Stuttery scrolling in MacOS Sierra versus smooth iOS10

Discussion in 'macOS Sierra (10.12)' started by MaciMac100, Sep 24, 2016.

  1. MaciMac100 macrumors 6502

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    Oct 26, 2014
    #1
    Anyone else noticed stuttery scrolling using MacOS Sierra? I'm using Magic Trackpad and when scrolling in Finder or Safari it's visible that smooth 60fps isn't present, there is microstutter and small pauses.

    I know everyone don't notice small changes in framerate but hated this in iOS8 and 9, until iOS 10 came and fixed scrolling.


    From http://www.anandtech.com/show/10611/the-ios-10-review/6

    "Scrolling Performance

    Something iOS has typically been known for is smooth scrolling performance. Apple's own standard is that views should animate at 60fps, which makes sense given the fact that iOS devices all use 60hz displays. There was a time where you really could expect near-constant 60fps animations throughout the system, barring really poorly designed applications. However, in recent years with increasing resolutions, greater pressure on the hardware, and more advanced visual effects, the smoothness of iOS has definitely degraded. Much of this has to do with the greater complexity of modern UIs, particularly ones that make heavy use of translucent views with blur.

    [​IMG]

    In iOS 10 Apple has recognized that problems in their own APIs have played a part in dropping scrolling performance on iOS. This again goes back to the fact that views have become more complex on iOS in recent years. In the past, Apple's TableView and CollectionView APIs have prepared cells for rendering right before they are about to be displayed on the screen, and are removed right when they exit the screen. This doesn't pose a problem for something basic like a table cell with a couple of labels, but with complicated cells that use translucency, load high res images, and even have animated subviews, this method of rendering simply doesn't cut it. You can even have cases with CollectionViews like the iOS Photos app where you have to bring on many cells at the same time, all of which need to be set up individually. It's important to remember that there's only a ~16ms interval between frames, and the work to set up the UI for the next frame has to be completed in an even smaller period of time than that to manage a constant frame rate of 60fps.

    To improving scroll performance Apple has changed the cell lifecycle in CollectionView and TableView APIs. As I mentioned before, the previous API essentially did everything relating to cell creation right before it was to be displayed on the screen, and cell removal right after it exited the screen. This caused two key issues. The first is that in the case of a CollectionView with many columns, every cell is rendered at once at that moment. This is a big cause of frame drops, as the hardware simply cannot render all the cells in time for the next frame. The second issue was the situation where a cell would exit one side of the screen and quickly be brought back on. This situation occurs frequently when a user accidentally scrolls past the item they were looking for in a list. In this case, the cell would have to be recreated from scratch despite having been on the screen only a moment before.

    [​IMG]

    The iOS 10 APIs now spread out the work done during the lifecycle of a cell. Cells are now setup well before they need to be rendered, and the display process is spread out so a row of many cells doesn't need to be rendered at the exact same time right before they need to be shown on the screen. Cells are also kept for longer after they exit the screen, which means if the user quickly scrolls back the cell display method can simply be called again rather than having to get a new cell from the reuse queue, set it up, and draw it.

    It honestly surprises me that Apple didn't make these changes sooner, because the impact on performance is dramatic. The iPhone 5s on iOS 10 has better scrolling performance than it ever has in the previous three years. This sort of thing is difficult to profile well even with XCode and Instruments, but I think it'll be immediately obvious to users that performance is improved, especially for users of older iOS devices that haven't had such a good time after being updated to iOS 8 and iOS 9."


    Do you think we'll get similar update to MacOS to get smooth scrolling? Scrolling performance isn't on par currently compared to iOS 10.
     
  2. stooovie macrumors 6502a

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    Nov 21, 2010
    #2
    Sierra actually fixed my issue with choppy displaying of Applications folder invoked from Dock. It was always like 5-10 fps in El Capitan and now it's almost completely smooth.
     
  3. MaciMac100 thread starter macrumors 6502

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    Oct 26, 2014
    #3
    I have no problems with animations here, they are quite 60fps, but scrolling performance especially in Safari bothers me.
     
  4. Feenician Suspended

    Feenician

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    Jun 13, 2016
    #4
    Can you post a video of the scrolling in Safari?
     
  5. MaciMac100 thread starter macrumors 6502

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    Oct 26, 2014
    #5
    Sorry but I don't have equipment to capture it as high frames per second video where it could possible seen. I tried, but it's also hard to measure using Xcode's Quartz Debug too, because I think FrameMeter app doesn't register properly microstutter or pauses. However it's now clearly visible with eyes that my iPad Air 1 has smoother scrolling than my iMac 2013 with GeForce GPU. Note that iPad has larger resolution and weaker CPU, GPU and less RAM but Apple thankfully fixed scrolling with software in iOS 10.
     
  6. CemY, Sep 25, 2016
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2016

    CemY macrumors newbie

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    Nov 22, 2012
    #6
    Same problem here. Since macOS Sierra Safari is stuttering. Had no problems with El Capitan on my iMac 5k M295X. Hope they will fix it with 10.12.1.
    It reminds me a little bit on Mountain Lion on the 15" MacBook Pro with Retina display. It was really ugly.
     
  7. CupertinoSlave macrumors regular

    CupertinoSlave

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    Tampa, FL
    #7
    Scrolling is still smooth on my rMBP on Sierra, but my iMac 5K has taken a hit in scrolling performance. Not smooth anymore.
     
  8. thekayman macrumors 6502

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    Oct 23, 2014
    #8
    MS Office 2011 is where I see choppy scrolling. It is fine in all stock apps.
     
  9. mszilard macrumors member

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    Oct 16, 2012
    #9
    I did notice the stuttering scroll with sierra and safari 10, opened a bug report. I tried cleaning cookies, resetting safari, using guest account, not using my external drive (some say external hdd may cause interference with the mouse), nothing works. Now i'm using el cap, where scrolling is mooth. It's quite an unnerving bug, but till now i saw only a few posts about it.
     
  10. Tarek macrumors 6502

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  11. CemY, Sep 26, 2016
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2016

    CemY macrumors newbie

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    #11
    Are You using Safari 10 on El Capitan, too? If so, is it smooth like Safari 9? I'm asking, because i'm thinking about to go back to El Cap.
     
  12. mszilard macrumors member

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    Oct 16, 2012
    #12
    I'm using safari 9 on el cap, too afraid to update to safari 10.
    The truth is, it would be an excellent test to update to safari 10 on el cap, to see if the problem is with sierra or safari 10. But I'm seeing red every time the scrolling stutters, so right now i won't updete to Safari 10. I do miss picture in picture :(

    The choppy scroll is still present with 10.12.1 beta
     
  13. zhenya macrumors 603

    zhenya

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    Jan 6, 2005
    #13
    Scrolling and all animations seem much smoother for me on my 2015 rMB.
     
  14. CupertinoSlave macrumors regular

    CupertinoSlave

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    #14
    It seems to only affect iMacs. Both of my MacBooks are smoother
     
  15. MaciMac100 thread starter macrumors 6502

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    Oct 26, 2014
    #15
    I now clean installed Sierra from USB stick to iMac, didn't restore anything. No help. Safari scrolling stutter remains.​
     
  16. CupertinoSlave macrumors regular

    CupertinoSlave

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    #16
    I just reinstalled El Capitan, wow the difference is night and day. Scrolling is a lot better on El Capitan.
     
  17. CemY, Sep 27, 2016
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2016

    CemY macrumors newbie

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  18. mszilard macrumors member

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    Oct 16, 2012
    #18
    Who's the brave one to try the 10.12.1 beta 2? :)
     
  19. Tarek macrumors 6502

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    #19
    @mszilard I am on beta 1 and downloading beta 2 as we speak. Beta 1 has been completely stable for me and doesn't seem to have any of those bugs in the official version mentioned by several people here.
     
  20. typicaluser macrumors regular

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    Sep 15, 2013
    #20
    Happy to know Apple did I some truly fundamental and useful work to iOS. Thanks for sharing.
     
  21. MaciMac100 thread starter macrumors 6502

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  22. mszilard macrumors member

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    Oct 16, 2012
    #22
    or the third beta?
     
  23. CupertinoSlave macrumors regular

    CupertinoSlave

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    #23
    Installed 10.12.1 beta 3 on my other imac. Seems a lot smoother. Could just be a placebo though
     
  24. CemY macrumors newbie

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    Nov 22, 2012
    #24
    Hi, what's Your first impression? Is it smoother?
     
  25. CupertinoSlave macrumors regular

    CupertinoSlave

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    #25
    I dont have anything to compare it too but it seems pretty a bit better in this beta
     

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