Storage strategy for DV and HDV

Discussion in 'Digital Video' started by Marlin, Jun 11, 2008.

  1. Marlin macrumors member

    Joined:
    May 29, 2008
    #1
    I have over 100 Hi8 tapes and was lucky enough to get an older JVC camera from a lady down the street which works with imovie 5. FCP won't capture sound from the camera so that's out. I want to establish an easy workflow and save all the tapes to a DVD as well as copying the Quicktime files to the FCP scratch disk. With the new HDV camera I'm getting I plan on going straight to the scratch disk and coping those to a DVD as well. All this so I wont have to run the camera again in case I lose the Scratch Disk. My questions are:

    1. Should I burn the Disk from the quicktime files in imovie, and how { use the burn folder, Disk Utility or Toast etc.} and what format?

    2. Should I get it all on to the Scratch Disk and then burn the Disks from there and in what format.

    3. Does anyone see where this strategy could be improved or is it wrong to start with. It will take a lot of time and I don't want to even think about doing it over. Thanks ever so much.
     
  2. killr_b macrumors 6502a

    killr_b

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2005
    Location:
    Suckerfornia
    #2
    Hi Marlin. Welcome to Macrumors.

    So, you've got Hi8 tapes and a loaner camera, and you don't want to need the camera again to work with the media, is that right?

    First off, I would ask what kind of mac you have and how much storage. Without that info this answer will be less specific.

    If you need to capture in iMovie, then you should save the project file to your storage disk, the one you're using as your FCP scratch disk, and the format to capture in will be regular DV. Once it's all captured you can import those DV files into FCP for regular editing. They don't have to be in the "capture scratch" folder of FCP.

    Ultimately you're going to find that you'll need close to 2 terabytes to store all those tapes as DV files. You'll need a DVD for every tape if you want to do it that way (which I don't recommend) and it will be at a loss because mpeg2 is a lossy, highly compressed codec. If you wanted to store all the vids as DV files on DVDs, then you would need somewhere around 400 DVDs.

    HDV is my most hated codec of all time. Just my personal opinion on it.
    But on the plus side it's the same size as DV.
     
  3. Poeben macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2004
    #3
    I don't know if its still like this, but....DV captured by iMovie (dv_stream) cannot be used directly in FCP. You will need to render the audio before you can really work with it in FCP sequences. It might make more sense to archive after you do the audio rendering in order to save time in the future.
     
  4. Marlin thread starter macrumors member

    Joined:
    May 29, 2008
    #4
    Thanks Killer-B

    I have a MBP 2.6GHZ 4GB RAM and a G-Tech 500GB HD. Networked with an old G4, 8 years old all running on Leopard. Maybe I should explain my predicament,

    Some of these tapes go back 25 years and around 1999 I acquired a Sony camera that allowed transfer for editing. Everyone was on to me to make DVD.s so I would select various tapes and make a disk, but did not save any of the work. The tapes are of Big Game fishing with famous people and world record fish I'v caught over all the years, many exceeding the 1000 lbs mark. In 2005 I made two disks for an offshore Yacht Co.I represented and won best video and display at the Miami International Boat Show with imovie if you can believe it. The content did it of course.

    The tapes are of great value to me, ESPN has inquired but I want to do this myself. I'v been ill for several years but ready now to resume.

    The way I understand you is I should put the imovie files directly on to HD and worry about DVD's later. Name the reels/projects and clips and then use FCP to retrieve the the takes I want to make into a sequence. If I don't get a HDV camera what should I get. I'm going to sea in Sept. and need a new camera.
     
  5. Marlin thread starter macrumors member

    Joined:
    May 29, 2008
    #5
    Thanks for the advice. I'v solved the problem by getting a Advc-110 converter and will go directly to FCP. I'll probably do disks later once I have it all in the HD,
     
  6. killr_b macrumors 6502a

    killr_b

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2005
    Location:
    Suckerfornia
    #6
    Well Marlin, I would definitely invest in a large external drive, like the 2 terabyte LaCie Big Disk (about $700), or spend a few minutes on Newegg.com, I saw some external HDs called "personal RAID solutions" for only $2-300.

    Once you have your vids on your external it can live with you through computer upgrades and failures, and in 25- 50 years you can transfer it to whatever the new storage media (probably SSD) will be.

    Poeben may be right about the audio render in FCP, but you can make life easier on yourself by just unchecking the preference to play beeps over unrendered audio - shown in pic.
     

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  7. Flynnstone macrumors 65816

    Flynnstone

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2003
    Location:
    Cold beer land
    #7
    Do you want to catalog as well?
    I use a program called Foottrack. Kind of like iPhoto for video.
    I converted some Hi8 tapes to DV a little while ago. I used my Sony miniDV camcorder as a pass thru device.
     
  8. Marlin thread starter macrumors member

    Joined:
    May 29, 2008
    #8
    Thanks for the advice killer-B I was hoping you hadn't gone away.

    I was thinking I wouldn't have the audio issue by using the converter if it is all captured but I'll follow your precautions. Just a few more ?'s if you don't mind.

    1. I was going to order the G-tech raid for the scratch disk. None of my tapes are full and I reckon about 60 hours is all I'll want out of the whole batch and use the 500GB HD for storing the final movies. But maybe I should get something better for the scratch disk. When I return from sea in January I'll get a new Mac Pro to actually do all the editing. I'll also burn all the disks in dv format as I proceed so I'll have (HD,disks and the tapes} as achieves.

    2. Should I use s-video or RCA on the converter and (+R or -R} to burn disks.
     
  9. zioxide macrumors 603

    zioxide

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2006
    #9
    You're going to import and convert the video to DV and then burn the DV files to DVDs?

    Just remember that DV takes up 13GB an hour, so you'd need like 4 DVDs for every hour of footage and you'd have to split it in to ~15 minute clips.

    If you're doing a project this big, you could consider buying a blu-ray burner, so you could fit 25GB on a single disk.
     
  10. killr_b macrumors 6502a

    killr_b

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2005
    Location:
    Suckerfornia
    #10
    People on this board rave about the G-Tech. I recommend at least 1 terabyte.

    The DVD idea is still, weird. Maybe you could rent a miniDV deck for like $25 bucks, buy some miniDV tapes and make DV copies of your Hi8.
     
  11. Marlin thread starter macrumors member

    Joined:
    May 29, 2008
    #11
    All the replies are terrific as I live way out in boonies and no one is around to offer advice.

    My plan now is to get all the video onto a big HD (scratch disk} the best I can find so I wont have regrets latter, suggestions welcome. Look into the catalog idea and then wait till I get a new Mac Pro and a blue ray burner then use toast to burn it all.

    Before anyone gets away I have one more request. I'v decided to do all the rest of my filming (given my age and most of my filming is over) in SD so everyone can watch it. What camera would you all recommend? I need to get one soon.

    Thanks to all of you.....Marlin
     
  12. Randor macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2008
    Location:
    Vancouver, Canada
    #12
    Importing Your Video

    You asked a couple of importing questions a few posts ago. Some suggestions:

    Always use S-Video cables over Composite (RCA) cables whenever possible.

    I would expect to use a lot more disk space with DV that has been converted from analog video. It contains a lot more noise which means it does not compress very well at all. This also slows down the rendering process.

    I noticed this a lot when importing VHS tapes into FCP6 with my ADVC-100.

    You mentioned using logging software to track all the tapes. I would consider this absolutely essential on a project of this size. A number of years ago I wrote my own video tracking software, and have over 400 tapes catalogued which include timecode in and out points for each piece captured along with dates, times and descriptions and keywords for several thousand scenes. It spits out EDL's for Premiere automagically so I only have to enter things once. I'm working on a FCP EDL generator.

    It really works great when you want a list of every scene containing a name or event. It returns a list of tapes and timecodes of exactly what you want and can spit out a batch capture file. You can load that file into Premiere (working on an FCP equivalent) which tells you which tapes to load and then captures just the sections of tapes you want.

    If you don't have any software, at least use an Excel spreadsheet or equivalent to track your tapes. I would also recommend creating a unique reel number for each tape and only writing that on the tape.

    If you don't have some sort of logging system then you will go insane trying to find that one clip on that one tape at 3:00 am.

    The hard part of course is being disciplined enough to enter all the information into whatever system you choose. Believe me, it is worth it in the long run.

    Hmmm. I'm getting a little long-winded. Hope this helps a little.

    Randy
     
  13. Marlin thread starter macrumors member

    Joined:
    May 29, 2008
    #13
    Thanks Randor

    Yes I know to use s-video, and I'v started importing. This is how I'm doing it and thought I had it down but I don't want to overlook anything I could regret later.

    1. I create a folder on the desktop named after the reel (or reels if the tape is short), as my scratch location. Then import and name all clips, in the sequence in the browser window, after removing unwanted media.

    2. I then move it to a G-Tech Raid and proceed to the next reels. Thinking I can acquire the footage when needed. But??

    What I'm beginning to realize, it would be better to name all clips after the actual material contained on the clip ie. heavy seas. light seas, fish jumping. crew, angler, etc. So I would have the actual reels and in addition have access to any clip to insert in a unique project. In other words I would have one huge library with the ability to acquire any scene I needed.

    My questions are:
    What would be the best software to catalogue all this with and to save it with FCP?
    Should I do any rendering after import to save time latter?

    This is going to take a lot of time so I want to do it once and get it over with, I might want to save all the media to tape latter, if I eliminate all the noise you mentioned.

    Thanks Marlin
     
  14. Randor macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2008
    Location:
    Vancouver, Canada
    #14
    Logging Tapes

    I think that if you at least have Microsoft Excel, or any spreadsheet for that matter, you can use it to start logging your tapes. That way if later you decide to start using actual logging software, you should be able to transfer all your data over to the new software without having to re-enter it all.

    I would also suggest naming the reels/files numerically with a very brief description, i.e. "027-Swordfish", and keep the detailed descriptions in the spreadsheet. My software generates a new number for each reel as needed, and that is all I write on the tape itself. The rest of the information is saved in the database.

    Your ADVC-110 will be adding SMPTE timecode to your clips as you import them, so you should be tracking that information with your clips as well. FCP will save the starting and ending timecode automagically for you while you are capturing.

    Which version of FCP are you using? I am not at my mac at the moment, but I will check to see what formats FCP will export a batch capture file into. I would assume that it will export to .CSV (comma-separated variable). If so you can continue capturing everything into FCP and then export it all to a spreadsheet or database at once. I can help you with that.

    The best thing you are doing is planning all of this ahead of time. There are many people who simply start madly capturing everything and then realize they have no way of finding anything later.

    Best of luck.

    Randy
     
  15. Flynnstone macrumors 65816

    Flynnstone

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2003
    Location:
    Cold beer land
    #15
    Here is what I do:
    Use FootTrack.
    name on physical tape = tape in FootTrack catalog.
    Import using FootTrack. I've also used iMovie '08 then import into FT.
    I import to an external hard drive. I also compress a preview so I can view clips when the hard drive isn't connected.
    I go through the clips and tag them.
    For Hi 8 tapes, I import via my Sony camcorder to firewire an into the computer. Since there is no timecode info, it imports one big clip, I go through and split the clips. You can set the actual recording date too.
    If I had FCP I could export via BCL or XML into FCP. It can export csv files as well.

    This just my 2 cents. It works well and keeps me organized.
     

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