Surface Devices

[SteveJUAE]

I

The Mac doesn’t need touch or pen interface, it has the curser/point and click.

Because of Windows 10 and the terrible tablet mode, also because Apple brought some of their “Marzipan” apps to Mojave last year! I think they work well and I use News daily on my iMac. I hope we see more.

But that's the whole point the fluidity of IOS apps is dependent on it's interface all this is porting Appeletts over to give developers more options of revenue encouragement and Apple income

If you you think a full MS OS is a terrible tablet which has more user interface options than any Mac then there is no chance other than these little utilities that are already available on any good OS

This really is Apple trivia IMO

 

[Dave245]

But heres the thing. People still would have bought it, ALOT of people. It's not like they couldn't have optimized it over time. Using a surface, I would still say Windows 10 isn't a good experience really but it still works. One could argue even iOS isn't really a good experience for a large tablet touchscreen. It's great as a phone screen size but really isn't optimized at all for a large tablet touch screen

I can only say what Apple said at the time, it was during this interview

 

[SDColorado]

But heres the thing. People still would have bought it, ALOT of people. It's not like they couldn't have optimized it over time. Using a surface, I would still say Windows 10 isn't a good experience really but it still works. One could argue even iOS isn't really a good experience for a large tablet touchscreen. It's great as a phone screen size but really isn't optimized at all for a large tablet touch screen

It really isn't a great experience. They sell you a lousy keyboard you can add, but with no trackpad/mouse support, it isn't any different than adding touch/pen support to the Macs, except it also has none of the benefits of a fullOS. We all have our own opinions about the iPad Pro, but in my own option, it is a really fast, but flawed and crippled device due to Apple stubbornness in some aspects of design and function.
[doublepost=1550072779][/doublepost]

I can only say what Apple said at the time, it was during this interview

To that I would say... "Who wants a stylus?" Jobs said while introducing the iPhone. "You have to get 'em, put 'em away, you lose 'em. Yuck! Nobody wants a stylus. So let's not use a stylus."

Yet here we are today with the Apple Pencil... just don't call it a stylus )

Edit: He also said he would never allow PC users to sync phones and iPods over "his dead body" (which was allowed long before his death) and nobody wanted a bigger phone or a bigger iPad at various points. Saying of larger phones "You can't get your hand around it," Jobs said. "No one's going to buy that."

 

[SteveJUAE]

It really isn't a great experience. They sell you a lousy keyboard you can add, but with no trackpad/mouse support, it isn't any different than adding touch/pen support to the Macs, except it also has none of the benefits of a fullOS. We all have our own opinions about the iPad Pro, but in my own option, it is a really fast, but flawed and crippled device due to Apple stubbornness in some aspects of design and function.
[doublepost=1550072779][/doublepost]


To that I would say...

View attachment 821622

Yet here we are today with the Apple Pencil... just don't call it a stylus )

There whole premise to their comments on touch for a full OS is simply based on a conventional clam shell design now stick a 180 or 360 hinge let alone a detachable screen and as ever it's not what they say its what they don't

As I said before IPP is the smartest dumb thing out there

 

[SDColorado]

There whole premise to their comments on touch for a full OS is simply based on a conventional clam shell design now stick a 180 or 360 hinge let alone a detachable screen and as ever it's not what they say its what they don't

As I said before IPP is the smartest dumb thing out there

Oversized phone with the hated stylus, that you absolutely can't get your hand around and can't place a phone call

 

[Dave245]

To that I would say... "Who wants a stylus?" Jobs said while introducing the iPhone. "You have to get 'em, put 'em away, you lose 'em. Yuck! Nobody wants a stylus. So let's not use a stylus."

View attachment 821622

Yet here we are today with the Apple Pencil... just don't call it a stylus )

Edit: He also said he would never allow PC users to sync phones and iPods over "his dead body" (which was allowed long before his death) and nobody wanted a bigger phone or a bigger iPad at various points. Saying of larger phones "You can't get your hand around it," Jobs said. "No one's going to buy that."

Jobs was talking about the iPhone, the Apple Pencil works on the iPad. I don’t think Apple will do touch on the Mac, more I hope they don’t as well. But who knows maybe they will change their minds.

Jobs said a lot of things, it was other people who would change his mind.

The Touch Bar is probably Apple’s version of touch for the MacBook Pro. I’d rather that than a full touch screen panel on an iMac or MacBook.

 

[SDColorado]

Much was changed after Jobs death and the firing of Forestall, because the powers that be had other ideas in mind.

Touchbar was a terrible idea and I think even Apple is smart enough to realize that, thus the lack of inclusion on the Air. At least in its current form, it is a design failure. If that is their "version of a touch screen" then Apple is really out of touch. Everything is going to touch screens from appliances, to home thermostats, to security systems to automobile infotainment systems.

Edit: Not to mention self-checkout in grocery stores. I am not sure how it is in the UK, but here you can barely find a live human cashier at checkout, it is all touch screen self-check. Restaurants are going this route too, self-order via a touchscreen. Even found a brewery that uses touch screen taps and charges by the ounce.

 

[Dave245]

Much was changed after Jobs death and the firing of Forestall, because the powers that be had other ideas in mind.

Touchbar was a terrible idea and I think even Apple is smart enough to realize that, thus the lack of inclusion on the Air. At least in its current form, it is a design failure. If that is their "version of a touch screen" then Apple is really out of touch. Everything is going to touch screens from appliances, to home thermostats, to security systems to automobile infotainment systems.

Edit: Not to mention self-checkout in grocery stores. I am not sure how it is in the UK, but here you can barely find a live human at checkout, it is all touch screen self-check.

Forstall messed up maps and his attitude got him fired, while Jobs was around he kept Forstall in check, he knew how to manage him.

The Touch Bar wasn’t added to the new Air because it isn’t a Pro machine and would of bumped up the cost by a few hundred £/$

It’s actually handy for video editing, one of my best friends edits video for a living and he love it, he says it saves him time which for video editors time = money (just like most people in creative fields). I have tried it in store and on his 2016 MacBook Pro, I’m torn on it, half of me thinks it’s a good idea the other half doesn’t.

I think the next step is the keyboard becoming the whole touch area, kind of like the Touch Bar.

Those devices you are talking about are not computers that you sit at and work with. The personal computer, as in a laptop or desktop is not good with touch, reaching up to touch the screen on a MacBook or iMac would just not be good in my opinion. Even when using the Surface Pro 6 i use the trackpad and not the touch screen, yes I’ve detached it and used the pen to write on as a paper replacement, but I don’t like it when it’s attached to the keyboard and in desktop mode, reaching up to tap something when I can just use a trackpad or mouse is just a no go for me.

 

[SDColorado]

Forstall messed up maps and his attitude got him fired, while Jobs was around he kept Forstall in check, he knew how to manage him.

The Touch Bar wasn’t added to the new Air because it isn’t a Pro machine and would of bumped up the cost by a few hundred £/$

It’s actually handy for video editing, one of my best friends edits video for a living and he love it, he says it saves him time which for video editors time = money (just like most people in creative fields). I have tried it in store and on his 2016 MacBook Pro, I’m torn on it, half of me thinks it’s a good idea the other half doesn’t.

I think the next step is the keyboard becoming the whole touch area, kind of like the Touch Bar.

Those devices you are talking about are not computers that you sit at and work with. The personal computer, as in a laptop or desktop is not good with touch, reaching up to touch the screen on a MacBook or iMac would just not be good in my opinion. Even when using the Surface Pro 6 i use the trackpad and not the touch screen, yes I’ve detached it and used the pen to write on as a paper replacement, but I don’t like it when it’s attached to the keyboard and in desktop mode, reaching up to tap something when I can just use a trackpad or mouse is just a no go for me.

You know that isn't really true regarding the Touchbar right? How much do you think it *really* would have cost Apple to add the touchbar to the air? $10? $20? forget what they charge the consumer.

Not to mention, the touchbar is not a "pro" device, it is a consumer device. It would have been better suited on the Air and MacBook and left off the MacBook Pro. The touchbar is akin to taking the manual controls off the Canon 5D Mk IV and saying they did that because the 5D Mk IV is a professional device while the Rebel is not. Yeah.....

Laptops are just fine with touch. I liked it on the Lenovo X1E, I liked it on the Surface Book 2, both laptops were better served with physical function keys and touchscreen than they were by a gimmick like the touchbar. I like it on my Surfade Pro with or without the keyboard attached.

I use the touchscreen with the Surface Pro frequently, FAR more than I have used the touchbar on the MaBook Pro dating back to 2016. Reaching up to tap something that is already the focus of your eyes, makes far more sense than reaching up to tap something that isn't even in an intuitive position on the keyboard. Even Asus has a better idea with the touchpad/trackpad combo.

For crying out loud, Apple couldn't even give haptic feedback to it without having to purchase a third party utility like Haptic Touch Bar? Not to mention the only real functionality it offers is through third-party utilities like Better Touch Tool. Apple released it with a great amount of fanfare "A Touch of Genius" they called it. Now it is barely a sidenote. They have done nothing whatsoever to improve upon it since its release.

I know we are never going to see eye to eye on it, but I give Apple a D- on the touchbar. It has some very minimal functionality at the expense of the physical function keys and was always a gimmick to say "We have a better idea" when touchscreens began to appear.

 

[eltoslightfoot]

You know that isn't really true regarding the Touchbar right? How much do you think it *really* would have cost Apple to add the touchbar to the air? $10? $20? forget what they charge the consumer.

Not to mention, the touchbar is not a "pro" device, it is a consumer device. It would have been better suited on the Air and MacBook and left off the MacBook Pro. The touchbar is akin to taking the manual controls off the Canon 5D Mk IV and saying they did that because the 5D Mk IV is a professional device while the Rebel is not. Yeah.....

Laptops are just fine with touch. I liked it on the Lenovo X1E, I liked it on the Surface Book 2, both laptops were better served with physical function keys and touchscreen than they were by a gimmick like the touchbar. I like it on my Surfade Pro with or without the keyboard attached.

I use the touchscreen with the Surface Pro frequently, FAR more than I have used the touchbar on the MaBook Pro dating back to 2016. Reaching up to tap something that is already the focus of your eyes, makes far more sense than reaching up to tap something that isn't even in an intuitive position on the keyboard. Even Asus has a better idea with the touchpad/trackpad combo.

For crying out loud, Apple couldn't even give haptic feedback to it without having to purchase a third party utility like Haptic Touch Bar? Not to mention the only real functionality it offers is through third-party utilities like Better Touch Tool. Apple released it with a great amount of fanfare "A Touch of Genius" they called it. Now it is barely a sidenote. They have done nothing whatsoever to improve upon it since its release.

I know we are never going to see eye to eye on it, but I give Apple a D- on the touchbar. It has some very minimal functionality at the expense of the physical function keys and was always a gimmick to say "We have a better idea" when touchscreens began to appear.

This. I have watched MS sloooooooowly get better and better at the surface pro game. I would say at this point that the surface pro line is as good at being a tablet as the iPad Pro is at being a laptop. Apple could easily be in the same spot with a touchscreen mac as MS is with the surface pro after years of iterating. They chose to completely concede the 2 in 1 market to MS and other Win manufacturers. I don't have to like it, but there it is. We have been clamoring for a 2 in 1 mac forever. They won't do it.

 

[SteveJUAE]

You know that isn't really true regarding the Touchbar right? How much do you think it *really* would have cost Apple to add the touchbar to the air? $10? $20? forget what they charge the consumer.

Not to mention, the touchbar is not a "pro" device, it is a consumer device. It would have been better suited on the Air and MacBook and left off the MacBook Pro. The touchbar is akin to taking the manual controls off the Canon 5D Mk IV and saying they did that because the 5D Mk IV is a professional device while the Rebel is not. Yeah.....

Laptops are just fine with touch. I liked it on the Lenovo X1E, I liked it on the Surface Book 2, both laptops were better served with physical function keys and touchscreen than they were by a gimmick like the touchbar. I like it on my Surfade Pro with or without the keyboard attached.

I use the touchscreen with the Surface Pro frequently, FAR more than I have used the touchbar on the MaBook Pro dating back to 2016. Reaching up to tap something that is already the focus of your eyes, makes far more sense than reaching up to tap something that isn't even in an intuitive position on the keyboard. Even Asus has a better idea with the touchpad/trackpad combo.

For crying out loud, Apple couldn't even give haptic feedback to it without having to purchase a third party utility like Haptic Touch Bar? Not to mention the only real functionality it offers is through third-party utilities like Better Touch Tool. Apple released it with a great amount of fanfare "A Touch of Genius" they called it. Now it is barely a sidenote. They have done nothing whatsoever to improve upon it since its release.

I know we are never going to see eye to eye on it, but I give Apple a D- on the touchbar. It has some very minimal functionality at the expense of the physical function keys and was always a gimmick to say "We have a better idea" when touchscreens began to appear.

I like the way it's acceptable all be it compulsory to touch your IPP screen when docked to its KB but the shock and horror should you do it on a touch enabled laptop/2 in 1

It's funny how touch creeps up on you after a while and you only realize when you go to a non touch device how much you have naturally evolved in selecting the easiest and best mix of interface options. Apple never been good on multiple choice and denying their user of options is typical of them.

 

[Dave245]

You know that isn't really true regarding the Touchbar right? How much do you think it *really* would have cost Apple to add the touchbar to the air? $10? $20? forget what they charge the consumer.

Not to mention, the touchbar is not a "pro" device, it is a consumer device. It would have been better suited on the Air and MacBook and left off the MacBook Pro. The touchbar is akin to taking the manual controls off the Canon 5D Mk IV and saying they did that because the 5D Mk IV is a professional device while the Rebel is not. Yeah.....

Laptops are just fine with touch. I liked it on the Lenovo X1E, I liked it on the Surface Book 2, both laptops were better served with physical function keys and touchscreen than they were by a gimmick like the touchbar. I like it on my Surfade Pro with or without the keyboard attached.

I use the touchscreen with the Surface Pro frequently, FAR more than I have used the touchbar on the MaBook Pro dating back to 2016. Reaching up to tap something that is already the focus of your eyes, makes far more sense than reaching up to tap something that isn't even in an intuitive position on the keyboard. Even Asus has a better idea with the touchpad/trackpad combo.

For crying out loud, Apple couldn't even give haptic feedback to it without having to purchase a third party utility like Haptic Touch Bar? Not to mention the only real functionality it offers is through third-party utilities like Better Touch Tool. Apple released it with a great amount of fanfare "A Touch of Genius" they called it. Now it is barely a sidenote. They have done nothing whatsoever to improve upon it since its release.

I know we are never going to see eye to eye on it, but I give Apple a D- on the touchbar. It has some very minimal functionality at the expense of the physical function keys and was always a gimmick to say "We have a better idea" when touchscreens began to appear.

I have to agree to politely agree to dissagree, the Touch Bar is a Pro tool, that’s not to say that general consumers can’t use it, just that it’s better used in apps like Final Cut Pro X.

I don’t know how much it actually costs Apple for the Touch Bar, but they would of added a couple more hundred £/$ to the price of the Air for the Touch Bar. I think it should be an optional extra when buying the MacBook Pro.

Laptops are terrible with touch, not only do you get fingerprints on the screen but it just feels wrong, in my opinion. Touchscreen is great on a tablet but not on a computer that I have to sit at and work with.

Maybe they will add haptic feedback to it and push it forward. It’s still promoted on the website, granted it’s lower down on the MacBook Pro section. Also it was updated slightly at last years WWDC:

New tooling for developers to create better UI interactions.

The interface builder in Xcode also handles the Touch Bar design experience now which gives developers more control.

Source Link - https://insights.dice.com/2018/06/07/wwdc-2018-macbook-touch-bar-lurking/

Steve Troughton Smith on Twitter suggested that the “Marzipan apps coming next year will have tooling to allow developers access to the Touch Bar also that they can place buttons and other items”

Time will tell I guess

 

[SteveJUAE]

I have to agree to politely agree to dissagree, the Touch Bar is a Pro tool, that’s not to say that general consumers can’t use it, just that it’s better used in apps like Final Cut Pro X

Sorry Dave I do not believe the numbers support that given the number of Pro's using MBP by Apples own metrics is a small % and the number of FCP Pro users being even smaller you expect us to believe Apple added the TB for this fraction of a fraction Pro group on a general consumer device all be it a premium one

 

[SDColorado]

I have to agree to politely agree to dissagree, the Touch Bar is a Pro tool, that’s not to say that general consumers can’t use it, just that it’s better used in apps like Final Cut Pro X.

I don’t know how much it actually costs Apple for the Touch Bar, but they would of added a couple more hundred £/$ to the price of the Air for the Touch Bar. I think it should be an optional extra when buying the MacBook Pro.

Laptops are terrible with touch, not only do you get fingerprints on the screen but it just feels wrong, in my opinion. Touchscreen is great on a tablet but not on a computer that I have to sit at and work with.

Maybe they will add haptic feedback to it and push it forward. It’s still promoted on the website, granted it’s lower down on the MacBook Pro section. Also it was updated slightly at last years WWDC:

New tooling for developers to create better UI interactions.

The interface builder in Xcode also handles the Touch Bar design experience now which gives developers more control.

Source Link - https://insights.dice.com/2018/06/07/wwdc-2018-macbook-touch-bar-lurking/

Steve Troughton Smith on Twitter suggested that the “Marzipan apps coming next year will have tooling to allow developers access to the Touch Bar also that they can place buttons and other items”

Time will tell I guess

So somehow finger prints are OK on a watch phone or tablet, but they are somehow more offensive on a laptop display? I think you're just set in ways of old thinking. I find finger prints a lot more annoying on the mobile devices, which are often used outside than on a laptop and I certainly think a touchscreen iMac would brilliant. MS really has the right idea with the Surface Studio over the iMac imho.

The Air is already overpriced for what it is, they could have easily added the Touch Bar to it without raising the selling price. They could also have added it to their magic keyboards, but I believe it is a concept that is withering on the vine. Again, I will be shocked if it continues in its present form into the next redesign. Going back to what SteveJUAE, sometimes it is more about what Apple doesn't say than what it does. I think in a silent way, they have already admitted to its failure. If you recall in 2016, it was ALL the news on the page. "A Touch of Genius" and a an animation showing just how "genius" it was. Now it is down to a bullet point "Oh yeah and that gimmicky Touch Bar thing."

If Apple ever does anything to make it an actual "pro" tool, then that is a discussion for later and time will tell, but for now? It's a shinny toy that was a selling point in 2016 that turned out to be pretty much nothing.

 

[Dave245]

Sorry Dave I do not believe the numbers support that given the number of Pro's using MBP by Apples own metrics is a small % and the number of FCP Pro users being even smaller you expect us to believe Apple added the TB for this fraction of a fraction Pro group on a general consumer device all be it a premium one

I didn’t say just for Final Cut Pro users, there are other Pros out there that don’t just video edit. Yes they are small but by Apple’s own statement most the professionals buy MacBook Pro as it’s their best selling then the iMac and so on.

“Apple says it currently sells about 80 percent laptops and 20 percent desktops” link and source http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2017/04/apples-odd-apology-tour-for-mac-pro-users.html

https://techcrunch.com/2018/04/05/apples-2019-imac-pro-will-be-shaped-by-workflows/ - also another interesting read.
[doublepost=1550079910][/doublepost]

So somehow finger prints are OK on a watch phone or tablet, but they are somehow more offensive on a laptop display? I think you're just set in ways of old thinking. I find finger prints a lot more annoying on the mobile devices, which are often used outside than on a laptop and I certainly think a touchscreen iMac would brilliant. MS really has the right idea with the Surface Studio over the iMac imho.

The Air is already overpriced for what it is, they could have easily added the Touch Bar to it without raising the selling price. They could also have added it to their magic keyboards, but I believe it is a concept that is withering on the vine. Again, I will be shocked if it continues in its present form into the next redesign. Going back to what SteveJUAE, sometimes it is more about what Apple doesn't say than what it does. I think in a silent way, they have already admitted to its failure. If you recall in 2016, it was ALL the news on the page. "A Touch of Genius" and a an animation showing just how "genius" it was. Now it is down to a bullet point "Oh yeah and that gimmicky Touch Bar thing."

If Apple ever does anything to make it an actual "pro" tool, then that is a discussion for later and time will tell, but for now? It's a shinny toy that was a selling point in 2016 that turned out to be pretty much nothing.

Again I have to agree to disagree, reaching up to touch a laptop screen is just silly,especially when there’s a trackpad or mouse. If I’m writing using the keyboard I don’t want to reach up and touch the screen. Just my opinion.

 

[SDColorado]

I didn’t say just for Final Cut Pro users, there are other Pros out there that don’t just video edit. Yes they are small but by Apple’s own statement most the professionals buy MacBook Pro as it’s their best selling then the iMac and so on.

“Apple says it currently sells about 80 percent laptops and 20 percent desktops” link and source http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2017/04/apples-odd-apology-tour-for-mac-pro-users.html

https://techcrunch.com/2018/04/05/apples-2019-imac-pro-will-be-shaped-by-workflows/ - also another interesting read.

Then again, Apple only sold 4,762 units in Q3 '18, declined over 11%, and was the only top 5 company to underperform the overall market. That 80%/20% is a division of a relatively small slice of the pie compared to Lenvo 16,152, HP 15,359, Dell 11,466.


Credit to @Queen6, who consistently says that "Pro's" are leaving Apple in record numbers, it would appear that maybe Apple is indeed out of touch with what professionals want. Not talking about Apple using professionals specifically, but in general.

 

[SteveJUAE]

I didn’t say just for Final Cut Pro users, there are other Pros out there that don’t just video edit. Yes they are small but by Apple’s own statement most the professionals buy MacBook Pro as it’s their best selling then the iMac and so on.

“Apple says it currently sells about 80 percent laptops and 20 percent desktops” link and source http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2017/04/apples-odd-apology-tour-for-mac-pro-users.html

https://techcrunch.com/2018/04/05/apples-2019-imac-pro-will-be-shaped-by-workflows/ - also another interesting read.
[doublepost=1550079910][/doublepost]

Again I have to agree to disagree, reaching up to touch a laptop screen is just silly,especially when there’s a trackpad or mouse. If I’m writing using the keyboard I don’t want to reach up and touch the screen. Just my opinion.

You mean the few Pro's that buy Apple go for the MBP over Imac, that's not surprising

So you do not use a KB on your IPP I take from your other comments ?

 

[SDColorado]

Again I have to agree to disagree, reaching up to touch a laptop screen is just silly,especially when there’s a trackpad or mouse. If I’m writing using the keyboard I don’t want to reach up and touch the screen. Just my opinion.

But you are OK with the silliness of reaching up to touch a flat, no haptic feedback touchbar. Umm ok We will definitely never see eye to eye on this

 

[SteveJUAE]

Then again, Apple only sold 4,762 units in Q3 '18, declined over 11%, and was the only top 5 company to underperform the overall market. That 80%/20% is a division of a relatively small slice of the pie compared to Lenvo 16,152, HP 15,359, Dell 11,466.


edit to @Queen6, who consistently says that "Pro's" are leaving Apple in record numbers, it would appear that maybe Apple is indeed out of touch with what professionals want. Not talking about Apple using professionals specifically, but in general.

@Queen6 posted a nice review of some research grads who developed a similar like TB before Apple that was more feature rich and they concluded it was superfluous

 

[Dave245]

You mean the few Pro's that buy Apple go for the MBP over Imac, that's not surprising

So you do not use a KB on your IPP I take from your other comments ?

No I don’t use a keyboard on my iPad Pro, for me the iPad Pro is a tool to draw, edit in Pixelmator (although I also do that on my Mac) and play the odd game, watching Netflix and iTunes.

When I want to sit down and write I do so at my iMac (at the moment since my MacBook Pro 2011 died late last year) I often write for long persiods of time a day as it’s my job and doing so on the iPad Pro just wouldnt be good, I like to use a proper laptop or desktop.

 

[SDColorado]

@Queen6 posted a nice review of some research grads who developed a similar like TB before Apple that was more feature rich and they concluded it was superfluous

That does not surprise me in the least. It gives you "crow syndrome" at first. You see it and your first reaction is "Ooooh shinny" but then it is quickly forgotten. My wife was the same way when I first gave her my 2016 to replace her old 2012. She was like "Ohh the Touchbar is so cool." You know how often she uses it now? yeah, almost never.


The numeric touchpad on the Asus ROG Zephyrus S (GX531) is something I would actually use though, since I do a lot of numeric entry.

 

[Dave245]

But you are OK with the silliness of reaching up to touch a flat, no haptic feedback touchbar. Umm ok We will definitely never see eye to eye on this

It’s on the keyboard and not the screen. I don’t personally use the Touch Bar as I don’t own a MacBook Pro (my 2011 died late last year), I do however see the use for it.

As I mentioned it’s great in Final Cut Pro and as I said in a previous post one of my best friends loves it for editing, he swears it saves him time.

 

[SDColorado]

It’s on the keyboard and not the screen. I don’t personally use the Touch Bar as I don’t own a MacBook Pro (my 2011 died late last year), I do however see the use for it.

As I mentioned it’s great in Final Cut Pro and as I said in a previous post one of my best friends loves it for editing, he swears it saves him time.

If you do buy one, I believe you will soon learn that it doesn't have nearly the use or utility that you think it does, having not lived it it. It isn't convenient, even on the keyboard. It is poorly supported by Apple. The design of it forces you to look away from the screen to use. It is a poor implementation and as I have said before, I believe Apple is aware that it is.

At most it should have been a upgrade option, it never should have been pushed onto users by default. That was their first failure in its implementation

A LOT of people who work with final cut and do editing, also work with external monitors and keyboards, if it was so useful for either, it should also have been included in an updated Magic Keyboard. You know what is even sillier than a touchbar you have to reach over the keyboard to use? One that you have to reach across both your external keyboard and the laptop to reach. Or can't use at all because it is in clamshell mode. So it is a feature you can *only* use on the MBP if you aren't using an external keyboard and you can also not work the same way on your iMac, iMac Pro or Mac Pro. You have to adjust how you work for each device.

Microsoft may have inconsistencies in its UI within its OS, Apple has inconsistencies within its hardware. Work this way on your iPhone, this way on your iPad, this way on your MBP and a different way on your iMac. Neither are perfect.

 

[eltoslightfoot]

If you do buy one, I believe you will soon learn that it doesn't have nearly the use or utility that you think it does, having not lived it it. It isn't convenient, even on the keyboard. It is poorly supported by Apple. The design of it forces you to look away from the screen to use. It is a poor implementation and as I have said before, I believe Apple is aware that it is.

At most it should have been a upgrade option, it never should have been pushed onto users by default. That was their first failure in its implementation

It would have been smarter to have a set of keys with a tiny screen under each key on the top row. Then you would know when you pressed it, and it still could be FUNCTION KEYS. WHICH EVERY PROGRAMMER LOVES.

Forget to mention the ESCAPE KEY.

 

[SteveJUAE]

No I don’t use a keyboard on my iPad Pro, for me the iPad Pro is a tool to draw, edit in Pixelmator (although I also do that on my Mac) and play the odd game, watching Netflix and iTunes.

When I want to sit down and write I do so at my iMac (at the moment since my MacBook Pro 2011 died late last year) I often write for long persiods of time a day as it’s my job and doing so on the iPad Pro just wouldnt be good, I like to use a proper laptop or desktop.

Dave it's a real shame we missed some of these personal Taboo's you have about touch that we have only recently found out as I am sure we would of steered you away from the SP purchase and more towards SB types subject to cost

We all definitely missed you approach to apps too, just goes to show 54 pages later and we are not on the same page LOL