Other Subsidy prices or just $0 down? Apple and carriers would do BETTER!

[macintosh00]

I'm thinking of what Tim Cook said about wanting everyone to get into the iPhone. But I don't think he gets it. Maybe I'm wrong though.
Right now, with how stupid high the prices are, not everyone can just walk in and get an iPhone. Some people have bad credit through no fault of their own (maybe they got sick years ago and couldn't pay off medical bills) or maybe they don't have established credit. This typically requires a large deposit by the carrier and people don't want to or cannot pay that deposit fee. Don't you all think that Apple and the carriers would do better financially if they put the prices back to either $99, $199, etc OR if they all did $0 down plus tax and you just pay off a phone monthly with your bill? At least give people more flexible options to get an iPhone. If they want to sell more, have a larger customer base and grow even larger than a trillion, wouldn't that make sense? I see people with iPhones but more and more I see a lot of midrange phones creeping up. I've heard of people wanting to get in at T-Mobile or AT&T but they're required to pay more than $1k UP FRONT to get started. That's just crazy to me. I got started with the 4S in an Apple store and was able to get it for $99 at the time. It was the new, I paid $99 plus tax for a 16gb. My bill was consistently the same price. I miss those days.

 

[Knowimagination]

If people had to pay 1k it’s because they had bad credit not because phones are too expensive. It isn’t apples problem if people have a hard time establishing service. Also there are plenty of options for people to get into an iPhone at a reasonable price as long as they don’t need the latest greatest phone.

I’m perfectly happy with the iUP or carrier plans that allow me to upgrade yearly and if I wasn’t then I would just buy one and keep it as long as possible.

 

[ectospheno]

More people would purchase German luxury cars if they were cheaper too. Pretty sure none of them are considering that move. Pretty sure they'll be just fine anyway.

 

[1144557]

It doesn't change the overall price. Carrier plans were more expensive during subsidies; you were paying for part of the subsidy in the plan. There are no free lunches. Sometimes you actually paid more than they subsidy you got up front.

Maybe someone with bad credit, so bad the carrier wont finance the phone as they dont run your credit, doesnt need to buy a $1,000 phone would be the better statement. They should stick with a $300 budget phone or used iphone and rebuild their credit first.

 

[Mlrollin91]

It doesn't change the overall price. Carrier plans were more expensive during subsidies; you were paying for part of the subsidy in the plan. There are no free lunches. Sometimes you actually paid more than they subsidy you got up front.

Maybe someone with bad credit, so bad the carrier wont finance the phone as they dont run your credit, doesnt need to buy a $1,000 phone would be the better statement. They should stick with a $300 budget phone or used iphone and rebuild their credit first.

My AT&T bill is still the same cost when subsides existed. It never decreased because I bought my phone outright. It was merely a stunt. If anything, I am paying more than I was for the same exact thing, but without a subsidy.

 

[macintosh00]

My AT&T bill is still the same cost when subsides existed. It never decreased because I bought my phone outright. It was merely a stunt. If anything, I am paying more than I was for the same exact thing, but without a subsidy.

That's exactly what I'm saying.

 

[Joe h]

Paid $84 for unlimited data, 400 minutes, and a couple hundred texts, plus paid $200 for a subsidized iPhone 5. Today I pay $97 for unlimited 22gigs of data, talk and text and have to pay $1710 for a xs max 512gb. Any phone company that wants to subsidize phones again, I’ll immediately switch.

 

[lsutigerfan1976]

My AT&T bill is still the same cost when subsides existed. It never decreased because I bought my phone outright. It was merely a stunt. If anything, I am paying more than I was for the same exact thing, but without a subsidy.

Same here. Bill is exactly the same. No subsidies now. And on top of that I have to pay full price for a new phone. So my bill has increased if you include the phone financing price. But you can’t argue with ppl on here. They will tell you that you are better off now than before.

 

[campingsk8er]

ORif they all did $0 down plus tax and you just pay off a phone monthly with your bill?

That is exactly what the iPhone upgrade program is. $0 down plus the taxes. And the monthly I’ll is the device cost divided by 24 months. No company EVER is gonna let someone with no credit history take out an interest free loan against a device, whether it’s a phone, car, computer, whatever. The problem you are stating has already been answered. It’s the iPhone upgrade problem, or NEXT, or JUMP, or whatever.

 

[mhdena]

I'm thinking of what Tim Cook said about wanting everyone to get into the iPhone. But I don't think he gets it. Maybe I'm wrong though.
Right now, with how stupid high the prices are, not everyone can just walk in and get an iPhone. Some people have bad credit through no fault of their own (maybe they got sick years ago and couldn't pay off medical bills) or maybe they don't have established credit. This typically requires a large deposit by the carrier and people don't want to or cannot pay that deposit fee. Don't you all think that Apple and the carriers would do better financially if they put the prices back to either $99, $199, etc OR if they all did $0 down plus tax and you just pay off a phone monthly with your bill? At least give people more flexible options to get an iPhone. If they want to sell more, have a larger customer base and grow even larger than a trillion, wouldn't that make sense? I see people with iPhones but more and more I see a lot of midrange phones creeping up. I've heard of people wanting to get in at T-Mobile or AT&T but they're required to pay more than $1k UP FRONT to get started. That's just crazy to me. I got started with the 4S in an Apple store and was able to get it for $99 at the time. It was the new, I paid $99 plus tax for a 16gb. My bill was consistently the same price. I miss those days.

People with bad credit is do to their lack of planning/saving for a rainy day.

Its not Apples fault they planned poorly or can't afford an iphone.

They have better accountants to crunch the numbers than you do.

Buying a 16gb iphone was barely getting one in the first place, when there were subsidies. Poor planning again.

Nobody is entitled to an iphone

 

[Steve686]

So your cellular bills have...stayed the same?

When cable bills, movie ticket prices, rents and housing, food, gas, and hell, even hookers, have all raised their prices over the last several years.

Geez. I’d be happy as we are getting faster services established and more coverage being added.

 

[aristobrat]

Paid $84 for unlimited data, 400 minutes, and a couple hundred texts, plus paid $200 for a subsidized iPhone 5. Today I pay $97 for unlimited 22gigs of data, talk and text and have to pay $1710 for a xs max 512gb. Any phone company that wants to subsidize phones again, I’ll immediately switch.

IIRC, $199 up front was for a $649 iPhone.

The $749 iPhone was $299, and the $849 iPhone was $399 up front, no?

So what would the up front payment be for a $1449 512GB iPhone XS Max? $999? That’s not going to work for 99% of folks, IMO.

 

[Q-Dog]

Apple is the most valuable company in the world. Obviously their current pricing strategy works pretty well. If one cannot afford the most expensive Apple device, they still sell some of their older devices for less money.

 

[ftaok]

For most folks, the end of the subsidy type plans works out to be a wash. For others, they get less for the same money. The key traits for those who did better under the subsidy plans are the old, grandfathered unlimited plans and sometimes single line accounts. This represents a small number of customers as there are very few folks that are still on the old unlimited plans, mainly because AT&T and Verizon are actively screwing you to get off of those plans.

For most other folks, the current non-subsidy plans work out to be cost-neutral if you upgrade every two years. If you hold onto your phone for longer periods, then you actually make out in the deal.

Now the carriers and phone makers aren't dumb. They've actually used this to start driving up the price of the phones. Flagship iPhones used to start at $650, now they start at $1000. The break even is around 3 years now. This is the cynic in me talking.

The optimist in me says that phones have gotten more advanced and useful precisely because the subsidy plans went away. This enabled folks to decouple their plans from their phones, so the actual price is now transparent. Phones are useful for longer periods, so folks are OK spending more $$$ for the phone. In turn, the OEMs have been packing in more innovation and features to warrant the higher prices.

Anyway, to address the OP, I suspect that most people, when the do the math, are paying the same as they did under the subsidy plans.

Just for giggles, I looked at my wireless bills before and after the subsidy plans.

Under the old subsidy plan, I was paying $154 (after taxes/fees) for two lines on AT&T. It was a shared minutes plan with two iPhone5 with 3GB each and an unlimited text for all phones.

AT&T offered to switch me to the Mobile Share (10GB, unlimited talk/text) at a price of $114 (after taxes/fees). They basically let me out of my subsidy price a few months early. So I was getting more for less. Later on, I got in on that Christmas deal and got my data doubled to 20GB for no price increase.

At $40 less per month, over 24 months, I saved $960 or $480 per line. Which is just a little better than the typical $450 subsidy.

Note that I never had an unlimited plan. I came in right when they were phasing out the unlimited plans.

 

[macintosh00]

That is exactly what the iPhone upgrade program is. $0 down plus the taxes. And the monthly I’ll is the device cost divided by 24 months. No company EVER is gonna let someone with no credit history take out an interest free loan against a device, whether it’s a phone, car, computer, whatever. The problem you are stating has already been answered. It’s the iPhone upgrade problem, or NEXT, or JUMP, or whatever.

Again, this doesn't apply to people who dont have perfect credit. People who don't have great credit aren't eligible for the 0 down

 

[campingsk8er]

Again, this doesn't apply to people who dont have perfect credit. People who don't have great credit aren't eligible for the 0 down

Unfortunately, thats their problem. No company is gonna give somebody a product with no reliable credit history. And you don't need a perfect score. You only need a reliable track of payments/ prove that you make enough money. The newest iPhones/ androids, cars, computers are luxuries, not necessities.

 

[1144557]

For most folks, the end of the subsidy type plans works out to be a wash. For others, they get less for the same money. The key traits for those who did better under the subsidy plans are the old, grandfathered unlimited plans and sometimes single line accounts. This represents a small number of customers as there are very few folks that are still on the old unlimited plans, mainly because AT&T and Verizon are actively screwing you to get off of those plans.

For most other folks, the current non-subsidy plans work out to be cost-neutral if you upgrade every two years. If you hold onto your phone for longer periods, then you actually make out in the deal.

Now the carriers and phone makers aren't dumb. They've actually used this to start driving up the price of the phones. Flagship iPhones used to start at $650, now they start at $1000. The break even is around 3 years now. This is the cynic in me talking.

The optimist in me says that phones have gotten more advanced and useful precisely because the subsidy plans went away. This enabled folks to decouple their plans from their phones, so the actual price is now transparent. Phones are useful for longer periods, so folks are OK spending more $$$ for the phone. In turn, the OEMs have been packing in more innovation and features to warrant the higher prices.

Anyway, to address the OP, I suspect that most people, when the do the math, are paying the same as they did under the subsidy plans.

Just for giggles, I looked at my wireless bills before and after the subsidy plans.

Under the old subsidy plan, I was paying $154 (after taxes/fees) for two lines on AT&T. It was a shared minutes plan with two iPhone5 with 3GB each and an unlimited text for all phones.

AT&T offered to switch me to the Mobile Share (10GB, unlimited talk/text) at a price of $114 (after taxes/fees). They basically let me out of my subsidy price a few months early. So I was getting more for less. Later on, I got in on that Christmas deal and got my data doubled to 20GB for no price increase.

At $40 less per month, over 24 months, I saved $960 or $480 per line. Which is just a little better than the typical $450 subsidy.

Note that I never had an unlimited plan. I came in right when they were phasing out the unlimited plans.

Agreed. It is naive to think carriers were giving you any more with a subsidy (rather than building it into the price) than now out of the goodness of their hearts; absent some grandfathered legacy plan which is the vast minority of people and carriers forcing people off these. You were paying the full price of the phone just like now overall.

And people easily forget you were paying for 500/1000/2000 texts and then up the wazoo for data. Using 1 or 2gb of data back then made you a crazy heavy user; there were no cloud backups, Netflix, or other data hogs.

Unfortunately, thats their problem. No company is gonna give somebody a product with no reliable credit history. And you don't need a perfect score. You only need a reliable track of payments/ prove that you make enough money. The newest iPhones/ androids, cars, computers are luxuries, not necessities.

Agree, how do people think those type of people were getting cell service or subsidized phones in the old style? The carrier was absorbing the risk? Nope, same thing, put more down. Carriers too can (and did) require large deposits with service from people with poor credit. I guess people are quick to forget though.

 

[aristobrat]

Right now, with how stupid high the prices are, not everyone can just walk in and get an iPhone.

There's never been a time when anyone could just walk in and get an iPhone, IMO.

Here's an article from back in 2008 talking about how folks with bad credit can't get an iPhone 3G without having to pay extra for a deposit (sometimes $750 or $1000).

https://www.creditcards.com/credit-card-news/credit-checks-required-by-Apple-1275.php

 

[Lobwedgephil]

Not sure what OP wants here, Apple has an upgrade program, all carriers have monthly payment plans. If you can't get approved for those, you shouldn't be buying a phone.

 

[ftaok]

Not sure what OP wants here, Apple has an upgrade program, all carriers have monthly payment plans. If you can't get approved for those, you shouldn't be buying a phone.

I think the OP (and others) would rather go back to the old subsidy plans, with the caveat that their unlimited plans don't go up. Not an unreasonable request since their plan price never went down.

But a pragmatist will say that this will never happen. There are too few people that fall into this group for the carriers and vendors to care about.

Besides, Apple has just fired the first shot in regards to upgrade durations. In Apple's mind, it's no longer 2 years. It's closer to 3 or 3.5 years now. This justifies the higher prices.

Lower costs phones can be on the older 2 year cycle.

Folks upgrading every year are gonna have to pay up now as they can no longer take advantage of alternating their upgrades between 2 phones. The carriers wised up to that trick.

 

[Mlrollin91]

IIRC, $199 up front was for a $649 iPhone.

The $749 iPhone was $299, and the $849 iPhone was $399 up front, no?

So what would the up front payment be for a $1449 512GB iPhone XS Max? $999? That’s not going to work for 99% of folks, IMO.

I'm willing to bet that if the subsidy system still existed, iPhones would have never become this expensive. The only reason why they are so expensive now is because Apple knows they can charge that amount and we will still buy it. If it was a 2 year contract with a subsidy, I highly doubt the the XS Max would be more than $699.

It wasn't until subsidies fully went away before iPhone prices started to increase yearly.

 

[ftaok]

I'm willing to bet that if the subsidy system still existed, iPhones would have never become this expensive. The only reason why they are so expensive now is because Apple knows they can charge that amount and we will still buy it. If it was a 2 year contract with a subsidy, I highly doubt the the XS Max would be more than $699.

It wasn't until subsidies fully went away before iPhone prices started to increase yearly.

I agree with this. However, my thinking is that innovation would not have been as high. I don't think you would have seen the X style phone at all. We would have gotten smaller iterations of the 6 in order to keep the base flagship at $650.

I contend that switching the US market to a non-subsidy model increased the incentive to raise prices, but that increase in price allows the vendors to pack more goodness into the phones.

Someone with writing flair should do an essay on this topic.

 

[bruinsrme]

I want as little to do with any carrier as possible.

Like cable I will pay them for the service and pick my own equipment.

 

[cornerexit]

For most folks, the end of the subsidy type plans works out to be a wash. For others, they get less for the same money. The key traits for those who did better under the subsidy plans are the old, grandfathered unlimited plans and sometimes single line accounts. This represents a small number of customers as there are very few folks that are still on the old unlimited plans, mainly because AT&T and Verizon are actively screwing you to get off of those plans.

Right here dude. ATT grandfathered unlimited. And yes, last time I got a phone I was being talked into NEXT and whatever else they offered at the time and I said no. It’s funny......now I have to haggle with my wireless carrier every 2 years. The kWh company every 2 years, literally every utility or service you need a PhD, time, and negotiation skills. Murica!

 

[macintosh00]

Not sure what OP wants here, Apple has an upgrade program, all carriers have monthly payment plans. If you can't get approved for those, you shouldn't be buying a phone.

My point is that some people would like to try a nice phone like the iPhone. Maybe due to their credit they're forced to stick with low end devices. They go through those phones like water since they're cheap and often break. Why can't people go in, get into an iPhone, HAVE A BETTER EXPERIENCE with a higher quality phone? They win and ultimately the carriers and Apple win. They have customers and money. It's a win win.
[doublepost=1538594708][/doublepost]

There's never been a time when anyone could just walk in and get an iPhone, IMO.

Here's an article from back in 2008 talking about how folks with bad credit can't get an iPhone 3G without having to pay extra for a deposit (sometimes $750 or $1000).

https://www.creditcards.com/credit-card-news/credit-checks-required-by-Apple-1275.php

I didn't have the greatest of credit in 2010 when I purchased an iPhone 4 from Apple. I felt like back then the gentlemen who helped me was eager to not just make a sale, but get me into an iPhone as I was coming from a very low level Android phone that had a ton of problems. I wanted to see what all the hype was and I have to say that the 4 was a great experience. I eventually got a 4S on AT&T but due to insane pricing wars I was forced to go to a carrier I could afford. Back then I was in and out of the store in under 30 minutes with a new phone and a new plan. Now if I want to get an iPhone I would have to literally go in with cash or a credit/debit and pay a minimum of $1,099 plus tax and activation fee for the latest iPhone or slightly cheaper if I chose an older model like the 8 or 8 plus. My point is that people scream Apple is the best, iPhone is the best! The ecosystem! Yes I get that their points may be valid but the prices aren't justified. In my opinion, and take it for what it's worth, any person should be able to go in to a carrier, pay tax and maybe a small amount like $50 or something and sign up for a plan. That's it. If you all put aside everything else and just think how simple that process is: go in, small fee, tax, plan and you're on your way. That right there would make Apple a lot more, it would make the carriers a lot more and the everyday person could have the latest phone.
[doublepost=1538595083][/doublepost]

That is exactly what the iPhone upgrade program is. $0 down plus the taxes. And the monthly I’ll is the device cost divided by 24 months. No company EVER is gonna let someone with no credit history take out an interest free loan against a device, whether it’s a phone, car, computer, whatever. The problem you are stating has already been answered. It’s the iPhone upgrade problem, or NEXT, or JUMP, or whatever.

Not true. You cannot just go in with $0 down plus the taxes. They have to run your precious little credit first and if you don't qualify then see ya. Believe me I already tried. I'm not perfect, I made credit mistakes but I don't believe it should disqualify me from owning a phone.

And also think about this: there's the issue of defaulting on payments. I understand that. Pretty simple if you ask me. If you default, then the phone gets blacklisted. If you default on your mortgage the house gets taken. Default on the car payment and bye bye car. I know it works a little differently with a phone. A carrier can't physically take away a phone but at least there's an option to go after people who default.