Surface Phone

[dumastudetto]

Windows 8.1 mobile is still used by more than 75% of the tiny fragment of the market that uses Windows Mobile devices. Windows 10 mobile is at something like 15%. Largely this is the fault of Microsoft for cutting off so many loyal fans with older devices from receiving the latest versions of the OS. I'm aware there are valid reasons for this in some cases, particularly older budget devices with very limited processing power and RAM. But still, cutting off so many people and devices from supported updates so quickly did nothing to help their cause. They needed these people as evangelists for the platform, not feeling hopelessly abandoned by a company desperate to gain market share so as to gain app developers.

 

[iMi]

It is free.

https://developer.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/bridges/ios

The platform is free. I understand (although I didn't know that). What I mean is complete A-Z service where in-house Microsoft developers take the existing iOS code and program the app, free of charge, for those developers that meet the criteria. This way the excuse that developing resources are limited goes out the window. It's good for Microsoft, good for the developer and great for the user - the App store would grow!

 

[Michael Goff]

The platform is free. I understand (although I didn't know that). What I mean is complete A-Z service where in-house Microsoft developers take the existing iOS code and program the app, free of charge, for those developers that meet the criteria. This way the excuse that developing resources are limited goes out the window. It's good for Microsoft, good for the developer and great for the user - the App store would grow!

I'm not getting you. You want Microsoft to take people's code and do the work for them?

 

[iMi]

Windows 8.1 mobile is still used by more than 75% of the tiny fragment of the market that uses Windows Mobile devices. Windows 10 mobile is at something like 15%. Largely this is the fault of Microsoft for cutting off so many loyal fans with older devices from receiving the latest versions of the OS. I'm aware there are valid reasons for this in some cases, particularly older budget devices with very limited processing power and RAM. But still, cutting off so many people and devices from supported updates so quickly did nothing to help their cause. They needed these people as evangelists for the platform, not feeling hopelessly abandoned by a company desperate to gain market share so as to gain app developers.

I thought that was more of an Apple thing... you know, leaving users with older hardware behind, way behind. But still, good point on your part. I agree with you. They could have done a discount program for those who had those devices to help bridge the upgrade. Again, Microsoft doesn't seem as committed as they need to be to see the platform succeed.

It's like everything else. Amazon.com didn't make money for a decade. Uber is losing billions a year. Facebook was the same way. When you are breaking the mold, you have to be aggressive and invest in growth. To make it even more annoying we know Microsoft has the money to do it. Just do it already.
[doublepost=1473112993][/doublepost]

I'm not getting you. You want Microsoft to take people's code and do the work for them?

Yes!

That's exactly what I mean. Not every developer of course. They should have a threshold. If you sold say 100,000 copies or more on iOS or Android, we will port the app for you free of charge. Microsoft would eventually recoup the cost from future sales of said app. They could sign a confidentiality agreement with the developer to protect that code. Those kinds of things would have to be ironed out, but there are benefits to both parties.

When you commend 1% market share you have to do something different.
[doublepost=1473113345][/doublepost]

It is free.

https://developer.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/bridges/ios

I just read through some of the info on this website and I've noticed that they are providing blog updates almost daily. It's good to see that. I may have to eat my words in saying that they are not focusing on this problem. I am not a programer but it looks like they are providing the tools and info needed. But obviously more has to be done because the apps are not there...

 

[Michael Goff]

I thought that was more of an Apple thing... you know, leaving users with older hardware behind, way behind. But still, good point on your part. I agree with you. They could have done a discount program for those who had those devices to help bridge the upgrade. Again, Microsoft doesn't seem as committed as they need to be to see the platform succeed.

It's like everything else. Amazon.com didn't make money for a decade. Uber is losing billions a year. Facebook was the same way. When you are breaking the mold, you have to be aggressive and invest in growth. To make it even more annoying we know Microsoft has the money to do it. Just do it already.
[doublepost=1473112993][/doublepost]

Yes!

That's exactly what I mean. Not every developer of course. They should have a threshold. If you sold say 100,000 copies or more on iOS or Android, we will port the app for you free of charge. Microsoft would eventually recoup the cost from future sales of said app. They could sign a confidentiality agreement with the developer to protect that code. Those kinds of things would have to be ironed out, but there are benefits to both parties.

When you commend 1% market share you have to do something different.
[doublepost=1473113345][/doublepost]

I just read through some of the info on this website and I've noticed that they are providing blog updates almost daily. It's good to see that. I may have to eat my words in saying that they are not focusing on this problem. I am not a programer but it looks like they are providing the tools and info needed. But obviously more has to be done because the apps are not there...

They can't even afford internal testers for their OS, they definitely can't afford to port apps themselves.

 

[dumastudetto]

I thought that was more of an Apple thing... you know, leaving users with older hardware behind, way behind. But still, good point on your part. I agree with you. They could have done a discount program for those who had those devices to help bridge the upgrade. Again, Microsoft doesn't seem as committed as they need to be to see the platform succeed.

It's like everything else. Amazon.com didn't make money for a decade. Uber is losing billions a year. Facebook was the same way. When you are breaking the mold, you have to be aggressive and invest in growth. To make it even more annoying we know Microsoft has the money to do it. Just do it already.
[doublepost=1473112993][/doublepost]
.

Apple supports their devices for many years with the latest versions of the OS. Microsoft should have tried to pursue a similar strategy, if nothing else to get as many people as possible onto the latest versions of Windows Mobile to keep some developers interested in building apps using the latest technologies. What few apps are in the Windows store now, many of them are built for Windows 8.1. Even if you were crazy enough to be building Windows Phone apps today, you couldn't ignore that 3/4 of all users are 8.1 WP users.

But ultimately I think there's very little Microsoft could have done to really shift the market back to them. They got in too late, they couldn't leverage Windows this time to crush competitors and shut down the competition. In reality, many smartphone users saw these new mobile devices as a means to escape from a world of blue screens, viruses, and needless complexity. Windows represented the bad past for a lot of people, and I'm sure the idea of bringing back that past to mobile devices filled many people with fear and dread.

Microsoft sank a lot of money into mobile, and have written most of it off. With market share already going backwards this year before Microsift effectively announced the death of Windows Mobile for consumers, they couldn't carry on burning more good money on a strategy that had already failed. Investors wouldn't stand for them to continue throwing more good money after bad much longer. They had to get out, and change course.

 

[maflynn]

With market share already going backwards

You can't even quantify their marketshare going backwards, as its at a near nonexistent state.

they couldn't carry on burning more good money on a strategy that had already failed.

Technically they can, they have a boat load of money, and are very profitable, so they could carry a non-profitable product for years and years.

Investors wouldn't stand for them to continue throwing more good money after bad much longer.

As long as MS is making money and have a cohesive strategy, then investors won't complain too much.

Overall, I like what people had to say, Nadella, is a cloud person and we see MS turning to services and the cloud for the future. The surface phone has only one affect, bring back to people's minds, the windows phone failure and I will even say broken promises.

 

[Vegastouch]

Nope. My interest in a Windows phone has faded. Im quite comfortable using the Galaxy phones and having a Nexus 5 made me realize that.

 

[spinedoc77]

I thought that was more of an Apple thing... you know, leaving users with older hardware behind, way behind. But still, good point on your part. I agree with you. They could have done a discount program for those who had those devices to help bridge the upgrade. Again, Microsoft doesn't seem as committed as they need to be to see the platform succeed.

It's like everything else. Amazon.com didn't make money for a decade. Uber is losing billions a year. Facebook was the same way. When you are breaking the mold, you have to be aggressive and invest in growth. To make it even more annoying we know Microsoft has the money to do it. Just do it already.
[doublepost=1473112993][/doublepost]

Yes!

That's exactly what I mean. Not every developer of course. They should have a threshold. If you sold say 100,000 copies or more on iOS or Android, we will port the app for you free of charge. Microsoft would eventually recoup the cost from future sales of said app. They could sign a confidentiality agreement with the developer to protect that code. Those kinds of things would have to be ironed out, but there are benefits to both parties.

When you commend 1% market share you have to do something different.
[doublepost=1473113345][/doublepost]

I just read through some of the info on this website and I've noticed that they are providing blog updates almost daily. It's good to see that. I may have to eat my words in saying that they are not focusing on this problem. I am not a programer but it looks like they are providing the tools and info needed. But obviously more has to be done because the apps are not there...

I think that's a great idea, for MS to offer to do some of the work. But then again they have done a LOT of the work in releasing the tools they have, from what I understand it's very easy to do. So it's not that MS isn't making it easy, devs just don't see any money in the windows platform. Which brings me to another point, MS should consider paying off some of the more popular platforms to develop their apps for windows. It's certainly not unheard of, and having some big apps on the platform will definitely help out the mobile market. But that's assuming they even care about the mobile market, which sadly Nadella clearly doesn't care about. You can't have a chicken without an egg, and you can't have an egg without a chicken.

 

[Three141]

Is anyone interested in the rumored Surface Phone?

I am ready to try something new and after getting the surface pro 4, I've been thinking about the Lumia 950XL and they are going for $399 right now. But I think I'll wait to see if Microsoft releases the Surface Phone. This could be interesting.

Any Lumia 950XL users here? How is W10 Mobile?

Op, I'm chuking in the towel on the Surface phone, I've just seen the below on phonearena.
Whilst I usually don't give much credit to rumours the sheer timing of this and HP phones gives it some weight to me.

I'll most likely go Iphone 7 + watch 2 but still keeping a lookout at what Andriod is offering with a keen eye on motorolla.

The iphone was a bit more expensive than I had planned for (UK price hike) however with the watch 2, they hit it out of the park!

I shudder to think of having to put itunes back on though, that was the best thing about getting out of the Apple eco-system hopefully it's improved.

http://www.phonearena.com/news/Dont...l-fall-2017-or-better-not-wait-at-all_id85239

 

[Dr McKay]

Id be curious about the design, I can see a surface phone being absolutely stunning looking if it takes design cues from the Surface. But the only way if be interested in it would be if it ran Android, I wish Microsoft would put it on devices, they have enough software services on Android that it's a viable platform for them. I have OneDrive, Office 365 and the Outlook app on mine, so even on Android I'm a pretty heavy Microsoft consumer.

 

[pkginstall]

Is anyone interested in the rumored Surface Phone?

I am ready to try something new and after getting the surface pro 4, I've been thinking about the Lumia 950XL and they are going for $399 right now. But I think I'll wait to see if Microsoft releases the Surface Phone. This could be interesting.

Any Lumia 950XL users here? How is W10 Mobile?

All Windows Phones look good... on the surface.

 

[Michael Goff]

Fall 2017 = Surface Phone va iPhone 8.

I wonder who will get more press coverage...

 

[Surface3User]

I am. Not sure why other than I want generally like Windows 10 and am interested in the mobile version of the OS. I don't really use apps that much, but there will be some sacrifices such as a parking app that I occasionally use.

 

[spinedoc77]

Op, I'm chuking in the towel on the Surface phone, I've just seen the below on phonearena.
Whilst I usually don't give much credit to rumours the sheer timing of this and HP phones gives it some weight to me.

I'll most likely go Iphone 7 + watch 2 but still keeping a lookout at what Andriod is offering with a keen eye on motorolla.

The iphone was a bit more expensive than I had planned for (UK price hike) however with the watch 2, they hit it out of the park!

I shudder to think of having to put itunes back on though, that was the best thing about getting out of the Apple eco-system hopefully it's improved.

http://www.phonearena.com/news/Dont...l-fall-2017-or-better-not-wait-at-all_id85239

Yeah I'm going back to an iPhone and am also really really dreading iTunes. I cannot fathom how Apple gets away with complete junk like iTunes in this day and age. I will also really really miss being able to download an app from the internet instead of having to do it on the phone or iTunes.

 

[iMi]

So, as some of you know I've recently tried Windows 10 Mobile and overall loved the platform. One of the annoyances was the font size on apps where the title or header would take up 20% or more of the screen. It seemed wasteful and esthetically off.

Apple went ahead and copied the ONE complaint I've had with Windows 10:

 

[Three141]

Yeah I'm going back to an iPhone and am also really really dreading iTunes. I cannot fathom how Apple gets away with complete junk like iTunes in this day and age. I will also really really miss being able to download an app from the internet instead of having to do it on the phone or iTunes.

I'm glad it's not just me, Itunes was diabolical on Windows! I had the 5s at the time.

I could not afford the iphone 7 and Apple watch 2 so I bought a refurbished iphone 6s+ 128gb and plan to get the Aluminium apple watch 2 + Apple care.

So far neither itunes or ios 10 are giving me any grief but I do miss two things: ability to drag and drop music and the back button.

Microsoft have done such a good job with Onedrive that the move was painless.

 

[sracer]

Yeah besides totally missing the mobile revolution Ballmer was great. When I say MS has had this attitude it's since nadella took over. He's more of a cloud person and it doesn't seem he takes mobile seriously at all.

Ballmer didn't miss the mobile revolution. Microsoft was the pioneer... nearly a decade before Apple produced the iPhone. There were some cutting edge devices back then. They were a blast to develop for. There were UI frameworks available for Microsoft's mobile platform that make Android look like it is straight-jacketed.

Microsoft fumbled and rebooted their strategy numerous times... THAT is one of the primary causes for where they are now.

 

[spinedoc77]

Ballmer didn't miss the mobile revolution. Microsoft was the pioneer... nearly a decade before Apple produced the iPhone. There were some cutting edge devices back then. They were a blast to develop for. There were UI frameworks available for Microsoft's mobile platform that make Android look like it is straight-jacketed.

Microsoft fumbled and rebooted their strategy numerous times... THAT is one of the primary causes for where they are now.

I used windows mobile extensively, trust me they missed the mobile revolution. Between the iPod, iPhone and iPad Apple completely redefined the mobile market. Granted they made us stupid in the in process with a dumbed down OS and apps, but they marketed them perfectly and gave us things we didn't have like battery life, thinness, low weight, etc. But for all the mistakes Ballmer made he was better than nadella for the mobile market. I'm not so sure MS even needs the mobile market as long as they sell their cloud and subscription services.

 

[sracer]

I used windows mobile extensively, trust me they missed the mobile revolution. Between the iPod, iPhone and iPad Apple completely redefined the mobile market. Granted they made us stupid in the in process with a dumbed down OS and apps, but they marketed them perfectly and gave us things we didn't have like battery life, thinness, low weight, etc. But for all the mistakes Ballmer made he was better than nadella for the mobile market. I'm not so sure MS even needs the mobile market as long as they sell their cloud and subscription services.

I guess we have different memories of history or a matter of semantics. I too used Windows Mobile extensively (even before it was called "Windows Mobile") and also developed for the platform. There were things that I could do with the platform back then that I still cannot do on the iPhone. (both as a developer and as a user)

Microsoft was on the top of the mobile market back-in-the-day but they couldn't maintain that lead. In my mind there is a difference between a "has-been" and a "never-was". Microsoft in the mobile market is a "has-been".

 

[spinedoc77]

I guess we have different memories of history or a matter of semantics. I too used Windows Mobile extensively (even before it was called "Windows Mobile") and also developed for the platform. There were things that I could do with the platform back then that I still cannot do on the iPhone. (both as a developer and as a user)

Microsoft was on the top of the mobile market back-in-the-day but they couldn't maintain that lead. In my mind there is a difference between a "has-been" and a "never-was". Microsoft in the mobile market is a "has-been".

I used them all the way back to Pocket PC and CE days. The devices back then had no cellular, you would have to use a 1xrtt cellular enabled CF card and hack VOIP into it, ahh those were the days. But that was an acquired taste for sure. I totally agree with you that it was (and is in some ways) more powerful, that that didn't sell phones. So I don't disagree with you from a functionality level, I still think Ballmer missed making windows mobile into something that consumers would want. So I'll rephrase that MS didn't miss the mobile market, it missed some rapid changes which happened to it and couldn't catch up.

I'm a weird kind of consumer, one that likes weird stuff like full windows on a small phone screen. I've been trying to stuff windows into small screens for as long as it's been around. I do have very fond memories of windows phones throughout that time. I especially liked the models with the slide out keyboards like the 8525 and of course ipaqs. I even really dug when windows mobile hardware was a branch off pocket pc's, like the Motorola Q and the Samsung blackjack. All of that stuff was so far ahead of anything else.

 

[mi7chy]

I had one of those set ups back around 2002, a Dell Axim X5 PDA with Sprint CF2031 CDMA 1x and Socket 802.11g compact flash cards. CF2031 allowed phone calls without VOIP. It was the modular forefather to smartphones and phablets.

 

[spinedoc77]

I had one of those set ups back around 2002, a Dell Axim X5 PDA with Sprint CF2031 CDMA 1x and Socket 802.11g compact flash cards. CF2031 allowed phone calls without VOIP. It was the modular forefather to smartphones and phablets.

YEP! I had both of those. Wow I remember that Sprint card, that was the first one I had on an PPC. I remember the Axim very well. Good memories.

 

[Frisco]

Windows 10 Mobile is very similar to Windows 8.1 Mobile. It's not like comparing the PC versions of each.