Suggestions For Basic Home Theatre -- TV, Apple TV, Receiver, Speakers, ...

[jamesmcnee]

Santa is thinking of helping my daughter with better sound for her TeeVee set up.

I can't even spell HDMI so any advice would be much appreciated.

She has:

* a good TV with a bunch of HDMI ports

* an Apple TV (the box, not the service)

I figure it is easy to get a basic A/V receiver, and two sets of passive speakers (one for her TV and a remote set for music in the kitchen).

No need for a centre channel, 5.1, bla bla bla

Speakers I can manage (I put on my old man stereo hat!)

Just want to check about connecting Television / Apple TV / Receiver I assume through HDMI.

Thoughts?

Thanks

 

[niteflyr]

HDMI from TV cable box/antennae to receiver input. HDMI from Apple TV to another receiver input. HDMI from receiver output to television. Use the receiver to switch between the two sources.

 

[waw74]

going outside of the electronic and technical side of it, aesthetics should be a consideration too when giving het something that's going to visually impact the look of her home.
Does she want 3 boxes (AV receiver, and 2 speakers) or a sound bar under the TV. The sound bar will be much cleaner visually, and unless you're doing an intense audio setup, a receiver is a bit overkill these days. the receiver will require furniture of some sort under the TV, as will the speakers, the sound bar can be attached directly to the wall. There is also hardware available that lets you attach to the bottom of the TV wall mount. or can be set on a table underneath. Receiver + speakers will also add more cable to hide, possibly running to the next room.


I'm a huge fan of Sonos, you can get one of their sound bars, and a speaker for the kitchen. Assuming her TV has an HDMI ARC port*. (should be fairly common on all but the cheapest sets, usually port #2, and should be clearly labeled) the Sonos beam is an excellent choice.

With Sonos, you can use their app to play music directly on the speakers, it works with pretty much every streaming service out there. Or you can use airplay from your phone. Their app works on multiple devices, So you can use a computer (Win or Mac) or android devices at the same time. so start something playing from your phone, but skip songs or change volumes from your Mac. Also, once audio is into the Sonos system, it's available on all the others, so you can easily have the TV audio coming from all the speakers in the house.

also Sonos lets her easily expand in the future, so if she wanted music in her bedroom or bathroom, all she has to do is get another speaker, the app will work her though adding it to the system.

Even though you can airplay from the aTV to a variety of speakers, I would not use this as the default for TV watching, It can be a bit buggy, and you have to re-connect airplay every time you want to watch TV. It's easy, but would get annoying after a bit.


with Sonos, you can get the beam and an ERA100 for cyber monday for about $570 vs $750 regularly. Their Ray soundbar does not have HDMI input, only optical. there are also speakers frequently available on your local online marketplace like Facebook.
For the non sound bar speakers. There are some compatible ones from IKEA that are cheaper, and still very decent. also battery powered portable ones from Sonos, so she could grab the kitchen speaker and go hang out on the patio. The portable ones also double as standard bluetooth speakers, so she could take it for a day at the park.

*HDMI-ARC, the ARC stands for audio return channel, It allows sound to run "backwards" out of an HDMI input on the TV. It just keeps cables a bit cleaner. It's uses different pins on the HDMI cable than regular HDMI audio, so both devices must support ARC.
Using ARC will also assure the aTV remote can easily control the volume of the sound bar. It actually uses another thing called HDMI-CEC for volume control, but ARC devices usually support CEC. It will also mean the aTV remote can power on the TV. Without CEC, the appleTV remote will use IR to control your devices, it works ok, but can be a little hit or miss at times.

 

[jamesmcnee]

From basic cabling to aesthetic considerations with a side order of SONOS -- thanks to both of you!

I better go advance her apartment and do some thinking.

Well done and many thanks!

 

[Mitthrawnuruodo]

I used to have a Bluesound Node 2i with a pair of relatively good speakers hooked up to an eARC HDMI port. Worked fairly well for TV, but the Bluesound - even if it supported Airplay 2, officially - never really played nice with Apple Music.

So I sold the Bluesound, stored the speakers, and bough myself a pair of Homepod 2 when those came out.

Plays nice with the Apple TV (I watch everything via the Apple TV), and the sound is awesome (for their size). Much better than my old setup.

 

[erihp]

You might consider 3 or 4 homepod Minis. No AVR and complicated remote setup needed.

Two for stereo mode to the Apple TV in living room, and the others you can place around her space in other rooms.

This would allow for Airplay audio to all Homepods, giving her a synced, 'whole house audio' feel when listening to music. It really is great.

whatever you do im sure she will appreciate it!

 

[HobeSoundDarryl]

While I would always recommend Receiver + "dumb" speakers for ultimate home theater sound (and such a system could be built up over time)... if you want a "smart"-based option, I'd discourage HPs because they are limited to stereo only, are thoroughly “locked down” and second the Sonos option. If you like it, I suggest ARC or the new Ultra ARC for starters. Then you can add to that with future gifts.

If you want to spend more than that, I suggest either of those plus two 300s to use as "surround sound" speakers. That combo will sound quite good for only 3 physical speakers.

If you want to max her setup out and she likes bass, add the latest gen, full-size SUB to that mix: Arc + twin 300s + SUB. That is a surprisingly good-sounding setup for a wireless, soundbar-based one. It also is fully compatible with Apple Music (and many other services), and works with Airplay and HomeKit too.

And if you like the "whole home" suggestion offered in a prior post (and a good choice for that kitchen), you/she can add other Sonos speakers like Move to other rooms and have music play to all speakers in the system for whole home audio. Move is like HP except already compatible with many more music services AND it includes a built-in battery to make it easy to carry into other rooms/places to enjoy "there" too… including outdoors.

This all works great with Apple tech. I use such speakers almost every day myself in an Apple-dominated household.

Sonos is focused on home audio. It's not just an add-on, side interest. They've already worked out whole systems for home theater vs. being limited to stereo-only options. There's not even 1 rumor of HPs going any further than stereo.

Again, just Arc or Arc Ultra can be an ideal, “basic” starter to which the others could be added over time if desired. Go this (or the Receiver + some "dumb" speakers) way and you have that option to build out the rest of a great home theater system at any time (including NOW) vs. being limited to stereo at best.

 

[erihp]

i mean considering all of Sonos's blunders the past few years... i'd be leery to spend that much on their offerings.

One day they may decide to not 'let' you use your speakers how you want to.

I think the Homepod minis are a better fit for this use case of serving the needs of a younger user. They also act as a home hub, so additional features that HomeKit has to offer can be added on at a low cost.

Sonos + a Sub seems pretty 'premium' for a little TV speaker boost for who knows what kind of $300 Target Tv she has 🙂

 

[HobeSoundDarryl]

You do realize that Apple could do the "one day" thing too, right? In fact, Apple has ALREADY made the corp decision to not let GEN 1 HP stereo pair with GEN 2. If it's actually a possibility that Sonos could do it, Apple could do it too. So if it's a bad idea to consider Sonos for that reason, it's an equally bad idea to consider HPs.

And OP says she has "a good TV," not a $300 cheapie. While OP does imply only "better" sound than great sound, the cost difference between "better" and "great" is not so much. And unlike most of the junk people buy for holiday gifting, speakers are something that- if one gets good ones- can be enjoyed for the next few DECADES instead of only a few years.

Whether OP's daughter wants/needs the SUB or not is up to her... but with that option she can add far superior bass than leaning on HPs and she can also add true surround sound if desired too... vs. being limited to stereo only up front.

IMO: until Apple decides to go "all the way" in audio home theater, HPs are a home theater dead end, limited to stereo-only sound at best. There is not even 1 rumor of Apple taking HPs any further than that. While HPs easily sound wayyyyyyyyyy better than speakers built into about any "good TV," the pricey budget for 2 HPs will easily help buy options that are better suited to Home Theater audio aspirations. I'd also suggest putting such money towards more flexible options than hard capping ultimate potential to stereo alone.

HP s are best suited for the original purpose: MUSIC, in rooms/spaces without speakers. While they deliver great stereo-only sound (at best) when used with TV + AppleTV, home theaters are much better suited to have at least the potential for true surround, a sub for bass, etc.

Since this is a gift- and thus FREE- daughter will probably be happy with anything given. But if the intent of this purchase is mostly improving home theater audio quality, gift giver doesn't have to somewhat limit daughter to stereo-only by simply using the same money towards other options that will also immediately upgrade the audio quality AND come with the flexibility to build out "the rest" of good home theater sound if she wants it... sooner or later.

I'd still argue in support of OPs thinking that a Receiver + some starter (good-to-great) "dumb" speakers would be very best option, but notches down from that and above ANY option limited to only stereo would have to be the Sonos setup previously described (or something similar).

 

[erihp]

You do realize that Apple could do the "one day" thing too, right? In fact, Apple has ALREADY made the corp decision to not let GEN 1 HP stereo pair with GEN 2. If it's actually a possibility that Sonos could do it, Apple could do it too. So if it's a bad idea to consider Sonos for that reason, it's an equally bad idea to consider HPs.

And OP says she has "a good TV," not a $300 cheapie. While OP does imply only "better" sound than great sound, the cost difference between "better" and "great" is not so much. And unlike most of the junk people buy for holiday gifting, speakers are something that- if one gets good ones- can be enjoyed for the next few DECADES instead of only a few years.

Whether OP's daughter wants/needs the SUB or not is up to her... but with that option she can add far superior bass than leaning on HPs and she can also add true surround sound if desired too... vs. being limited to stereo only up front.

IMO: until Apple decides to go "all the way" in audio home theater, HPs are a home theater dead end, limited to stereo-only sound at best. There is not even 1 rumor of Apple taking HPs any further than that. While HPs easily sound wayyyyyyyyyy better than speakers built into about any "good TV," the pricey budget for 2 HPs will easily help buy options that are better suited to Home Theater audio aspirations. I'd also suggest putting such money towards more flexible options than hard capping ultimate potential to stereo alone.

HP s are best suited for the original purpose: MUSIC, in rooms/spaces without speakers. While they deliver great stereo-only sound (at best) when used with TV + AppleTV, home theaters are much better suited to have at least the potential for true surround, a sub for bass, etc.

Since this is a gift- and thus FREE- daughter will probably be happy with anything given. But if the intent of this purchase is mostly improving home theater audio quality, gift giver doesn't have to somewhat limit daughter to stereo-only by simply using the same money towards other options that will also immediately upgrade the audio quality AND come with the flexibility to build out "the rest" of good home theater sound if she wants it... sooner or later.

I'd still argue in support of OPs thinking that a Receiver + some starter (good-to-great) "dumb" speakers would be very best option, but notches down from that and above ANY option limited to only stereo would have to be the Sonos setup previously described (or something similar).

as long as airplay is supported the apple HPs will work fine long term. take the airport express as an example.

that said i agree the value for money and sound quality goes to second hand avr and dumb speakers, there sure is a lot involved, and adds complexity to how you control it as well.

i still say 4 or 5 homepod minis, and youd still be in under half the price of a sonos soundbar.

 

[HobeSoundDarryl]

"As long as airplay is supported by Sonos, Sonos will work fine long term too."

Sonos has no incentive to kill airplay. Instead they are focused on speakers and only speakers... so they support Airplay just as fully, along with HomeKit, Apple Music, and all of the other music sources too (unlike HPs). And in this concept of leaning on Airplay for the future, Daughter can lean on the HP "smarts" in the same devices she would lean on for Airplay: the AppleTV she already has, the iPhone and/or iPad and/or Mac she presumably already has too.

For home theater purposes (as Santa intends) 4 or 5 HP Minis would be only up to 2 for the TV... and thus only stereo at best. ARC would be front left, right and center channel in one purchase, with the flexibility to add other speakers for true surround and a SUB for deeper bass if daughter wants either. And even though OP dismisses center as important, in home theater, center is mostly for crisp, clear dialogue vs. faking it through a faux center generated by 2 stereo speakers. Daughter will hear what characters are saying on her TV much more clearly if she has a true center. One might argue that center is actually MORE important than left & right for that purpose.

If Santa wanted to give daughter easy access to good-sounding music all over the house, I could get more behind the HP suggestion (though I'd still favor Sonos Move over HPs myself). But the focus is on home theater and limiting daughter to stereo at best is quite the cap on her TV audio potential.

And yes, the best option- Receiver + some "Dumb" speakers- is more complicated to set up ONCE. But once it is in place, it is about as easy to use. I click one button to turn my setup like that on and one button to turn it off. Volume up & down controls the volume. Etc. The big advantage to going to that trouble one time is that it can easily evolve into a full home theater setup (including true not faux ATMOS if desired) AND "dumb" speakers can never become obsolete by either company deciding to dump them by changing their "smarts" on which smart speakers depend. Sonos and HP are like iMac: when any one part is made obsolete or fails, the whole thing has to be junked. "Dumb" speakers are the ones that can confidently last many decades with reasonable care.

All that offered though- if "Santa" is really looking for rationalizations to give daughter HPs- and only HPs- and what they wrote in post #1 was just a smoke screen, if I was "Santa" I'd be giving her full-sized HPs for Home Theater purposes vs. Minis. The bigger ones do sound better and TV audio should sound as good as anyone can afford since that tends to get used every day... for years and years.

 

[shakopeemn]

You might consider 3 or 4 homepod Minis. No AVR and complicated remote setup needed.

Two for stereo mode to the Apple TV in living room, and the others you can place around her space in other rooms.

Agree. I use 2 Homepod Minis as my wireless speakers with my AppleTV.

You can't beat the aesthetics - the Minis have one wire running to them. This gives me clearer audio and music than the TV can provide. The voice control is a benefit as well. Although, I do wish Apple had a separate voice and media volume setting, it speaks a bit too soft.

 

[kiranmk2]

For ease of use and sound quality, I would go with Sonos. Depending on the budget (and whether refurbs are acceptible) I would go with a Beam 2nd gen or Arc 1st gen (these are now being sold off) for the TV and then either a refurb Move 1st gen, or pair of refurb Ones for the kitchen. The Beam/Arc will be a great starting point for the TV and give a great sound that can be expanded later as needed. The Move also gives a great sound and can also be moved around the house/apartment as needed. Alternatively a pair of One's for the kitchen will give a fantastic stereo sound and could be conjoined to the Beam/Arc when and if needed to give a full surround for movie night. Doing this will also enable music to be played on all the speakers (or selected speakers) with ease for party nights.

As has been pointed out, a decent AV amp with dumb speakers for the TV and a pair of zone 2 speakers for the kitchen is probably the simplest setup and if the amp supports AirPlay 2 (and Spotify Connect she uses Spotify) will probably sound better than the soundbars (due to a better stereo separation), but it will have the wires and the hassles of switching inputs.

 

[erihp]

For ease of use and sound quality, I would go with Sonos. Depending on the budget (and whether refurbs are acceptible) I would go with a Beam 2nd gen or Arc 1st gen (these are now being sold off) for the TV and then either a refurb Move 1st gen, or pair of refurb Ones for the kitchen. The Beam/Arc will be a great starting point for the TV and give a great sound that can be expanded later as needed. The Move also gives a great sound and can also be moved around the house/apartment as needed. Alternatively a pair of One's for the kitchen will give a fantastic stereo sound and could be conjoined to the Beam/Arc when and if needed to give a full surround for movie night. Doing this will also enable music to be played on all the speakers (or selected speakers) with ease for party nights.

As has been pointed out, a decent AV amp with dumb speakers for the TV and a pair of zone 2 speakers for the kitchen is probably the simplest setup and if the amp supports AirPlay 2 (and Spotify Connect she uses Spotify) will probably sound better than the soundbars (due to a better stereo separation), but it will have the wires and the hassles of switching inputs.

i mean you are right, sonos works and sounds great when it works but i just cant support their business practices over the year and shaky software engineering decisions/directions lately. gotta vote with the wallet on this one. if im buying in to proprietary lock in, its gonna be first party, ala homepod. while i agree a full blown sonos setup would blow away any homepod setup, it would also cost 3-5x.

this is a young woman's apartment, not a movie theater. subwoofers suggested by others seem overkill. do kids these days even watch movies anymore? 🙂

in my mind, synced music in every room, good tv audio, built in homekit hubs, add a HKSV pet camera, with a couple Homekit smart plugs and fun lights... That would provide a much better overall upgrade than a sonos soundbar alone, and at a fraction of the price.

 

[kiranmk2]

i mean you are right, sonos works and sounds great when it works but i just cant support their business practices over the year and shaky software engineering decisions/directions lately. gotta vote with the wallet on this one. if im buying in to proprietary lock in, its gonna be first party, ala homepod. while i agree a full blown sonos setup would blow away any homepod setup, it would also cost 3-5x.

this is a young woman's apartment, not a movie theater. subwoofers suggested by others seem overkill. do kids these days even watch movies anymore? 🙂

in my mind, synced music in every room, good tv audio, built in homekit hubs, add a HKSV pet camera, with a couple Homekit smart plugs and fun lights... That would provide a much better overall upgrade than a sonos soundbar alone, and at a fraction of the price.

TBH, I've only got a Sonos One and I never use the Sonos app. Everything is AirPlay's or Spotify Connect'd so the apparent app shambles has completed passed me by. Even if I had a further speaker in a different room, I believe I can still use AirPlay 2 to address the different speakers without touching the Sonos app (I might be wrong on this one).

As you suggest, my suspicion is that a lot of young people these days would value simplicity (a single soundbar with the TV and a single speaker in another room) over complexity (multiple speakers by the TV or around the living room) and the ability to sync music to multiple rooms is probably a bigger selling point than 9.1.4 Atmos setup from multiple speakers and subs. That said, the nice thing about the Sonos soundbars (and an AV amp) is that you can start out with a single unit and then build out if you want.

 

[erihp]

TBH, I've only got a Sonos One and I never use the Sonos app. Everything is AirPlay's or Spotify Connect'd so the apparent app shambles has completed passed me by. Even if I had a further speaker in a different room, I believe I can still use AirPlay 2 to address the different speakers without touching the Sonos app (I might be wrong on this one).

As you suggest, my suspicion is that a lot of young people these days would value simplicity (a single soundbar with the TV and a single speaker in another room) over complexity (multiple speakers by the TV or around the living room) and the ability to sync music to multiple rooms is probably a bigger selling point than 9.1.4 Atmos setup from multiple speakers and subs. That said, the nice thing about the Sonos soundbars (and an AV amp) is that you can start out with a single unit and then build out if you want.

again i agree with the -idea- that sonos is great a great solution.

the -problem- is the cost

 

[HobeSoundDarryl]

this is a young woman's apartment, not a movie theater. subwoofers suggested by others seem overkill. do kids these days even watch movies anymore? 🙂

Don't think so immediate term. She'll probably have that TV and these speakers for upwards of 10+ years. Speakers are like that. They tend to last far longer than stuff like iPhones, Macs and tablets. I expect my main "dumb" speakers to still be in play- and sounded just as good- upwards of 20-30 years from now. Good speakers are like that too.

In 10 years, this young woman will not be so young, almost certainly NOT still be in the same apartment, etc. And at some point as her adulthood evolves, she may find her set up in a room suitable for going beyond the hard cap of stereo only. Rather than throw out whatever Santa might buy her this year, Santa could give a gift with much greater flexibility than stereo-only-at-best HPs. The cost difference between 2 full-size HPs and the starter ARC is not that much. But only one of those can grow as her life evolves.

 

[bevon7]

Does the daughter stream video only, i.e. Netflix, Prime. If so ATV 4K and Apple HomePods Gen 2 for the better sound than the mini's. If she will watch DVD, grab a basic AV receiver and some good bookshelf speakers (I like the AudioEngine HD6 @ $599 a pair. Well worth it). Watch/listen to streams with the HomePods; when playing DVDs switch the receiver input to DVD to drive the sound to the passive speakers. If she later wants a more theater-like experience, center channel speaker and subwoofer may be added to the receiver. Don't skimp on cheap speakers.

 

[erihp]

Does the daughter stream video only, i.e. Netflix, Prime. If so ATV 4K and Apple HomePods Gen 2 for the better sound than the mini's. If she will watch DVD, grab a basic AV receiver and some good bookshelf speakers (I like the AudioEngine HD6 @ $599 a pair. Well worth it). Watch/listen to streams with the HomePods; when playing DVDs switch the receiver input to DVD to drive the sound to the passive speakers. If she later wants a more theater-like experience, center channel speaker and subwoofer may be added to the receiver. Don't skimp on cheap speakers.

this is kind of my earlier point. young people dont watch DVDs or Blurays or want 5 remotes and memorize settings.

if budget allows, sure full size homepods for the TV and the minis around the house would be great.

to me an army of homepods wins out over a single sound bar, especially because of Homekit.