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Suspects Can Be Forced to Provide Smartphone Passcodes, Rules New Jersey Supreme Court

Spungoflex

macrumors 6502
Oct 30, 2012
370
418
This is why this election is so important. This could go to the US Supreme Court and whoever is president on January 21st will most likely get to choose at least one seat. I for one don't want trump to be that person. He's done enough damage.

You are really stretching, considering this decision was made in New Jersey with judges likely picked by Democrats.

Kamala Harris is FAR harsher on criminals and abusing civil liberties than Trump could ever dream of being.
 
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Morgenland

macrumors 6502a
May 28, 2009
905
872
Europe
Law and Order ;-)
How exactly are they going to enforce that in a free country?

ssh.png
 
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ericvmazzone

macrumors regular
Dec 9, 2008
208
0
Kalamazoo, MI
Not a chance. How exactly are they going to enforce that? Forcing them to provide biological data is one thing, but forcing them to speak something they've remembered? You can't force someone to talk, period.


THIS is exactly what the defendant SHOULD have argued. But they claimed a 5th Amendment violation and your point is a FIRST Amendment issue. You can't be forced to provide a document or speech as that would be compelled speech and THAT would be the violation.
 
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Shirasaki

macrumors G4
May 16, 2015
10,285
4,110
It definitely is. Our 4th amendment rights have been whittled down to nearly nothing over the years under leadership from both parties. The Snowden leaks should have been enough of a wake up call.
Human nature: disregard and dodge issues until it is way too late and damage is irreversible.
Up until the system is damaged beyond repair I don‘t see any hope of change happening.
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Law and Order ;-)
How exactly are they going to enforce that in a free country?

View attachment 943356
Slowly convert a free country into another China. That’s how they enforce it.
 
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germinator

macrumors regular
Apr 22, 2009
160
47
Welcome to New Jersey, where the constitution doesn't apply and your rights are trampled upon.
 
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bollman

macrumors 6502
Sep 25, 2001
357
503
Lund, Sweden
I don't know about you but my phone is MUCH less valuable than the data within it.

What data can possibly reside on your phone to make it worth more than $500 (or whatever a used smartphone could be worth)?
All "data" created on the phone is automatically uploaded to one cloud or the other so it should not be that.
If you're thinking banking details, I really hope that it's not in the clear if someone gets into your phone. All my banking details are secured by external "BankID" with 10-digit passcode, my phone alone gives no access to any valuables (banking, stocks, nothing).
Identity theft? There's nothing on my phone that can't easily be accessed directly via online databases, nobody would go through the trouble of trying to steal my phone to get that data.
 
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Santiago

macrumors regular
Jun 14, 2002
220
106
Mountain View, California
And now, if they can throw you in jail for contempt of court for refusing to unlock a phone, they can claim any phone is yours and your failure to unlock it is pretext to jail you indefinitely without even having to charge you with a crime.
 
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StevieD100

macrumors 6502a
Jan 18, 2014
634
914
Living Dangerously in Retirement
Oh heck nooo! Apple do something about this please!
All Apple needs to do is have a passphrase that automatically initiates a factory restore. Use that and watch the TLA's squirm.
A sort of 'dead mans handle'.
Besides... don't all the US Law Enforcment Businesses have access to Cellbrite kit by now? Using that negates the need for a user to do anything.
 
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SoGood

macrumors 6502
Apr 9, 2003
439
213
Curious how are they going to force the individual? Guantanamo Bay transfer? Torture? Waterboarding? LOL
 
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MacBH928

Contributor
May 17, 2008
4,826
1,856
I thought in America, you had the right to...remain silent?!

Anyone, 99.99999999% of people have nothing to hide from gov. its not like they are planning to nuke the white house. Most people are looking for privacy from the masses and keep their personal life... personal. Unless you have nudes, I bet there is nothing in your digital device that you mind the gov. looking at.
 
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twistedpixel8

macrumors 6502
Jun 9, 2017
394
1,179
That would be destruction of evidence (which, generally, is itself a crime), and the court may very well end up assuming that you did so in order to hide exactly the incriminating evidence the prosecutor is after.

Much better to forget your passcode. (Don't just "forget", though. That would be illegal as well.) Keeping in mind, of course, that the court may have no problem holding you indefinitely for contempt if they don't actually believe you.

Funny how the court doesn't actually have to prove someone committed a crime in order to hold them indefinitely.
I definitely see your point but they’d have a hard time proving someone didn’t get genuinely confused under pressure and accidentally gave the “wipe” passcode. I’d say that’s on par with your suggestion of “forgetting” your passcode in the first place. If you can’t be charged for forgetting your passcode, then you can’t be charged with accidentally giving the wrong one which leads to destruction of data.
 
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Treq

macrumors 6502a
Apr 23, 2009
695
765
Santa Monica, CA
You are really stretching, considering this decision was made in New Jersey with judges likely picked by Democrats.

Kamala Harris is FAR harsher on criminals and abusing civil liberties than Trump could ever dream of being.
Well, you have to know that's not true... unless you are considering all trumps buddies he has pardoned or just had Barr set free. In that case, he has been easier on criminals.
 
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LillDrutten

macrumors regular
Oct 15, 2008
168
34
You need a keyserver somewhere on the net. (accessed through TOR.) You give them the revocation code, problem solved.
 
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lederermc

macrumors 6502a
Sep 30, 2014
702
604
Seattle
Technically it doesn't. Your diary, your photo album, etc are not protected by the Fifth, otherwise no documentary evidence would be admissible in court. The phone is nothing else than a repository of documentary evidence (similar to your hard drive), therefore it's not protected by the Fifth - provided a warrant.
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I mean... are you for McCarthyism?
If you have to tell someone the password then it violate free speech. So bio-unlock is okay but sayings the password is not.
 
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lederermc

macrumors 6502a
Sep 30, 2014
702
604
Seattle
What’s the legal difference between:
“Police! Open the door!”
and
“Police! Open you phone” ?

Will it make a difference if there’s a warrant?
If you do not unlock your door then they kick it in. If you don't unlock your phone then they hope the hackers can unlock it.
 
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VictorTango777

macrumors 6502a
Oct 28, 2017
562
1,073
Andrews' attorney, Charles Sciarra, called the court's ruling a "major defeat to the United States Constitution."

Funny thing is, if this corrupt former sheriff were still on the job, he would be arguing that suspects should be required to reveal their passwords. So he got what he deserved. Are FBI agents and congress people paying attention?
 
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russell_314

macrumors 68000
Feb 10, 2019
1,941
2,569
USA
Except for the second amendment of course.
You can't pick and choose the ones you like or dislike. Well you can but it doesn't end well. People have traded so much of their freedom for "security" but in reality got nothing. I've lived in communist countries and the problem is most people in the USA wouldn't recognize it. It's not this terrible thing where you are beaten every day and only eat bread. You live your life just like you do in the good ole US of A. The government is just a bit different and you don't have certain freedoms.
 
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VictorTango777

macrumors 6502a
Oct 28, 2017
562
1,073
I thought in America, you had the right to...remain silent?!

Anyone, 99.99999999% of people have nothing to hide from gov. its not like they are planning to nuke the white house. Most people are looking for privacy from the masses and keep their personal life... personal. Unless you have nudes, I bet there is nothing in your digital device that you mind the gov. looking at.

You don't get to decide what is relevant or not, what is incriminating or not. And of course, there is no such thing as police misconduct.
 
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theprizerevealed

macrumors regular
Feb 26, 2016
178
9
000 Destruct 0

The BEST line from that movie is found only in the book about the movie actually. ;) Dr. McCoy and the others are escaping Spacedock aboard the damaged Enterprise and they are watching the Excelsior power up to pursue them and Dr. McCoy says - "MY GOD! They're gaining on us just sitting there!"

Lol
 
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Spungoflex

macrumors 6502
Oct 30, 2012
370
418
Well, you have to know that's not true... unless you are considering all trumps buddies he has pardoned or just had Barr set free. In that case, he has been easier on criminals.

Trump hasn’t pardoned even 5% of what Obama did. But nice attempt anyway.
 
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