Surface Devices

[kazmac]

Given their two year updates, I would agree with @SDColorado and @Queen6 on October for the SB3.

I want a new nib design for the Surface Pen, if it’s more the S Pen and the Apple Pencil, great.

I am still thinking about the Surfaces, and now that I am actively weening myself off Procreate*, I have more options as far as what I need for a system, especially since video conversion is not a key component of my creative flow any more.

Just wondering what to try that works in tablet mode, and/or has the horsepower to run a graphics tablet and software. I’d rather wait on the SB3, and being more familiar with W10 before I try another Surface Book.

*Since I am teaching myself to use cross platform art software, I can and will learn Windows 10.

 

[Queen6]

Given their two year updates, I would agree with @SDColorado and @Queen6 on October for the SB3.

I want a new nib design for the Surface Pen, if it’s more the S Pen and the Apple Pencil, great.

I am still thinking about the Surfaces, and now that I am actively weening myself off Procreate*, I have more options as far as what I need for a system, especially since video conversion is not a key component of my creative flow any more.

Just wondering what to try that works in tablet mode, and/or has the horsepower to run a graphics tablet and software. I’d rather wait on the SB3, and being more familiar with W10 before I try another Surface Book.

*Since I am teaching myself to use cross platform art software, I can and will learn Windows 10.

Affinity all the way, cant draw to save my life, but can certainly manipulate imagery Just up'd my Switch 5 to 384Gb thx to a fast Samsung microSDXC card, try doing that with a modern Mac without DongleVision

nb. Brought to you via a very decent 18 year old scotch, a great deal of Tsingtao and David Bowie's Cracked Actor off Aladdin Sane

Q-6

 

[SDColorado]

Given their two year updates, I would agree with @SDColorado and @Queen6 on October for the SB3.

I want a new nib design for the Surface Pen, if it’s more the S Pen and the Apple Pencil, great.

I am still thinking about the Surfaces, and now that I am actively weening myself off Procreate*, I have more options as far as what I need for a system, especially since video conversion is not a key component of my creative flow any more.

Just wondering what to try that works in tablet mode, and/or has the horsepower to run a graphics tablet and software. I’d rather wait on the SB3, and being more familiar with W10 before I try another Surface Book.

*Since I am teaching myself to use cross platform art software, I can and will learn Windows 10.

The only rumors I have seen so far regarding a pen nib design have been in regard to a patent filed in 2016 for a solar-powered stylus in which the pen gets power from a collecting mechanism at the tip.

Also a patent for a magnetic USB-C connector. Something Apple probably should have been to market with first, when they decided nobody would ever need any other kind of port again.

Some other rumors about the Surface Book 3 here. But keep in mind that rumors are just that and we may see more, all, some or none of that

 

[Queen6]

Just picked up a Surface Precision Perfect fit for the hand, absolutely exudes quality tremendous productivity based Mouse. I've got an Alienware mouse for my inner gamer ROG mouse was a software disaster Got a feeling the MS Precision will show both a clean set of heels as Microsoft has always produced a top notch mouse.

Has a little more drag than the Alienware AW959, button clicks are absolutely unformal, I'll give it a shot on F.E.A.R. max difficulty, that's some aggressive AI to say the very least

Q-6

 

[SDColorado]

Has a little more drag than the Alienware AW959, button clicks are absolutely unformal, I'll give it a shot on F.E.A.R. max difficulty, that's some aggressive AI to say the very least

Q-6

I have obviously fallen way behind in gaming. I haven't a clue what F.E.A.R stands for

 

[Queen6]

I have obviously fallen way behind in gaming. I haven't a clue what F.E.A.R stands for

I'm a very casual gamer, equally MIT got into F.E.A.R's AI as it will hunt you down. Some games are genuinely difficult F.E.A.R is different as the AI will actively look to take you down, no scripts here the AI is just doing it's own thing.

F.E.A.R is old by modern standards (2005), equally it will hand you your ass in quick time at the higher levels. Forget the graphics it's all about the gameplay AI will pin you down in a heartbeat, you've got to think tactically and make smart moves. AI is relentless and a real challenge a point well worth considering...

Available on GOG.com well recommended

Q-6

 

[kazmac]

Will certainly try Affinity Designer, if it allow me to draw raster only images ( I know it has vector and raster “personas”, but I’ve never used it. Raster is what most drawing apps use. Time to crack open that Designer work book I bought last year).

I am also wondering what starter computer to go with? Try another Surface Pro despite the intel graphics? Risk an HP Spectre despite being spooked by the customer service forum (a new 15.6 is due in March)? Or just get the cheapest Wacom Cintiq which -I think- is W10 compatible?

Obviously, the laptop/Cintiq has to have pen / art capabilities and a graphics card robust enough for that. Video not a necessity on this machine, since I doubt I will do more than the odd conversion here or there. I’ll have watch more of Lisa Gade’s videos to see what she says about that.

My family got me MS gift cards, not Best Buy (who gave them all kinds of trouble apparently). For the best, really. No matter what I pick up at MS another SP etc, I will include the complete warranty. Definitely not another Arc mouse though.

Another year, another attempt.

@SDColorado thanks for the Surface rumor links.

 

[kazmac]

Lenovo just announced a Surface Studio alternative, the Yoga a940.

https://m.windowscentral.com/lenovo-yoga-a940-cheaper-surface-studio

It has a desktop cpu inside, not sure about the pen* and some other things though.

*Uses the first gen Lenovo active Pen, not the new gen 2, so it’s not as pressure sensitive. Oh well.

 

[SDColorado]

Lenovo just announced a Surface Studio alternative, the Yoga a940.

https://m.windowscentral.com/lenovo-yoga-a940-cheaper-surface-studio

It has a desktop cpu inside, not sure about the pen* and some other things though.

*Uses the first gen Lenovo active Pen, not the new gen 2, so it’s not as pressure sensitive. Oh well.

Here is another link to the Yoga A940

 

[kazmac]

Here is another link to the Yoga A940

Thanks. It is compelling...but it trips up with the Yoga active pen. It has about 1/3rd the pressure sensitivity of the Surface Pen and the Apple Pencil and a lot less than most Wacom / Wacom competitor pens.

Nice to see someone else try their take on a Surface Studio though.

 

[SDColorado]

Thanks. It is compelling...but it trips up with the Yoga active pen. It has about 1/3rd the pressure sensitivity of the Surface Pen and the Apple Pencil and a lot less than most Wacom / Wacom competitor pens.

Nice to see someone else try their take on a Surface Studio though.

I am not too sure about the fixed dial on the side either. The beauty of the Surface Dial is that you can place it anywhere on the display, it isn't a fixed asset in one location only.

But we need to see more 2-1 desktops that don't follow the Dell and others format of slow spinner hdd's and sub-par specs.

 

[h9826790]

Just get the Surface Studio 2 today (top model).

The cooling is a little bit better than expect. But I still fine tune it a bit to give the computer more thermal buffer.

May be I am lucky, I can easily down volt the CPU with -170mV offset but still perfectly stable in OCCT, Intel XTU, and Prime95. Which make the CPU can pretty much always stay above 3.5GHz, and rarely go over 80C in most high demand task. And never able to touch 90C even in artificial stress test.

The GTX1070 is easy to down volt as well. I am not looking for extreme performance at this moment. I buy the Studio 2 for graphics more than video work, and occasionally gaming. Doesn't need the extra performance from the boost clock. So, I keep the GPU at 800mV and 1645MHz.

The result is pretty good. Both CPU and GPU can stay below 75C most of the time (room temperature ~23C). Even in SuperPostion Benchmark, the 1070 only just touch 74C (CPU is roughly at the same temperature) with acceptable fan noise.

So far, quite happy with this computer. The first time I own a pen and dial. Pretty easy to use indeed.

Updated 1:

Tried some gaming on it. As expected. Decent performance. No throttling or overheat etc after down volt.

Update 2:

Some real world usage. I have to convert a very old 720x204 AVI video into H264 format. So, use the GTX1070's hardware encoder to do a 2-pass H264 encode. ~900FPS, very nice speed (and quality). Both CPU and GPU hover at around 63C during encoding.

 

[xraydoc]

^^ Very jealous.
Would love a Studio 2 on my desk!

 

[kazmac]

^^ Very jealous.
Would love a Studio 2 on my desk!

Me three! Enjoy it.

Speaking of Surface, was back at the MS store this morning.

Debating between a SB2 13, or the gem cut 13” HP Spectre (what is it with me and Spectre?) that would be a grand cheaper - but is a big question mark.

It’s all down to price now. Keyboard and screen are very close...MS allows trade ins for any machine you buy at the store and I could get PerformanceGuard protection for the HP. Still means it will be shipped out rather than a replacement for a Surface Product.

Do I need more than 8gb, 256 and the better graphics card to start though?

I’ll have to see what the $650 Wacom cintiq that was just released needs as far as graphics cards.

No Asus, except for a couple of older RoGs on display.

 

[SDColorado]

(what is it with me and Spectre?)

You are a fan of James Bond films? Just remember that it stands for SPecial Executive for Counterintelligence, Terrorism, Revenge and Extortion .

What is the out of warranty options for HP should it fail beyond its warranty period? MS actually has reasonable out of warranty replacement costs.

 

[kazmac]

You are a fan of James Bond films? Just remember that it stands for SPecial Executive for Counterintelligence, Terrorism, Revenge and Extortion .

What is the out of warranty options for HP should it fail beyond its warranty period? MS actually has reasonable out of warranty replacement costs.

LOL!

Yes, I like Bond and laughed when Spectre were featured heavily in from Russia with Love the other day. I thought of the laptops when I heard the organization’s name (No, I haven’t seen Spectre yet). However, if someone calls their laptop S.M.E.R.S.H. I am not buying it no matter how nice it looks.

My connection to Spectre is more of a comic book thing: Moon Knight a.k.a. Marc Spector is still a favorite character of mine. If they made a white gem cut Spectre, I’d buy it outright.

Researching the out of warranty info.

 

[SDColorado]

S.M.E.R.S.H seems like something Sony would do. The Sony S.M.E.R.S.H hahaha. KAOS would be another good one if you are a Get Smart fan

In light of the Intel Spectre flaw, I wonder if HP regrets the name? Maybe they could name a computer Meltdown as well as an homage to Intel

 

[kazmac]

S.M.E.R.S.H seems like something Sony would do. The Sony S.M.E.R.S.H hahaha. KAOS would be another good one if you are a Get Smart fan

In light of the Intel Spectre flaw, I wonder if HP regrets the name? Maybe they could name a computer Meltdown as well as an homage to Intel

LOL you win this thread!

I completely spaced on the Intel Spectre flaw. Considering how hot HPs usually run (although this 13” has a new cooling system according to HP -and Lisa Gade-), Meltdown could be an unofficial nickname for some models.

 

[Dave245]

An update after using my Surface Pro 6 for months now (since November of 2018).

I think the Surface is ok/good, it’s definitely better than previous Windows machines I’ve used pre 2011. However what let’s it down the most in my opinion is tablet mode, there not enough apps (even YouTube doesn’t have an app) and when watching Netflix or iTunes in tablet mode it lags and freezes.

As a computer to type on it’s good, although I find the trackpad more annoying than I thought I would. Windows Hello is great and works really well first time (although I’m not sure how secure and private it is).

This is completely personal, but I find myself using my iPad for tablet things (does anyone else do this?) and I find it disappointing considering the Surface Pro is a 2 in one, with using my iPad Pro as well it makes me wonder why I didn’t just buy a laptop in the first place.

Windows is annoying in that it’s not as refined as MacOS and no where near as good looking (especially dark mode). Updates keep happening and wanting to scan for viruses (something I didn’t notice on the Mac).

Also I find that my Surface can freeze when using a webpage or just scrolling, only for a couple of seconds but still something that never happened on my Mac.

I will be keeping my Surface Pro around at least until I see what Apples offerings will be for the Mac this year. If nothing else I will keep it for my game machine.

Has anyone else thought the same or experienced the same issues?

 

[OdT22]

<snip> it makes me wonder why I didn’t just buy a laptop in the first place.

Windows is annoying in that it’s not as refined as MacOS and no where near as good looking (especially dark mode). Updates keep happening and wanting to scan for viruses (something I didn’t notice on the Mac).

Also I find that my Surface can freeze when using a webpage or just scrolling, only for a couple of seconds but still something that never happened on my Mac.

I will be keeping my Surface Pro around at least until I see what Apples offerings will be for the Mac this year. If nothing else I will keep it for my game machine.

Has anyone else thought the same or experienced the same issues?

Yes. The 2in1 concept didn't work for me, nor did the iPads for that matter. The laptop is the all-in-one solution, for my purposes. Coupled with a (any) smartphone, seems to give me the most trouble-free and unlimited daily workflow while away from work, (where we rely heavily on very outdated PCs that I couldn't begin to tell you the brands or specs on, ...all are at least 4 years old and still flying along like they are supposed to).

I switched from the SP5, to the Surface Laptop 2 after 2 months of trial, for similar reasons in your post above. It was a very cool device, but less of a tablet than an iPad, and not quite the solid laptop platform that I can be productive with as I have during decades prior. But then, I don't download apps unless I have to. So that whole aspect/concept of an app store or needing to download an app to use Youtube.com, Amazon.com, and such is still lost on me. On my phone? Okay sure. On a computer? That's the browser's job! (I know, I'm old, and stubborn)

Which laptop (brand/make/model) and which OS (Windows or Mac) remains unimportant to me. So I just go for value first, and preference secondly. Having a badassed state of the art laptop does have some appeal to me, but without the reliability or durability of a desktop, I prefer to risk less $ on portable computers, which is exactly why I tried to make the iPad work during recent years. They used to be the more affordable option, but the operating system never matured. Now the prices are higher, making the laptop the evident solution, again.

I live in the browser, MS Office, email, and accounting software. So whatever does all those the most smoothly & reliably, gets my money.

 

[Dave245]

Yes. The 2in1 concept didn't work for me, nor did the iPads for that matter. The laptop is the all-in-one solution, for my purposes. Coupled with a (any) smartphone, seems to give me the most trouble-free and unlimited daily workflow while away from work, (where we rely heavily on very outdated PCs that I couldn't begin to tell you the brands or specs on, ...all are at least 4 years old and still flying along like they are supposed to).

I switched from the SP5, to the Surface Laptop 2 after 2 months of trial, for similar reasons in your post above. It was a very cool device, but less of a tablet than an iPad, and not quite the solid laptop platform that I can be productive with as I have during decades prior. But then, I don't download apps unless I have to. So that whole aspect/concept of an app store or needing to download an app to use Youtube.com, Amazon.com, and such is still lost on me. On my phone? Okay sure. On a computer? That's the browser's job! (I know, I'm old, and stubborn)

Which laptop (brand/make/model) and which OS (Windows or Mac) remains unimportant to me. So I just go for value first, and preference secondly. Having a badassed state of the art laptop does have some appeal to me, but without the reliability or durability of a desktop, I prefer to risk less $ on portable computers, which is exactly why I tried to make the iPad work during recent years. They used to be the more affordable option, but the operating system never matured. Now the prices are higher, making the laptop the evident solution, again.

I live in the browser, MS Office, email, and accounting software. So whatever does all those the most smoothly & reliably, gets my money.

I’ve been using my iPad Pro for the tablet things, watching Netflix, iTunes content and YouTube because the Surface Pro just doesn’t cut it as a tablet. I do use the Surface Pro for blog writing and so on, the Alcantara keyboard is nice and better than Apple’s iPad Pro keyboard.

I’m use to using a tablet, I’ve had a number of different iPads over the years, I really wanted the Surface Pro 6 to live up to the expectation of replacing my laptop (ie Mac) and my tablet, it hasn’t worked out that way tho. The thing I do like is using is the Surface Pen for writing on the screen, it’s not as good as the Apple Pencil for drawing but it can hold it’s own when writing and so on.

I don’t regret getting the Surface Pro 6, I have been able to try it and if I don’t sell it I shall keep it as a machine to play the Windows based games that I won’t be able to play on the Mac.

 

[Queen6]

An update after using my Surface Pro 6 for months now (since November of 2018).

I think the Surface is ok/good, it’s definitely better than previous Windows machines I’ve used pre 2011. However what let’s it down the most in my opinion is tablet mode, there not enough apps (even YouTube doesn’t have an app) and when watching Netflix or iTunes in tablet mode it lags and freezes.

As a computer to type on it’s good, although I find the trackpad more annoying than I thought I would. Windows Hello is great and works really well first time (although I’m not sure how secure and private it is).

This is completely personal, but I find myself using my iPad for tablet things (does anyone else do this?) and I find it disappointing considering the Surface Pro is a 2 in one, with using my iPad Pro as well it makes me wonder why I didn’t just buy a laptop in the first place.

Windows is annoying in that it’s not as refined as MacOS and no where near as good looking (especially dark mode). Updates keep happening and wanting to scan for viruses (something I didn’t notice on the Mac).

Also I find that my Surface can freeze when using a webpage or just scrolling, only for a couple of seconds but still something that never happened on my Mac.

I will be keeping my Surface Pro around at least until I see what Apples offerings will be for the Mac this year. If nothing else I will keep it for my game machine.

Has anyone else thought the same or experienced the same issues?

You might want to consider a reset. I have an Acer i3 Switch 5 (SP clone) I bought to throw in my bag while I'm out and about in the field visiting the contractors sites, it exabits non of these tendencies. I did consider a SP6 however the Switch 5 was dirt cheap ($650 with KB & Pen) and potential for loss damage is high.

Q-6

 

[kazmac]

An update after using my Surface Pro 6 for months now (since November of 2018).

I think the Surface is ok/good, it’s definitely better than previous Windows machines I’ve used pre 2011. However what let’s it down the most in my opinion is tablet mode, there not enough apps (even YouTube doesn’t have an app) and when watching Netflix or iTunes in tablet mode it lags and freezes.

As a computer to type on it’s good, although I find the trackpad more annoying than I thought I would. Windows Hello is great and works really well first time (although I’m not sure how secure and private it is).

This is completely personal, but I find myself using my iPad for tablet things (does anyone else do this?) and I find it disappointing considering the Surface Pro is a 2 in one, with using my iPad Pro as well it makes me wonder why I didn’t just buy a laptop in the first place.

Windows is annoying in that it’s not as refined as MacOS and no where near as good looking (especially dark mode). Updates keep happening and wanting to scan for viruses (something I didn’t notice on the Mac).

Also I find that my Surface can freeze when using a webpage or just scrolling, only for a couple of seconds but still something that never happened on my Mac.

I will be keeping my Surface Pro around at least until I see what Apples offerings will be for the Mac this year. If nothing else I will keep it for my game machine.

Has anyone else thought the same or experienced the same issues?

So much of what you posted is my exact reason why I am not going to buy another Surface mobile device for awhile.

I had many of those issues for the day I used the SP6 (yes, I know, a day). I think Windows is better suited toward more laptop/computer type things.

Even after rebooting, every w10 laptop I tried at the MS store and Best Buy this morning had those stuttering issues, which blew my mind given the specs on the machines I tested. At this point, I am a big fan of some PC hardware, but not Windows.

EDIT: That said, I am still eager to learn Windows. I just realize I will have to keep my drawing separate (iPads for now, eventually a Wacom). 2-in-1’s are not a good choice for what I want to do.

 

[OdT22]

So much of what you posted is my exact reason why I am not going to buy another Surface mobile device for awhile.

I had many of those issues for the day I used the SP6 (yes, I know, a day). I think Windows is better suited toward more laptop/computer type things.

Even after rebooting, every w10 laptop I tried at the MS store and Best Buy this morning had those stuttering issues, which blew my mind given the specs on the machines I tested. At this point, I am a big fan of some PC hardware, but not Windows.

It really is amazing how many of todays ultra-popular mobile products will still freeze & stutter, when you can buy a no-name boring desktop machine and different brands of keyboards, monitors, mice, etc., plug them together and they will run like tops for years. Baffles me!

 

[Queen6]

So much of what you posted is my exact reason why I am not going to buy another Surface mobile device for awhile.

I had many of those issues for the day I used the SP6 (yes, I know, a day). I think Windows is better suited toward more laptop/computer type things.

Even after rebooting, every w10 laptop I tried at the MS store and Best Buy this morning had those stuttering issues, which blew my mind given the specs on the machines I tested. At this point, I am a big fan of some PC hardware, but not Windows.

As I've said there's likely some other issue. Problem with W10 is that it's very open nature requires the user to have a higher level of knowledge as anything can be installed which may or may not negatively effect the system. My systems range from a lowly i3 with intel integrated GPU to hex core i7 with Nvidia GTX 1070 non stutter, equally I took time to set them up, nor do I install any applications without some level of research. Most importantly they are always fully backed up.

IMO one of the biggest culprits is AV, I only use what comes with W10 and follow up with manual on demand scans by standalone applications (Emsisoft & Kaspersky) that don't hook into the OS. I'm also mindful of what running in the background. It's all a learning curve, equally a solid investment. I'm now far more productive on W10, equally it didn't happen overnight

Beauty of W10 is it's open nature and the vast software catalogue. Recently a colleague asked how I was completing technical reports so quickly, so I showed him. His response was "but your not using MS Office" I replied "exactly" It's all out there...

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