do this in the factory. Apple does it through iTunes so that it can register the phone into their systems. Now this is where the fun comes in. Apple simply passes the phone info, IMEI, ECCID, and other data along to AT&T so they AT&T can set up the billing, provisioning, etc.... Apple can only activate the phone to say to AT&T that this phone is okay to use on your network and we hand it over to you. AT&T then goes about its biz of screwing over the customer, dropping calls, etc.... Apple cannot take a phone out of service based in the IMEI simply because their systems are not set up for it. Apple doesn't have HLR's or VLR's or OMC/OMC-S to monitor data. This functional all rests with the operator. The OP should contact his operator and have them block the phone. If the operator is able to pass the stolen info back to Apple and Apple can process this info, then there might be a chance that they can block it but as I said, this is not their business.
Click to expand...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but since it is an iPhone 4, it must be activated with the OP's number, and he will have to provide the SSN to do so. So, the phone will be useless, correct?
 
chrmjenkins said:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but since it is an iPhone 4, it must be activated with the OP's number, and he will have to provide the SSN to do so. So, the phone will be useless, correct?
Click to expand...


Wrong. an iphone4 can be activated with any AT&T sim card, even if it has no service at all.

they can even be hacktivated or activated with a dummy phoenbook sim card.
 
Jetaray said:
Actually it should be your punishment. Simply admit your mistake and move on. Why come to a forum like this and complain when it would have never happened if you followed the rules.
Click to expand...

wow, punishment for being late? u never late to work? u never late to class? and what was your punishment? getting ur ass kicked? u r such an ass.

Good Luck OP, just ignore those ignorant ****s
 
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