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LightBulbFun

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Nov 17, 2013
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I am very pleased to be bringing you guys and girls this about this Macintosh shot :D

4400-ATM.png


after over a year at hacking away at it I have finally gotten OS X to boot on the Power Macintosh 4400! :D its not Tiger no, but its amazing to see any form of OS X boot on the 4400, and man what a complicated journey it was to get here

the long and the short of it is, the onboard ATA controller does not play ball with OS X at all and causes OS X to stall very early on in the boot, to get around this I had to nuke those drivers from OS X and figure out how to Boot OS X from another volume not attached to the ATA bus, in the end using the tools I had available to me, I settled on using xpostfacto with a CF card on the 4400s ATA bus as a helper volume, so I could actually boot the OS X kernel from OpenFirmware, then I had my Pismo in target disk mode also running 10.2.8 plugged in via a PCI Firewire card where I then had it setup to tell OS X to use the Pismo as the root device so then it would find the Pismo (as OS Xs Firewire drivers are good LOL) and then switch to booting from that basically and bingo it booted up (rather slowly) to a (very slugish) desktop woo! :D if I had a nice PCI SATA or ATA card that did play nice with the 4400s OpenFirmware then I could avoid having to use the Pismo in TDM, but I do not have such a card sadly (sadly not only is my firmtek flashed SATA card incompatible with 10.2.x as a whole. it also will not boot OS X from open firmware on a 4400 the, card works fine in the 4400 under Mac OS 7-9.1 however :) )

Ill say OS X 10.2.8 is very slow on the 4400, you can watch the windows being drawn in real time as it builds up all the quartz elements LOL kinda cool actually seeing how its all rendered. im planning on throwing a Radeon 9200 in here and seeing how that fairs, but im pretty sure everything is VERY CPU bound, as just moving the mouse curser pegs the CPU for example :D right now its running off of the 4400s built in ATI 264VT Graphics chip, which does actually have some driver support in OS X (its how im able to get proper rez and colour depth control) no 3D or anything like that in OS X however. it says VGA display as im using a DB15 to VGA adapter with it connected to my HP w19ev test monitor, I do have a multiple scan 14 that came bundled with the 4400 but its packed away in storage atm. if i drop the Rez low enough i can get millions of colours out of this thing :) it only has about 1MB of VRAM installed IIRC, its in an upgrade slot so it can be upgraded to increase the colour depth at higher resolutions for example.

4400-ATM-GPU.png


I hope this makes sense and is interesting to the members on this forum, its quite a big achievement for me, especially as its taken me over a year to finally get OS X to boot on this 4400, and its the first time I have seen anyone boot any form of OS X on an actual 4400 :)

it is really a shame I cant run anything newer then 10.2.8 on here due to the Xpostfacto BootX incompatibilities that prevent tiger from booting at all that you can read a bit about in the posts before this one, I might be able to boot panther however, but ill have to figure out how to patch and compile its kernel first so it works on the 603ev :D

ill keep you updated as I play with this some more :) I should of probably made this its own thread on the forum... oh well :D
 
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I am very pleased to be bringing you guys and girls this about this Macintosh shot :D

Yes! This is an amazing achievement for Apple’s little Tanzania outcast of the 90s. Who would have ever thought it could boot OS X!? I honestly wish I never sold mine. I had one (a regional model 7220/200) maxed out with 160MB RAM, a 3dfx Voodoo(3?) PCI GPU, 40GB 7200rpm WD HDD and a Sonnet Crescendo L2 G3/400Mhz/1MB upgrade card.

Does your 4400 have it’s L2 cache card installed? The onboard ATi Mach64 was configurable to 2MB VRAM if you can find a module. It does provide 2D acceleration for Mac OS and Linux/X11, perhaps there is a way to activate this on OSX. Panther would likely redraw quicker than Jag.

Keep it up! And I think it does deserve its own thread titled:

Conquering OSX on a 603 :apple:
 
Yes! This is an amazing achievement for Apple’s little Tanzania outcast of the 90s. Who would have ever thought it could boot OS X!? I honestly wish I never sold mine. I had one (a regional model 7220/200) maxed out with 160MB RAM, a 3dfx Voodoo(3?) PCI GPU, 40GB 7200rpm WD HDD and a Sonnet Crescendo L2 G3/400Mhz/1MB upgrade card.

Does your 4400 have it’s L2 cache card installed? The onboard ATi Mach64 was configurable to 2MB VRAM if you can find a module. It does provide 2D acceleration for Mac OS and Linux/X11, perhaps there is a way to activate this on OSX. Panther would likely redraw quicker than Jag.

Keep it up! And I think it does deserve its own thread titled:

Conquering OSX on a 603 :apple:

sounds like you had quite the maxed out 4400 :) I have a love hate relationship with mine, its such a buggy machine its unreal :rolleyes: indeed I have found 10.2.8 to be quite slow in general, and that 10.4 tends to run better on the same hardware. (running 10.2.8 on a G5 is fun tho throwing way more power and ram at it then it can shake a stick at :D )

My 4400 does not have any sort of L2 cache/L2 cache upgrade installed, which is probably part of the reason why it runs so slow :) (Sadly the G3 L2 cache slot upgrade cards do not work in OS X)

in regards to its onboard Graphics chip, the oldest chip to have any sort of more than basic frame buffer support would be the Rage Pro, does have some basic 2D rendering in OS X but nothing 3D like OpenGL (there was a lawsuit in regards to this actually, over the G3 beige not having full acceleration in OS X) you can see the RagePro.kext and RageProGA.bundle in the extensions folder, but anything older than the Rage Pro, like the ATI 264VT mach64 in the Power Mac 4400 only has basic NDRV support theres no Graphics acceleration kexts for it of any kind in OS X. the ATI 264VT does however support 3D in the form Rave in classic Mac OS IIRC, but it does not support OpenGL. (the Rage Pro in OS 9 does do OpenGL)

speaking of Graphics chips, I did test out a Radeon 9200 PCI Mac edition, OS X boots fine with it and the GUI does run a bit smoother, and of course I was able to properly drive my monitor, however enabling QE actually caused a slow down LOL poor PCI bus cant handle it at all :D (I was expecting it to crash and burn at some point with the Radeon 9200, the Firewire card, and a 10BaseT ethernet card I ended up installing LOL)

(PS thanks to the mods for moving the thread :) ) im saving your title @AphoticD for when I get a 6500, as thats when all the fun stuff with a 603 like tiger is going to happen :D
 
I'd be interested in seeing a video of how the system draws the screen...if you're willing to make one.
 
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I'd be interested in seeing a video of how the system draws the screen...if you're willing to make one.

if/when I Make a youtube vid on this setup ill make sure to show how it draws the windows :)

a couple things I forgot to mention in my original post, sound does not seem to work from the internal speaker, ill have to plug in some headphones and see if it works there, but going into system preferences only shows 1 output device..

OS X does detect the serial ports and I think onboard SCSI is working too but I do not have any SCSI or serial devices on hand to test this with (well I have other computers with serial and SCSI ports, but I need to acquire a suitable cable first, im planning to use the DB9 RS232/422 serial port on my Xserve to get my SE connected to the internet :) )
 
Crikey, that is amazing work, must have taken hours, I'm impressed with a) amount of patience and determination, b) technical ability!

I have two of these 4400s and tend to like them for what they are. I notice my 2 have an odd problem sometimes in refusing to start. The saviour is a little on-board button between the PSU/memory that usually re-enables power-up. I've had a PSU die too, that was an easy fix, just a replacement SMPSU chip.

My first one (£10) came with an ethernet card so was useful, but mostly as it comes standard with the right floppy and CDrom so I could use it to setup all my other 68k Macs. It was my "universal" Mac.

Mine gets used for OS7 on the 4400/200 as I like the speed.
 
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They were a unique Mac in their era. From what I recall, the 4400 was one of the first Power Macs to use standard PCI, IDE HDD and ATAPI CD-ROM. 10bT Ethernet was standard on the 200Mhz model. It was like a hybrid Power Mac and Performa built in a hard, industrial-grade box and was the basis for the Mac clones.

I’ve owned three of them in total and I ran OS 8.6 and Linux/PPC on my workhorse (maxed out) 4400(7220), which also blew it’s original PSU.

I can see how the 4400 was the basis for the 6500 and TAM’s Gazelle Board as @LightBulbFun explained. Considering the G3 was a step up from the 603(ev) and not based on 604 architecture, I wouldn’t be surprised if the Tanzania board laid the groundwork for the original 1998 iMac with it’s 603 based CPU design and ATi Rage IIc graphics.

@LightBulbFun, I think if you were to somehow track down a suitable L2 cache (256k) it would make a generous improvement. Combined with the 9200 PCI (sans-QE), it should saunter along in Panther okay.

From what I’ve seen on my Pismo and TiBook, Jag felt slightly sluggish and Panther was snappy, but that might only be specific to the hardware of these laptops, Panther could be quite heavy in resources compared to Jaguar. Can anyone confirm this? I’d have to do more research on the two. I have a preference for Panther due to software options, so maybe this is where my leaning originates.

Also, I’m sure you’ve checked it out, but can the 160Mhz multiplier step up to 5x for a 200Mhz match with the higher end model? The CPU might even be the same across the two models.(?)
 
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They were a unique Mac in their era. From what I recall, the 4400 was one of the first Power Macs to use standard PCI, IDE HDD and ATAPI CD-ROM. 10bT Ethernet was standard on the 200Mhz model. It was like a hybrid Power Mac and Performa built in a hard, industrial-grade box and was the basis for the Mac clones.

I’ve owned three of them in total and I ran OS 8.6 and Linux/PPC on my workhorse (maxed out) 4400(7220), which also blew it’s original PSU.

I can see how the 4400 was the basis for the 6500 and TAM’s Gazelle Board as @LightBulbFun explained. Considering the G3 was a step up from the 603(ev) and not based on 604 architecture, I wouldn’t be surprised if the Tanzania board laid the groundwork for the original 1998 iMac with it’s 603 based CPU design and ATi Rage IIc graphics.

@LightBulbFun, I think if you were to somehow track down a suitable L2 cache (256k) it would make a generous improvement. Combined with the 9200 PCI (sans-QE), it should saunter along in Panther okay.

From what I’ve seen on my Pismo and TiBook, Jag felt slightly sluggish and Panther was snappy, but that might only be specific to the hardware of these laptops, Panther could be quite heavy in resources compared to Jaguar. Can anyone confirm this? I’d have to do more research on the two. I have a preference for Panther due to software options, so maybe this is where my leaning originates.

Also, I’m sure you’ve checked it out, but can the 160Mhz multiplier step up to 5x for a 200Mhz match with the higher end model? The CPU might even be the same across the two models.(?)

unique indeed, floppy drive on the wrong side n all :)

the first Macs to use PCI where the 9500 and 8500 in 1995 :) my 160Mhz 4400 came with a Farallon branded 10BaseT+ BNC/Coax PCI ethernet card, that OS 9 IDs as a "built in ethernet card" so make of that what you will :D its a DEC chipset based card and as such even works fine all the way up to 10.5.8 Leopard :)

in terms of what Macs "slot in" where, the 5400/6400 was the first PowerStar (PSX) based macs, then Apple Made the LPX-40 reference board for the clone market which used the same PSX north-bridge and O'Hare south-bridge that the 5400/6400 used , then apple realised oh damn clones are undercutting us lets make our own "cheap clone" Mac so they spun out the 4400 which was an LPX40 board with all the "MS-DOS PC compatible" stuff stripped out of it, stuffed into a PC LPX form factor case with a macintosh plastic front, then came the 5500-6500(TAM) which is is much more 6400 based then it is 4400 based (granted as I said before in terms of chipset HW etc they are all quiet closely related). the 2400/3400c and Kanga are also PowerStar based machines.

there actually was an even better more advanced "LPX40 board" Tanzania II architecture which took all the enhancements from the 6500 such as the PSX+ chipset running at a 50Mhz bus (which was also used in the Kanga) and applied it to the LPX40 setup, but this "board" was only used by a few clones and is very rare

in regards to what the tray loading iMac "iMac,1" is based off of, its more or less a G3 Beige Shoved into an Fancy AIO case with 10/100 ethernet added :) it uses the Same Gossamer architecture, with the Grackle MPC106 "north bridge" and the Paddington south-bridge, (which was the same Heathrow south-bridge used in the G3 beige, but with 10/100 ethernet added) apart from like the GPU family it shares nothing with the 5500/6500/TAM/4400 Macs, the story of the Gossamer architecture is a fun story in and of its own :)

in regards to the lack of L2 cache, and overclocking it, I have looked at the CPU and IIRC its an IBM PPC603ev rated at 160Mhz, I do have big and better plans for the 4400s CPU tho :) im planning to at some point find an MPC740 and solder it in place of the 603ev giving the 4400 a true G3 upgrade (that OS X can use) :) but I have to find a suitable CPU first :D

and finally, sadly I was unable to win the 6500 i was bidding on, but every dark cloud has a silver lining and in this case my silver lining was, I spotted a nice G5 quad that was ending soon after I had lost the 6500, so I decided to have a go at the G5 Quad and I managed to win it for close to the same price the 6500 went for! (quite a good price on a G5 Quad a bit stupid expensive for a 6500 however :D 6500s really do sell for quite a bit here it seems sadly, I bid more then 50 quid and still lost/got outbid and thats not counting shipping,) the G5 Quad "God Box" is 1 of the 3 Macs I have really wanted (and have been on the hunt for, for a good few years now), the other 2 being A Power Macintosh 9600 and a Power Macintosh 6500 :D the Quad being a DDR2 G5, it will enable me to test out my 4GB DDR2 DIMMs that I mentioned before in other threads :)

Sounds similar to when I managed to get the Ubuntu 12.04 live dvd to boot and run on my 300mhz Wallstreet :p

I have done ubuntu mate 16.04 on a 266Mhz G3 beige :p
 
I have done ubuntu mate 16.04 on a 266Mhz G3 beige :p

Yeah I've done various installs of Debian on my Wallstreet, including Jessie. What my post was referring to was just booting and running the 12.04 live cd, which was an exercise in extreme slow screen drawing and 2 minute wait after clicking for something to happen, like you were describing with your Jaguar install. It was one of those things I did just to see if it could be done, and was a completely worthless exercise on my part :)

Here's the post: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/ubuntu-live-cd-on-wallstreet-impossible.1959190

EDIT: aaaand you're on that post as well... heh
 
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unique indeed, floppy drive on the wrong side n all :)

the first Macs to use PCI where the 9500 and 8500 in 1995 :) my 160Mhz 4400 came with a Farallon branded 10BaseT+ BNC/Coax PCI ethernet card, that OS 9 IDs as a "built in ethernet card" so make of that what you will :D its a DEC chipset based card and as such even works fine all the way up to 10.5.8 Leopard :)

in terms of what Macs "slot in" where, the 5400/6400 was the first PowerStar (PSX) based macs, then Apple Made the LPX-40 reference board for the clone market which used the same PSX north-bridge and O'Hare south-bridge that the 5400/6400 used , then apple realised oh damn clones are undercutting us lets make our own "cheap clone" Mac so they spun out the 4400 which was an LPX40 board with all the "MS-DOS PC compatible" stuff stripped out of it, stuffed into a PC LPX form factor case with a macintosh plastic front, then came the 5500-6500(TAM) which is is much more 6400 based then it is 4400 based (granted as I said before in terms of chipset HW etc they are all quiet closely related). the 2400/3400c and Kanga are also PowerStar based machines.

there actually was an even better more advanced "LPX40 board" Tanzania II architecture which took all the enhancements from the 6500 such as the PSX+ chipset running at a 50Mhz bus (which was also used in the Kanga) and applied it to the LPX40 setup, but this "board" was only used by a few clones and is very rare

in regards to what the tray loading iMac "iMac,1" is based off of, its more or less a G3 Beige Shoved into an Fancy AIO case with 10/100 ethernet added :) it uses the Same Gossamer architecture, with the Grackle MPC106 "north bridge" and the Paddington south-bridge, (which was the same Heathrow south-bridge used in the G3 beige, but with 10/100 ethernet added) apart from like the GPU family it shares nothing with the 5500/6500/TAM/4400 Macs, the story of the Gossamer architecture is a fun story in and of its own :)

in regards to the lack of L2 cache, and overclocking it, I have looked at the CPU and IIRC its an IBM PPC603ev rated at 160Mhz, I do have big and better plans for the 4400s CPU tho :) im planning to at some point find an MPC740 and solder it in place of the 603ev giving the 4400 a true G3 upgrade (that OS X can use) :) but I have to find a suitable CPU first :D

and finally, sadly I was unable to win the 6500 i was bidding on, but every dark cloud has a silver lining and in this case my silver lining was, I spotted a nice G5 quad that was ending soon after I had lost the 6500, so I decided to have a go at the G5 Quad and I managed to win it for close to the same price the 6500 went for! (quite a good price on a G5 Quad a bit stupid expensive for a 6500 however :D 6500s really do sell for quite a bit here it seems sadly, I bid more then 50 quid and still lost/got outbid and thats not counting shipping,) the G5 Quad "God Box" is 1 of the 3 Macs I have really wanted (and have been on the hunt for, for a good few years now), the other 2 being A Power Macintosh 9600 and a Power Macintosh 6500 :D the Quad being a DDR2 G5, it will enable me to test out my 4GB DDR2 DIMMs that I mentioned before in other threads :)



I have done ubuntu mate 16.04 on a 266Mhz G3 beige :p


Damn you’re good! You could write a history book on this stuff. Filled with glossy photos of all the boards and CPU designs. It would make a handsome coffee table reference guide for the serious Mac hardware enthusiast.

It’s a shame you missed the 6500, but the Quad should keep you entertained for some time! Paying top dollar for some of these dusty old Macs doesn’t doesn’t always make a lot of sense from an external point of view, but we get it mate ;)
 
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and finally, sadly I was unable to win the 6500 i was bidding on

Tough one. It went for too much. I messed around with mine last night and made zero headway with Tiger. OF just does not want to know.
I found the small box the 6500 came with and that contained the following:

Cd 01 Restore CD
Cd 02 Tour CD
Cd 03 Weekend Warrior
Cd 04 Thinking Things
Cd 05 KidPix Studio
Cd 06 The Amazing Writing Machine
Cd 07 Descent II
Cd 08 Mayo Clinic Family Health v2
Cd 09 Where in the USA is Carmen Sandiego?
Cd 10 VR Soccer 96 3D
Cd 11 Virtual Pool 3D
Cd 12 Now TouchBase & DataBook Pro
Cd 13 abc 3D Atlas 97
Cd 14 Mechwarrior 2
Cd 15 Grolier 1997

IMG_20171016_110853~2-1200x1600.jpg

Also a few utility diskettes but 15 CDs is ridiculous. Nowadays you get iWork and that is your lot.
 
Crikey, that is amazing work, must have taken hours, I'm impiressed with a) amount of patience and determination, b) technical ability!

I have two of these 4400s and tend to like them for what they are. I notice my 2 have an odd problem sometimes in refusing to start. The saviour is a little on-board button between the PSU/memory that usually re-enables power-up. I've had a PSU die too, that was an easy fix, just a replacement SMPU chip.

My first one (£10) came with an ethernet card so was useful, but mostly as it comes standard with the right floppy and CDrom so I could use it to setup all my other 98k Macs. It was my "universal" Mac.

Mine gets used for OS7 on the 4400/200 as I like the speed.

Thanks :) indeed it took a LOT of work and a LOT of time to pull it off but I did :)

I have a Picture somewhere of the 4400 running 7.6.1 with a Radeon 9200 driving my main display at 2048x1152 :) I should find that picture and upload it, I also have a picture of it driving a 23 inch acrylic cinema display and multiple scan 14 at the same time in System 7.6.1 :D
 
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Wow thats incredible, I remember way back in the early days of OS X getting it running on a old 8600 I had, but that's not nearly as much of an effort as you have undertaken. Plus there was a lot more people doing it then and working on it.
 
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Wow thats incredible, I remember way back in the early days of OS X getting it running on a old 8600 I had, but that's not nearly as much of an effort as you have undertaken. Plus there was a lot more people doing it then and working on it.

Thanks, indeed i was really excited as I saw OS X finally boot up and show a desktop :)

BTW couple updates and things to note

I have mentioned this in other posts but its worth mentioning here that the BootX File from Xpostfacto 4 does not work with the 4400 and I have played with a few OpenFirmware patches to try and get it to work but sadly it does not so I have to use the one from Xpostfacto 3 which luckily does work with the 4400 and 10.2.8 but sadly does not work with Tiger.

on a better note I got an ACARD AEC 6280M ATA133 PCI card and im very pleased to report that it works 100% in the 4400 it works both in classic Mac OS and in OpenFirmware and as such I am able to boot OS X from it, so now I no longer have to do the whole helper volume and a Pismo in TDM thing to boot 10.2.8 :) (I still have to nuke the ohare ATA kexts of course since adding a PCI card aint going to change the situation of the onboard ATA controller and its broken-ness)
 
in regards to the lack of L2 cache, and overclocking it, I have looked at the CPU and IIRC its an IBM PPC603ev rated at 160Mhz, I do have big and better plans for the 4400s CPU tho :) im planning to at some point find an MPC740 and solder it in place of the 603ev giving the 4400 a true G3 upgrade (that OS X can use) :) but I have to find a suitable CPU first :D

Lots of printers will have the MPC740 which clocks up to 366MHz (MPC740A), 400MHz (MPC740P) or 533MHz (MPC740L), e.g. Xerox 8825/8830/Phaser 5400 etc.

Vcore should be adjusted for the MPC/XPC740A version (2.6V) or MPC740L (1.9V), not entirely sure about the MPC740P version (either 2.6V or 1.9V according to sources).

Do you know where to adjust this on the Tanzania mobo? I am thinking of doing the same to a Gazelle mobo
 
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Lots of printers will have the MPC740 which clocks up to 366MHz (MPC740A), 400MHz (MPC740P) or 533MHz (MPC740L), e.g. Xerox 8825/8830/Phaser 5400 etc.

Vcore should be adjusted for the MPC/XPC740A version (2.6V) or MPC740L (1.9V), not entirely sure about the MPC740P version (either 2.6V or 1.9V according to sources).

Do you know where to adjust this on the Tanzania mobo? I am thinking of doing the same to a Gazelle mobo

a few years ago I did get ahold of some MPC740A's from the kind chap who runs CPU-Shack along with some other neat CPU's!

and I did try soldering one of these to my 4400, but either I had a duff chip, a bridged solder connection, or missed something fundamentally incompatible

as the 740 just got very hot very quickly and the system did not chime or anything such, clearly an unhappy bunny, its still awaiting to this day for me to slap the 603ev back on it, make sure everything is still working and then try another 740!

but theres a fair old queue ahead of it for when I do get the soldering station back up and running!

it will be interesting to hear how things go on your Gazelle motherboard should you attempt the swap :)
 
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a few years ago I did get ahold of some MPC740A's from the kind chap who runs CPU-Shack along with some other neat CPU's!

and I did try soldering one of these to my 4400, but either I had a duff chip, a bridged solder connection, or missed something fundamentally incompatible

as the 740 just got very hot very quickly and the system did not chime or anything such, clearly an unhappy bunny, its still awaiting to this day for me to slap the 603ev back on it, make sure everything is still working and then try another 740!

but theres a fair old queue ahead of it for when I do get the soldering station back up and running!

it will be interesting to hear how things go on your Gazelle motherboard should you attempt the swap :)

Nice work on trying it out! I heard similar stories from other sources, i.e. on the PB540 ppc card and blizzard ppc:




However there are sources indicating success for the blizzarp ppc, not sure how trustworthy though:


Could it be that the 0.1V difference is enough to prevent it from booting? At least your MPC740A gets hot which could already be an indication that it's actually wired properly. Which model is it? I read that the MPC740A in the 200-266MHz range has a Vcore of 2.6V however the MPCA in the 300-333MHz range has a Vcore of 1.9V, maybe it's worth trying 1.9V?


Re the Gazelle mobo I'll let you know whenever I get ahold of a 740 CPU!

Cheers,
 
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