Student Suspended for Calling Teacher Fat Douchebag on Facebook

[Demosthenes X]

Um, I don't think it's the same thing at all. At a water cooler, you can see your audience. You are saying things that are for that audience alone. And when you are done, there is no record of what you said.

With Facebook, you are publishing content. It is written down. It is recorded, potentially permanently. Because you can't see the audience, you don't know who they are. Facebook is much more like printing up a what a posters and plastering them up. With your name on them. Even if you put them only where your "friends" hang out, other people can see them if they wander over. Your friends can move the posters around to other locations. Your friends can make copies of the posters and post them where they want.

There is a huge difference between writing something on Facebook and telling the crowd around the cooler.

You are aware that Facebook has privacy controls, right? Your comparison of putting up posters is completely unfounded, unless the kid is stupid enough to have his profile entirely public.

Even if that is the case, though, Facebook is no different from the water cooler. If you say something to friends around the water cooler, one of them could repeat it to the boss, and you'd be facing the same kind of consequences. Or someone could overhear you. Or someone could have planted a recorder and it would be permanent.

The fact is, just because it's written down doesn't mean it carries any more or less weight. If I make a threatening phone call or send a threatening letter, they're both harassment. The medium is mostly irrelevant... it's the content that matters.

In this case, it was a comment made off school grounds, outside school hours, about a teacher. If it was an ongoing thing, I could see grounds for libel and suspension... but a one-off incident? Hardly anything to get worked up over...

 

[snberk103]

You are aware that Facebook has privacy controls, right? Your comparison of putting up posters is completely unfounded, unless the kid is stupid enough to have his profile entirely public.

Yep. Also know that if the privacy controls in this case were strict, the kid wouldn't be in this situation. Also know that Facebook constantly adds features that have privacy controls turned off by default.

Even if that is the case, though, Facebook is no different from the water cooler. If you say something to friends around the water cooler, one of them could repeat it to the boss, and you'd be facing the same kind of consequences.

Difference is "published" (Facebook) and not published. Also, the matter of permanence. Spoken words are transient. They are spoken, and then they are gone. People's memories are fickle. Written words are given more weight. Whether as evidence, or as an indicator of seriousness. A written political promise is much more difficult to weasel out of than a spoken one, even if recorded....

Or someone could overhear you. Or someone could have planted a recorder and it would be permanent.

Lets be serious here....

The fact is, just because it's written down doesn't mean it carries any more or less weight.

I think it does. Written promises carry more weight than spoken. Banks don't record you saying you agree to a mortgage. If you have two friends who both owe you money, and one verbally promises to repay it and the other gives you a written IOU, who are most likely to get stiffed by?

Same thing for insults. If someone writes an insult, it is treated more seriously than a spoken one. If you call someone a bad name (verbally) you parents likely made you go and say "sorry" (I'm referring to when we were children, not presently) but ... if you wrote something bad about someone, you had to write the apology out. It was more serious.

If I make a threatening phone call or send a threatening letter, they're both harassment. The medium is mostly irrelevant... it's the content that matters.

I don't agree. Usually there has to be a pattern of repeating phone calls before it's considered harassment, but it only takes one letter to get action.

In this case, it was a comment made off school grounds, outside school hours, about a teacher. If it was an ongoing thing, I could see grounds for libel and suspension... but a one-off incident? Hardly anything to get worked up over...

It was published. It was just like putting it into a small circulation newspaper where, though regular readership may have been small, it was possible for anyone to see it.

The kid was acted stupidly. He got caught, and he's paying the price for being not thinking this out. It's not the end of the world, and maybe he'll learn something from it.

His "crime" was not thinking this, or speaking it, it was publishing it.

 

[Ttownbeast]

The student has a right to their opinion written or verbal. And this topic is in the wrong section this should be moved to PRSI

 

[Disposition]

You are aware that Facebook has privacy controls, right? Your comparison of putting up posters is completely unfounded, unless the kid is stupid enough to have his profile entirely public.

Even if that is the case, though, Facebook is no different from the water cooler. If you say something to friends around the water cooler, one of them could repeat it to the boss, and you'd be facing the same kind of consequences. Or someone could overhear you. Or someone could have planted a recorder and it would be permanent.

The fact is, just because it's written down doesn't mean it carries any more or less weight. If I make a threatening phone call or send a threatening letter, they're both harassment. The medium is mostly irrelevant... it's the content that matters.

In this case, it was a comment made off school grounds, outside school hours, about a teacher. If it was an ongoing thing, I could see grounds for libel and suspension... but a one-off incident? Hardly anything to get worked up over...

F'n A. Very well put and exactly what I was thinking. Now I'm not fully agreeing with the kids actions, but it's pretty childish for the school/teacher to react in this manner, all for just some kid being some kid. Seriously, back when you were a kid and talked bad about your teacher, should you have been suspended or expelled? HE'S A KID!

 

[TuffLuffJimmy]

The teacher handled this very unprofessionally. She should have simply made a fake facebook (myspace?) profile and harassed him.

 

[Abstract]

It doesn't matter if FaceBook comments are private or public/published. This kid shouldn't be suspended because he didn't break any rules that are within the jurisdiction of the school, or its teachers.

Perhaps this person needs to learn his manners, or become more mature. Whatever. Neither are punishable by a school unless the actions/words happened on school grounds and/or during school hours. The parents and the police have jurisdiction outside of school, and since the comments weren't unlawful, then the only people who should be dealing with this child's behaviour are his parents. That's it.

 

[chrono1081]

This is ridiculous. The school is waaaay in the wrong.

I'd love to meet one person who as a teenager did not say something about a teacher they didn't like.

Not to mention the school has zero business on what a student does outside of class and off of school property.

 

[Mousse]

The teacher handled this very unprofessionally. She should have simply made a fake facebook (myspace?) profile and harassed him.

That's too much work, IMO. I'd just fail the brat and make him repeat the class. Then I'd fail him, again. (Out of spite, of course)

 

[localoid]

Could someone please post a pic of Mr. Cimino so I can judge whether or not he looks like a fat-ass/douche-bag before I state my humble opinion on this matter? Thanks in advance...

 

[rdowns]

Could someone please post a pic of Mr. Cimino so I can judge whether or not he looks like a fat-ass/douche-bag before I state my humble opinion on this matter? Thanks in advance...

http://www.sanjuan.edu/news.cfm?story=1266&school=75

 

[JackHobbs]

It doesn't matter if FaceBook comments are private or public/published. This kid shouldn't be suspended because he didn't break any rules that are within the jurisdiction of the school, or its teachers.

Perhaps this person needs to learn his manners, or become more mature. Whatever. Neither are punishable by a school unless the actions/words happened on school grounds and/or during school hours. The parents and the police have jurisdiction outside of school, and since the comments weren't unlawful, then the only people who should be dealing with this child's behaviour are his parents. That's it.

So my understanding of this comment is, that if something happens outside of school then it should not affect what happens in school. As a teacher I like this idea. The next time that I see a student outside of school that I don't like or one that doesn't do my work, on those grounds it's ok for me to tell them that I think they are a lazy and a complete waste of space. Can you see me getting away with that? Or I can write on my facebook wall that a student I teach is a runt that needs to be culled, can I get away with that?

No? Then it's reciprocal. If I cannot abuse students on facebook then they cannot abuse me. If a student wants to stand moaning about me to his mates in a private area, fair enough. If he or she does it in a public way then it will affect my teaching in class. I will be facing a bunch of students, a lot of whom will have read the page, and it will make my work more difficult. The media is immaterial, it is whether or not it is public. It was found out and therefore that was public enough. The student needs to learn about privacy controls. He also needs to think about his actions and words before he does or says something. If he doesn't like the consequences, don't do it.

In the same way that retail workers do not have to suffer abuse from shoppers, teachers do not have to suffer abuse from students.

 

[173080]

I think a distinction needs to be made between private and public schools.

In a public school they are overstepping their authority if it didn't happen within school hours and on school property.

In a private school they do have the authority to not keep you around if they don't think you're the kind of student they'd want, in school and outside school.

 

[cmabc]

The kid needs to learn that there are consequences to your actions. I agree with the School for banning his hinny.

Being man enough to accept the consequences of ones actions is a very important life lesson. That is the reason why I don't poke fun at someone who's biceps is as big as his head.

It seems to me that the whole concept of "freedom of speech" is to make certain consequences illegal. That's what the courts are for. I doubt the kid intended for his teacher to see his post, and I think he should apologize. The school is overreacting.

 

[karsten]

Unless this was said on school property what punishment can they legally give. This was on a private computer at home. At what point do the schools rules not apply anymore.

exactly. if you're off school property and not at a school function the school has no authority. the student should ask where in his student handbook it says he can't slander the school verbally. i'd bet nowhere. someone mentioned work, that's obviously different because you're paid to be on the side of the company, and to make it money. if you disparage them they have every right to fire you as it is at-will employment.

 

[shinji]

So my understanding of this comment is, that if something happens outside of school then it should not affect what happens in school. As a teacher I like this idea. The next time that I see a student outside of school that I don't like or one that doesn't do my work, on those grounds it's ok for me to tell them that I think they are a lazy and a complete waste of space. Can you see me getting away with that? Or I can write on my facebook wall that a student I teach is a runt that needs to be culled, can I get away with that?

No? Then it's reciprocal. If I cannot abuse students on facebook then they cannot abuse me. If a student wants to stand moaning about me to his mates in a private area, fair enough. If he or she does it in a public way then it will affect my teaching in class. I will be facing a bunch of students, a lot of whom will have read the page, and it will make my work more difficult. The media is immaterial, it is whether or not it is public. It was found out and therefore that was public enough. The student needs to learn about privacy controls. He also needs to think about his actions and words before he does or says something. If he doesn't like the consequences, don't do it.

In the same way that retail workers do not have to suffer abuse from shoppers, teachers do not have to suffer abuse from students.

That isn't what the law says. Unless his comment creates a material and substantial disruption of the school environment, he cannot legally be suspended in the United States.

Neither teachers nor school principals were elected by voters to make laws. If this teacher has a problem with that, I suggest he get elected to Congress and author a bill making it a crime to suggest that a public school teacher is a bag intended for vaginal irrigation.

 

[Sydde]

Wait, hold on, did the original article say "suspended" him? "suspended"? What is that, like three days? Sheesh, BFD. So he got his feelings hurt, so he had to do a little extra work to catch up, a little perspective here, people. Those things rising out of the back lawn are ot mountains.

 

[neko girl]

Wait, hold on, did the original article say "suspended" him? "suspended"? What is that, like three days? Sheesh, BFD. So he got his feelings hurt, so he had to do a little extra work to catch up, a little perspective here, people. Those things rising out of the back lawn are ot mountains.

You're kidding, right? Facebook is the equivalent of private property, not school property - unless they are encouraging and condoning Facebook use in the school.

Rights are rights. That kid shouldn't be suspended period. He's exercising his right to free speech, and not on school property.

It's interesting how people can just rationalize erosion of personal rights.

Read this article:
http://www.zdnet.com/blog/btl/settlement-boss-bashing-on-facebook-cant-get-you-fired/44595

 

[0388631]

Ridiculous.

http://www.sanjuan.edu/news.cfm?story=1266&school=75

He's a whale.

Wait, hold on, did the original article say "suspended" him? "suspended"? What is that, like three days? Sheesh, BFD. So he got his feelings hurt, so he had to do a little extra work to catch up, a little perspective here, people. Those things rising out of the back lawn are ot mountains.

It goes on the student's record.

You're kidding, right? Facebook is the equivalent of private property, not school property - unless they are encouraging and condoning Facebook use in the school.

Rights are rights. That kid shouldn't be suspended period. He's exercising his right to free speech, and not on school property.

It's interesting how people can just rationalize erosion of personal rights.

Read this article:
http://www.zdnet.com/blog/btl/settlement-boss-bashing-on-facebook-cant-get-you-fired/44595

I recall two similar incidents in 2005, where private school officials in California and I believe Florida forbade students to use the social networking site MySpace for face immediate expulsion.

 

[mscriv]

I think a distinction needs to be made between private and public schools.

In a public school they are overstepping their authority if it didn't happen within school hours and on school property.

In a private school they do have the authority to not keep you around if they don't think you're the kind of student they'd want, in school and outside school.

Good point. I went to a private school when I was a teenager and to be admitted you had to sign a conduct policy that goverend both your behavior in and out of school. Yep, that's right you could get in trouble at school for mischief you did during the weekend or during the summer when school was out.

Is the school in this story a public or private school?

If it's private then I'd support the school in taking disciplinary action. If it's public then I would say the school can not overstep their bounds and should contact the student's parents so that they may take appropriate action. Schools and parents should be working together in my opinion, respecting each other's boundaries, but teaming up to teach important life lessons as needed.

 

[Ice Dragon]

If you have a comment to make about your boss, professor, or teacher on Facebook, don't do it on a legit account. How about that for starters?

Now as for violating his rights, no... the kid was dumb and he should be suspended though if you're going to say something, do it anonymously.

 

[Xylene]

How is this any different than if the kid stood on a street corner calling the guy a douche as an announcement? What if he ran into the teacher out in public somewhere and called him a douche? Facebook is no different. The school has nothing to do with this.

 

[glossywhite]

I'm glad they did. It's still slander (not on about the legality btw) and it is still written evidence of the kid's opinion, albeit a different medium to him, say, writing the teacher a note to the same effect, or saying it to his face.

It shows the extreme cowardess of modern society - folks will slag you off left, right & centre in the safety of the 'net, but fail to have the backbone to talk face to face, and let out their feelings. Taking the other side, the teacher could have concluded that it is simply teen angst and stress, and cast a blind eye... but why should they? That teacher is still someone's husband/wife/Dad/son, and why should their family have to put up with having their beloved one slated in public?

Teach the kid to face up to people, and say it to their face, or S_T_F_U.

People are held accountable less and less in this mamby-pamby, pampered society. Tough sh_t kid, learn to control your tongue, and be liable for your actions. Honestly!

 

[SuperCachetes]

How is this any different than if the kid stood on a street corner calling the guy a douche as an announcement? What if he ran into the teacher out in public somewhere and called him a douche? Facebook is no different.

Well, Facebook is quite different in two regards: permanence and audience.

First, what you say on the internet is out there for good and you can't take it back. Both your examples are transient at best.

Second, while what you say is out there, it can go viral quickly. If the student left his comment up when this story broke, how many hits did he accumulate? How many FB users are there?

I don't completely disagree with what the kid said (truly, the teacher isn't skinny), but the rules of the game are changing. Writing that "my teacher blows" in a journal (or even on the bathroom wall for that matter) is one thing. The new weapons of mass communication are different, though. With the speed and ease of broadcasting ideas, we have to assume things could become disruptive on some level even before they actually become that way.

 

[glossywhite]

Well, Facebook is quite different in two regards: permanence and audience.

First, what you say on the internet is out there for good and you can't take it back. Both your examples are transient at best.

Second, while what you say is out there, it can go viral quickly. If the student left his comment up when this story broke, how many hits did he accumulate? How many FB users are there?

I don't completely disagree with what the kid said (truly, the teacher isn't skinny), but the rules of the game are changing. Writing that "my teacher blows" in a journal (or even on the bathroom wall for that matter) is one thing. The new weapons of mass communication are different, though. With the speed and ease of broadcasting ideas, we have to assume things could become disruptive on some level even before they actually become that way.

Agreed. Tough luck kiddy, grow up, and take accountability for your fleeting rages.

 

[torbjoern]

I guess this kid has learnt a lesson now about what happens when writing unacceptable things about your teacher on Facebook. It's a valuable lesson, since adults get fired for less.