Supreme Court Allows App Store Monopoly Lawsuit Against Apple to Proceed [Updated]

[StyxMaker]

Smartphone monopoly is not what this is about. Apple does not have a monopoly on smartphones/mobile devices. As you guys have pointed out, we have the option of buying a smart phone/mobile device from another company.

This is about a monopoly on app distribution for Apple iOS mobile devices. You cannot get apps from another App Store can you?

You guys see the difference?

Just answer this... If I wanted to get apps for my Apple iOS smart phone/mobile devices where do I go? What are my options?

You guys see it now?

I like the App Store and would rather get my apps from it than from an unsecured website but I do see the monopoly point.

It will be interested to see where this goes.

Were you aware, at the time of purchase, that you would only be able to get apps for your phone through Apple’s App Store? I will assume you were. Now you demand that Apple change the business practices that you agreed to when you made that purchase. As has been pointed out by so many others, if you disagreed with Apple’s business practices you should not have purchased their phone.

 

[timeconsumer]

Go back to what Steve Jobs said. Developers are free to create whatever web apps they want, including porn. Web apps were already there even before the App Store was a thing.

Do web apps have the same capabilities as iOS apps? I am not a developer but it seems to me like web apps wouldn’t be able to call as many API’s. So web apps may be viable for some apps but not for all.

 

[iPad Air]

It’s not though. You’re basically buying a license to software that comes with an end user license agreement (EULA) which dictates what can and can’t be done with the software. It’s not a monopoly because one can easily buy something else.

Bingo. Get an Android.

 

[tamaralig]

Good. It IS a monopoly.

As I've said repeatedly, it's not Apple's iPhone, it's MY iPhone. I should have the choice to install apps from whatever source I desire, and I shouldn't have to go through ridiculous machinations with Xcode every week to do it.

But.......you knew this when you bought the iPhone stop wussing out now. Go with a mobile OS that supports what you want upfront
[doublepost=1557796323][/doublepost]

It wont. This will go nowhere, platform holders take cuts everywhere (console stores, Steam, Epic Store, literally any marketplace on earth does so to finance the delivery of said content).
30% is the average fee, it‘s ugly but everyone does it.

I, for one, am against having other places than the App Store for app distribution. One unified place to get your apps (securely and up-to-date) from beats out the mess you find on Android.

I agree and if Apples hand is forced I wouldn’t provide support beyond iOS itself. You go through a 3rd party yourself, then be your own support. I’m for keeping App Store as is. I knew what I was getting into when I first bought the iPhone 3GS

 

[mannyvel]

Really, the court just said that the plaintiffs have the standing to sue.

"At this early pleadings stage of the litigation, we do not assess the merits of the plaintiffs’ antitrust claims against Apple, nor do we consider any other defenses Apple might have."

They are going to have to prove that Apple is a monopoly and that it's overcharging customers. It'll be hard to say Apple is overcharging anyone given that a ton of apps are like $.99, a bunch more are free, and big players like Netflix survive and thrive on the store by allowing people to pay on the web.

I'm not seeing a lot of consumer harm here. Being a monopoly isn't a crime per se. What got Microsoft was illegally tying unrelated products together. Other companies have been ht by unfairly using their monopoly to self-promote, like google does.

That's going to be a high bar. The only possible abuse would be the screen time stuff, where apple essentially killed a bunch of Screen Time competitors...but since it's a free feature it's hard to say whether that would fall under the umbrella.

 

[pika2000]

Do web apps have the same capabilities as iOS apps? I am not a developer but it seems to me like web apps wouldn’t be able to call as many API’s. So web apps may be viable for some apps but not for all.

Why would a porn app require such advance API access?
If you want freedom, do it yourself. If you want Apple’s candies, play with their rules.

 

[timeconsumer]

Why would a porn app require such advance API access?
If you want freedom, do it yourself. If you want Apple’s candies, play with their rules.

A porn app wouldn’t. Where or how in my post did you deduce I was referring to a porn app?

The App Store on iOS is a monopoly. If you want to download an app made for iOS you have to go through the App Store. As a developer, if you want to write an app for iOS you have to go through the App Store. It’s only a monopoly because Apple doesn’t allow another avenue for installing apps. I personally prefer the security the App Store provides but Apple should provide another way.

 

[mannyvel]

If you want to download an app made for iOS you have to go through the App Store. As a developer, if you want to write an app for iOS you have to go through the App Store. It’s only a monopoly because Apple doesn’t allow another avenue for installing apps. I personally prefer the security the App Store provides but Apple should provide another way.

Well actually, you can get an enterprise certificate and bypass the App Store completely. It does cost more, but it's not hard to do.

https://developer.apple.com/programs/enterprise/how-it-works/

 

[rafark]

As much as I hate the overly controlled AppStore, this monopoly thing is ridiculous. It was ridiculous with Microsoft and it's still ridiculous now with apple. Their OS, their rules. Don't like it? Don't buy it. Get something else. Free market.

 

[MadeTheSwitch]

We're confident we will prevail when the facts are presented and that the App Store is not a monopoly by any metric.

What are they smoking there? Can I load apps from other app stores? Download and install from the internet? No. Not without jailbreaking and violating user agreement. Thus it’s a monopoly.

It would be like being imprisoned in a mall with only one store to shop at, and the only way to visit another store, would be to break out of the mall.

I am not sure what choice Apple thinks is being given here, other then to either jailbreak or walk away from Apple all together.

 

[rafark]

What are they smoking there? Can I load apps from other app stores? Download and install from the internet? No. Not without jailbreaking and violating user agreement. Thus it’s a monopoly.

It would be like being imprisoned in a mall with only one store to shop at, and the only way to visit another store, would be to break out of the mall.

I am not sure what choice Apple thinks is being given here, other then to either jailbreak or walk away from Apple all together.

You are actually not imprisoned.

Said mall has great interiors and amenities but only one department store. You can enter or leave at any time. There's also another mall on the other block that has several stores. You can choose which of the two you go to (or none at all).

Would you go to your local mall and *demand*, not ask, *demand* the owners to open a space for regular people to sell their stuff there? Of course not!

 

[I7guy]

Well actually, you can get an enterprise certificate and bypass the App Store completely. It does cost more, but it's not hard to do.

https://developer.apple.com/programs/enterprise/how-it-works/

Yes, one can get an enterprise certificate and use it within the terms of service. Else Apple could invalidate your enterprise certificate.

 

[mannyvel]

Can I load apps from other app stores? Download and install from the internet? No. Not without jailbreaking and violating user agreement. Thus it’s a monopoly.

Just because you don't know how to do it doesn't mean it's not possible.

 

[StyxMaker]

"Competing stores". LOL. Back in the days of Pocket PC's, late 90s early 2000s, there were many stores, like Handango and Brighthand. And vendors could sell direct too. And it was a HUGE PITA. Some used codes, some used activation servers, some used pre-activated apps you had to download. It was all over the map how they handled the purchasing and activation of apps. And if you needed to update your apps - good luck with that. Again. everyone had a different method - if you could even get to the updates for old purchasers.

People who complain about what is essentially the convenience of a single Apple store never had to go though all that bullcr@p us old-timers had to.

I mostly dealt with Handango and paid an average of $30.00 for apps. The only thing I liked about those stores was the existence of trail periods before you paid.

 

[MadeTheSwitch]

Just because you don't know how to do it doesn't mean it's not possible.

LOL, explain how a regular user can do it without violating their user agreement, jail breaking phone, or paying extra to become a developer?
[doublepost=1557802904][/doublepost]

You are actually not imprisoned.

Said mall has great interiors and amenities but only one department store. You can enter or leave at any time. There's also another mall on the other block that has several stores. You can choose which of the two you go to (or none at all).

Would you go to your local mall and *demand*, not ask, *demand* the owners to open a space for regular people to sell their stuff there? Of course not!

But the choice really isn’t there, even with two malls when they both have similar policies and ban similar apps. Adult website apps are good examples of that for instance. So, you either just have to do without in the Apple world, or risk sideloading app from another place in the Android world. Neither are good solutions.

 

[warp9]

Apple could literally remove all apps from the app store, charge $1,000 each for their own apps and it still wouldn't be a monopoly.

 

[I7guy]

...
But the choice really isn’t there, even with two malls when they both have similar policies and ban similar apps. Adult website apps are good examples of that for instance. So, you either just have to do without in the Apple world, or risk sideloading app from another place in the Android world. Neither are good solutions.

It's a better solution to load an unverified app from any old app store? Assuming that comes to pass?

 

[zaphon]

Apple could literally remove all apps from the app store, charge $1,000 each for their own apps and it still wouldn't be a monopoly.

I'm pretty sure you don't grasp what the term Monopoly means. Apple definitely has a monopoly on App Stores (and thus Apps) being installed on an iOS device. To say anything else is just fancy word smithing trying to argue your way around the facts.

 

[chaicka]

The people who think that Apple shouldn't be able to keep them from downloading apps to their phone from any source they want to will be the same people who will blame Apple when the app they downloaded from another site broke their phone, etc.

Deja Vu...Isn't that the early days of iPhone OS where many consumers who simply/blindly jailbreak and yet 'cry mother cry father' about iPhone unstable, iPhone hung, iPhone crash, etc?

I have no wish to go back to that era of smartphone. Those who likes this kind of ecosystem, go Android please and you don't even have to pay US$1000 for it cause there are plentiful of China makers now making good smartphone to compete with Samsung, plentiful of choices isn't it?

 

[patent10021]

I can't wait for all the people who want other stores to start receiving malware on their devices.

 

[chaicka]

Ehm... that's exactly the point. Apple is just taking 30% of margins, which is absurdly high.

Har???!!! ROFL...

Do you know that most things in your life (from food to daily necessities to gadgets other than Apple products to software in the form of CD/DVD) has a general 30% profit margin for the retailers (the place where you buy them) or a fixed fee+% margin?

Go sue every retailer in U.S. then...cause they caused you (consumer) to be paying more (30%) for what you buy from them. Oh wait...do you happen to have a family member or relative who works in these retailers? Great cause your bid to get the 30% margin vapourize = lose of jobs for your family member or relative.
[doublepost=1557808389][/doublepost]*sarcastic mode on*

• Let's sue Microsoft for they are monopoly on XBox games and if they open up alternative Store, XBox games will be cheaper.
• Let's sue Sony for they are monopoly on PlayStation games and if they open up alternative Store, PlayStation games will be cheaper.
• Let's sue Ninetendo for they are monopoly on Switch games and if they open up alternative Store, Switch games will be cheaper.

[doublepost=1557808954][/doublepost]

Should it be legal?

Hmmm...Is Cisco IOS not a closed system? And how many more platforms/appliances out there which is not closed system?

Sue them all?

 

[developer13245]

I can't wait for all the people who want other stores to start receiving malware on their devices.

Like the malware that infected millions of iPhones with apps created (in China - funny) using a hacked version of Xcode?

 

[chaicka]

Let them open it up and some one will put out malware within a few weeks.

A techie person might be ok but a non-techie person like my mother-in-law will be side loading malware like there is no tomorrow. She bricked her last two Android phones. She’s on an iPhone SE now with no issues.

A real world case. My dad (>60 years old) had a stroke recently (just 6-8 weeks ago) and was hospitalized. He used WhatsApp on his Android phone to call and message his sons (me and my brother). Guess what? None of us received the calls and messages. And when we finally got notified through other means and visited him, we tested on the spot WhatsApp on his Android phone. It does not call out nor message sent. In fact, it behaves so odd and weirdly where messages only get sent to specific persons/groups, nothing else. It's like a forked WhatsApp-lookalike and was suggested to him by his foreign friend.

That's it. That's the last straw to insist he uses only iPhone going forward. I have no wish to one day have a shock that my dad pass away while having no means to reach anyone or any of his family members.

Not everyone is as savvy as some posters here. I and my family and people around me buy into Apple ecosystem for how it is build, for how Apple does the work for us. In short, even I am in IT industry for more than 2 decades, I have no wish to be the tech support, the go-to tech person for my family, relatives, friends cause I had enough doing so at work. I just want peaceful time outside of work hours where things simply works and are sufficiently audited, curated, whatever processes to get those safe apps and platform to general consumers.

 

[developer13245]

Yes, if you want to stick with the Apple store nothing will force you to use an alternate.

 

[TimFL1]

You do realise that you mentioned two competing platforms where one currently challenges the other by claiming that the established 70/30 split is unfair?

I totally agree that Apple deserves a cut for its services but 30 percent just doesn’t seem reasonable anymore (especially not for IAPs where the only thing they do is handling the payment). The Epic Store keeps 12 percent for mainly the same services as the App Store and with the cost curves of data storage and payment processing fees coming down I could imagine that Epic still makes a fair amount of money with their store.

What a nonsense post. Not surprised the thing you get caught up and try to challenge is the inclusion of Epic Store in my list (was wondering how long it takes for that).

First off, you can‘t seriously go ahead and say Apple doesn‘t deserve their cut or put them on par with a store that has 30 games and is available in like what, 5 countries + a feature set you can count with the fingers in your right hand. The App Store is a vibrant ecosystem that comes with several big features for developers, including a worldwide CDN for fast app binary delivery, a global notification system, tools, support and QA teams, unified payment handling and loads more.
Just like Steam they offer a gigantic feature packed ecosystem that naturally requires upkeep, so 30% sounds fair. If Epic weren‘t late to the game they wouldn‘t moneyhat every game they can get their hands on to stay relevant, they‘d probably also have a 30% cut.