Swimming For Exercise

[A.Goldberg]

Thanks for the encouragement! My wife and I joined our local rec center just before the new year and the biggest draw for me was the pool. She swam in high school but has since fallen out of shape, so I'm hoping that time together in the pool can make us both better. I likely wouldn't be there without her. As such, I don't really have a plan, which is pretty much the same for my running and cycling most of the time. I've just gotten better at both of those by doing them regularly, slowly increasing distance until I become "fast." No sprints or specific hill climbs...just run. Just bike. And (for now) just swim. Maybe after getting used to the water, I can put all the pieces together and do some sprint tris. Right now, the rec center has an indoor tri series every few weeks. It appears to be self reported and points are just based on how many you complete.

Thanks, as well, for the recommendations on equipment. I bought a pair of goggles already. The Wirecutter (where I go for suggestions on everything I don't really care or know how to research) suggested the Aqua Sphere Kayennes. They've worked well so far. If I keep at this, another pair of goggles is a good idea. As for the clothing, I'm not super self conscious – I run and bike in tights already – but I'll end up with a pair of jammers mostly because my wife wouldn't be seen with me in briefs. Ha! I have a deal with her where I need to run a 5k in 19:15 (or a little less than 2 minutes faster than my PR) and she'll buy me a pair of real, legit, super short running shorts. I think I'd need to beat Michael Phelps to get a pair of swim briefs!

But, so far, so good. I'll be sure to check in on this thread from time to time to note my progress

Well, I can say that having a swim buddy makes a big difference. Having an experienced swimmer, even if out of shape, is a huge benefit as well.

I’ve reccomended this swim program to a couple people looking to get into swimming. They’ve had success with it. You might like it. It brings you to a 1000 yard straight swim (it’s in meters but yards are essentially interchangeable).
https://www.speedo.com/on/demandwar.../media/uk/1K-WET-Training-Plans-BEGINNERS.pdf
The only modification I would reccomend is swimming more than 2x a week. It’s best to swim 4+ times a week, so I’d either do each session twice or do 2 weeks worth of sessions every week.

Aqua sphere Kayennes are very recreational looking swimming goggles. I suppose they’re probably more comfortable and less prone to leaking. Growing up doing competitive swimming I tend to train like a competitive swimmer despite the fact I don’t compete anymore - so my advice tends to be competition oriented more than casual fitness. Maybe I’ll join a team again at some point...

I met my current girlfriend in the pool. We’ve been dating for 7 years... probably going to get married once she finishes med school. She gives me a hard time about speedos but I tell her it’s why she was attracted me in the first place hahah. If you swim at a pool with seasoned swimmers they won’t think twice about anyone wearing swim briefs (except maybe the 50 YO obese guy covered in body hair). Most experienced swimmers wear speedos except for important swim meets where you spend $300 on a tech suit that lasts 3 meets at most before wearing out.

I suppose at the end of the day it’s what you’re most comfortable with. You will notice a massive difference from wearing regular baggy swim trunks though. Swim trunks aren’t ideal for maintaining good form either.

BTW I noticed Arena is having a sale on some of their suits here- ~$10-15 for poly suits apparently with free shipping. That’s a really good deal. I might buy one or two- you can never have enough suits. As I mentioned earlier I’ve never used regular Arena suits, but I’m a fan of their tech suits. For $10-15 you can’t go wrong.
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You're absolutely right – breathing is the toughest part. I had private swim lessons when I was a kid, where I learned how to take breaths and everything, but I've long forgotten that, so I'm trying to relearn. With running, I can get into a zone where, breathing-wise, I feel like I can run forever. I haven't come close to finding that in the pool yet, but it is way early. I imagine I'll eventually get there

If you’re in good cardio shape from running than you’re ahead of the curve. Just make sure you lift your head out of the water sideways (not forwards) and turn your head out of the water as little as possible- just enough to suck in some air. Try to force yourself to breath every 3 or 5 strokes (if you breathe bilaterally) or 4-6 (if you breathe unilaterally).

 

[0388631]

I’m not a physical therapist, but I imagine swimming would help to some extent. That said, there’s probably more effective ways of doing it. Typical tendon strengthening exercises seem to involve sustained stretching of the tendon with weight involved.

Swimming can be very hard on the shoulders, especially if poor technique is involved. I suppose it’s relative to a number of factors including the amount of time swimming, distance, speed, age, etc. A lot of people run into shoulder issues though due to poor technique and overuse of swimming aids (ie paddles), but also just overuse.

My right shoulder occasionally acts up, I imagine it has to do with +/- 25 years of wear and tear from swimming in general. I started competitive swimming at age 5 and in high school had periods of swimming 10,000+ yards a day. Crazy to think the mileage I’ve put on my body.

That's a very good explanation. I'll have to speak with my GP. I do shoulder exercises using bands and very low weight already, but I sometimes feel I could strengthen the tendons and smaller muscles some more. And, yes, I do know of the wear and tear regular competitive swimming can cause to shoulder joints; my eldest nephew was a competitive swimmer and the occasional shoulder pain gets to him nowadays.

Though, in all honesty, I never thought it was a real issue because I presumed water meant low impact and that you couldn't injure yourself short of drowning.
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My impression is (anyone correct me) is that tendons are not strengthened, but are stretched (stretching routine) to prevent injury. From my experience, resistance training (light weights) helps with swimming, including a 15- 20 minute stretching routine.

Yes, sorry, I must have been thinking of exogenous compounds that could strengthen tendons, but also cause "brittleness" long term.

 

[A.Goldberg]

That's a very good explanation. I'll have to speak with my GP. I do shoulder exercises using bands and very low weight already, but I sometimes feel I could strengthen the tendons and smaller muscles some more. And, yes, I do know of the wear and tear regular competitive swimming can cause to shoulder joints; my eldest nephew was a competitive swimmer and the occasional shoulder pain gets to him nowadays.

Though, in all honesty, I never thought it was a real issue because I presumed water meant low impact and that you couldn't injure yourself short of drowning.
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Yes, sorry, I must have been thinking of exogenous compounds that could strengthen tendons, but also cause "brittleness" long term.

The real question is when are you going to start swimming.

Even with proper technique swimming is a repetitive motion and while water is “low impact” it’s not no impact.

 

[0388631]

The real question is when are you going to start swimming.

Even with proper technique swimming is a repetitive motion and while water is “low impact” it’s not no impact.

As soon as the air temperature shoots up.

 

[A.Goldberg]

As soon as the air temperature shoots up.

It was 4 degrees F here yesterday, -17 with windchill (that’s -15.5 and -27C for you). I don’t want to hear any excuses Zenny.

 

[0388631]

It was 4 degrees F here yesterday, -17 with windchill (that’s -15.5 and -27C for you). I don’t want to hear any excuses Zenny.

Some of us are sensitive to cold windy conditions.

 

[A.Goldberg]

Some of us are sensitive to cold windy conditions.

Nobody likes to be cold and wet while standing in the wind. Excuses Zenny, Excuses. They will not be tolerated.

 

[Huntn]

As soon as the air temperature shoots up.

Where do you plan on swimming? In Minnesota I was annoyed at having to chop out a lane before starting in the Winter...

 

[0388631]

Where do you plan on swimming? In Minnesota I was annoyed at having to chop out a lane before starting in the Winter...

Home. We have a pool. I used to use it a lot more years ago and have toyed with filling it up or having it removed, but eventually come to the conclusions it's more useful than I originally thought it was.

 

[Huntn]

Home. We have a pool. I used to use it a lot more years ago and have toyed with filling it up or having it removed, but eventually come to the conclusions it's more useful than I originally thought it was.

For swimming? It’s more efficient and helpful to your stroke and swimming effectiveness to be in a 25 meter (yard) pool. I have a 30 foot pool at home and not only is it too short forvswimming laps, but even in Texas it’s too cold in the Winter to swim in.

 

[0388631]

For swimming? It’s more efficient and helpful to your stroke and swimming effectiveness to be in a 25 meter (yard) pool. I have a 30 foot pool at home and not only is it too short forvswimming laps, but even in Texas it’s too cold in the Winter to swim in.

Our's is bigger than that, I believe. I have to measure it. I have a good heating system in place but it's useless because I generally don't like the feeling of cold wind unless the ambient temperature is warm, such as in the summer. That said, I'm not too focused on laps.

But I do have a client whose home pool is almost olympic level size. At some point people spend their money on excess. Same bloke with the massive Mao painting in their foyer that I mentioned in the past.

 

[A.Goldberg]

Our's is bigger than that, I believe. I have to measure it. I have a good heating system in place but it's useless because I generally don't like the feeling of cold wind unless the ambient temperature is warm, such as in the summer. That said, I'm not too focused on laps.

But I do have a client whose home pool is almost olympic level size. At some point people spend their money on excess. Same bloke with the massive Mao painting in their foyer that I mentioned in the past.

I grew up with a 20x40 inground pool in the backyard. Most backyard pools are 16-18 c 30-36ft. Even a 40ft pool is useless for swimming laps. You really need a 25yd pool to have any enjoyable at home experience or an endless/infinite (not to be confused with infinity) pool. I’m not really a fan of endless pools though. It’s too annoying to adjust your speed. I had some elderly neighbors who happened to have a 25yd pool in their backyard that I’d ocassionally borrow in the summer. The previous owners wife was a former Olympic swimmer. They didn’t use it and my swimming lessended the burden on the maintence guy. I also had the luxury of open water in the ocean swimming at my parents beach house, but it’s something I never really got into very seriously. Open water swimming is a very different experience than than pool swimming. It’s always been something I’ve thought about doing more of. Unfortunately the water temperature in Rhode Island doesn’t peak (around 75 degrees) until the late summer. Oftentimes open water swimmers wear wetsuits to compensate for the temperature and gain some extra buoyancy to deal with the choppiness. These wetsuits tend to be very expensive and have to be properly fit to ensure acceptable mobility.

I’d suggest joining a gym or club and using a legitimate lap pool. It also prevents you from having to deal with the temperature issues.

Back in my teens when I swam competitively we would have 5:00AM practice in an outdoor pool. In New England the water can be pretty cold in the morning. Nothing like going for a swim in 68 degree water after pulling dead birds and squirrels out of the water. On the flip side the water could also get up to like 88 degrees in the afternoon which is disgustingly hot when you’re swimming thousands of yards. That pool also sucked because it was like 3.5 feet in the shallow end. Just deep enough that your hands didn’t touch the bottom and you had enough depth to make a flip turn. It didn’t absorb waves well so everyones times in that pool were garbage.

A good lap pool temperature is 78 degrees. It’s awesome when you can feel your body heat radiating into the cooler water as you move through the water.

 

[tobefirst ⚽️]

@A.Goldberg, I picked up two pair of jammers from Arena. They are tight...and I'm used to cycling gear. Perhaps they are a little too small, but I'll call them "inspiring." I would like to lose 10-15 pounds.

My latest swim was very good. I did 700m in the same amount of time as my previous 650s, but without stopping the watch at all, and with nothing longer than a 30 second rest between lengths. I may get to swim again on Thursday. If not then, Saturday. That's when I'll get to see how much the jammers will help.

 

[A.Goldberg]

@A.Goldberg, I picked up two pair of jammers from Arena. They are tight...and I'm used to cycling gear. Perhaps they are a little too small, but I'll call them "inspiring." I would like to lose 10-15 pounds.

My latest swim was very good. I did 700m in the same amount of time as my previous 650s, but without stopping the watch at all, and with nothing longer than a 30 second rest between lengths. I may get to swim again on Thursday. If not then, Saturday. That's when I'll get to see how much the jammers will help.

Nice! Now you’re a real swimmer. I think you will appreciate the the benefit of having far less drag in terms of comfort, speed, and improving technique. I just ordered a suit from there myself- I couldn’t pass up the price. If I recall Arena tends to run on the smaller side. I’m a 31 waist and I went with 32 as the size chart suggested. You can never have enough suits... okay maybe not, but having 2 is always a good idea. I usually have at least 2 suits in my bag at any given time just In case one breaks or if I feel like I might want to wear jammers instead. Keep in mind if the material is is poly then it doesn’t really “stretch” the same way Lycra suits will (or similar material in cycling shorts or running tights). It may loosen up a little when it gets wet, but poly suits usually don’t really stretch out over time.

As I mentioned before Lycra/poly suits tend to be lightly more comfortable as they stretch an little more but they also wear out relatively quickly. The material degrades, loosens up, and eventually will either reduce itself to a a bunch of threads or tear. Back in my competition days I’d wear poly suits for practice due to their durability and Lycra suits for general meets due to the increased flexibility ergo range of motion - due to the stretch you can also go a size down as many swimmers do for allegedly better hydrodynamics. I’d use tech suits for their speed for important meets (ie championships) for their speed and the fact they cost $300 and only last several meets at best. I’d also reccomend against washing them in washing machines or dryers or using soap- chlorine kills everything anyways. Rinse after every swim in the sink. Don’t use the suit dryers if your pool has them- they wear out suits faster (the suits dry fast as it is) and I question how often they’re cleaned.

Once you get your technique down, gain some endurance, and are looking to improve your strength or get a more rigorous workout I’d suggest getting a drag suit. As the name suggests it creates drag while not being baggy or heavy like regular swim trunks to interfere with the balance of you stroke. You wear it over your regular suit even though it looks weird with jammers. I reccomend this suit: https://www.amazon.com/Speedo-Mens-Poly-Square-Swimsuit/dp/B00070PI2S (@Huntn you might be interested in this too). I keep 2 in my bag depending on how much drag I want- a size 32 and size 34. You can go up on sizing for more drag and it actually makes a significant difference.

In the meantime you may want to invest in paddles to assist with your technique. I like the Finis Agility paddles since they’re specifically desiged for improving technique. They should be used sparingly to prevent over stressing shoulders (leading to injury) or causing dependence. https://www.amazon.com/FINIS-Agility-Hand-Paddles/dp/B07CH8S6MQ Finis makes excellent training products and puts a lot of research into their products.

I know @Huntn is a big fan of swimmers snorkels- a snorkel that vents over the middle of your head rather than the side so you can focus on your technique. Finis also makes these. Be aware some pools don’t allow snorkels for safety reasons. I’ve never really used these myself, but when I was in high school I did some private coaching of younger competitive swimmers and these were pretty helpful.

Most pools provide kickboards and pull buoys. Kickboarding is the best way to improve and strengthen your kick. Pull buoys are great for focusing on arm/hand technique and rotation- these should be used sparingly though like paddles.

Lastly, another tool that can be helpful are swim training fins. Not 2.5ft long scuba fins. Swim fins are very short and help improve kick techinquen in addition to allowing you to swim further when you’re tired. These also should be used sparingly. I reccomend something similar to these:
https://www.amazon.com/FINIS-Zoomer-Gold/dp/B07CK34YKH
If you ever decide to work on your dolphin kick they also make monofins (like a mermaids tail). They’re super fun.

It sounds like you’re making progress. That’s awesome! I suspect once you throw on the jammers you’ll find your time/distance will make a big leap in improvement. Best of luck! Let me know how it goes.

 

[A.Goldberg]

@Huntn and @tobefirst

I got my new suit yesterday. Amazing for $10 with free shipping they sent via FedEx in a relatively large box, included an Arena decal, and a 20% off my next purchase coupon. I find it hard to believe they made any money off of this deal.

Then print I got is super 90’s, I find it hilarious but I love it. I have yet to try it out but it seems to be pretty good quality. Maybe nicer than TYR but not as nice a Speedo? We’ll see. I’ll have to try it on and see what happens when it gets wet. If I like it maybe I’ll order myself another suit. If anyone is interested in the 20% off coupon I’m more than happy to share it.

As I think I mentioned earlier I don’t reccomend Nike. Maybe their suits have improved since I last used them. I was on a team and we got Nike suits - I think primarily because of the color/print. They were really bad. They got heavy and loose when wet, the waistband would roll over itself and perhaps worst of all the edges of the suit on your butt wouldn’t stay in place and could basically turn the suit into a thong. Eventually we all agreed we needed new suits.

 

[tobefirst ⚽️]

@A.Goldberg I used the jammers for the first time today. I accidentally qualified for the olympics. (; I'd say they trimmed 90 seconds off my 650m time.

I was able to do 850m today with very minimal breaks. Total time was around 26 minutes, which I feel pretty good about compared to my first swim. I plan on increasing the total time spent swimming until I'm around the 45 minute mark. That should be a good goal for a few months worth of work.

 

[Huntn]

I was advised today by a nice lady (former competitive swimmer) that no, I was not swimming 50 laps, but in fact each length of the pool is a lap, and I am swimming 100 laps (2500 yds)! I knew about the 2500 yds, but 100 laps sounds more impressive.

 

[Huntn]

So @A.Goldberg, a lap is just one length of the pool? I was thinking in terms of a track, where you have to complete a circle for it to be a lap.

 

[A.Goldberg]

So @A.Goldberg, a lap is just one length of the pool? I was thinking in terms of a track, where you have to complete a circle for it to be a lap.

I refer to a lap as down and back (50 yards in a 25 yard pool) and a length as 25 yards. That said, it’s not uncommon to hear lap synonymously use with length. It can be a bit confusing when they’re interchanged.

 

[Huntn]

I refer to a lap as down and back (50 yards in a 25 yard pool) and a length as 25 yards. That said, it’s not uncommon to hear lap synonymously use with length. It can be a bit confusing when they’re interchanged.

We may have discussed this before. Thanks!

 

[tobefirst ⚽️]

I'm up to 925 yds (I found out the pool is 25 yds across, not meters) in about 27 minutes. This is about a 50% increase from my first ever swim and all of it is freestyle, whereas before I was doing a lot of back and breast, which would keep my head out of the water. So, I'm getting the breathing down. I'm working my way up to more time, adding a minute every few/handful of sessions; I probably swim twice a week, maybe three times if I don't feel like running. Cross training like this has allowed me to exercise 6 days a week feeling good, whereas I couldn't do that just running. I enjoy it a lot...as long as I don't have to wait for a lane.

 

[jaduff46]

I'm up to 925 yds (I found out the pool is 25 yds across, not meters) in about 27 minutes. This is about a 50% increase from my first ever swim and all of it is freestyle, whereas before I was doing a lot of back and breast, which would keep my head out of the water. So, I'm getting the breathing down. I'm working my way up to more time, adding a minute every few/handful of sessions; I probably swim twice a week, maybe three times if I don't feel like running. Cross training like this has allowed me to exercise 6 days a week feeling good, whereas I couldn't do that just running. I enjoy it a lot...as long as I don't have to wait for a lane.

Good for you! Before I retired I started out the same way. Could only do 400 yards free at first, but tried to build up a lap a session every time I went and eventually got it up to 2200-2400 in about 35-40 minutes. I modeled the stroke after Terry Lawson’s Perpetual Motion video.

Latest effort was flipping the turns rather than touching the wall and got it up to around 1500 before I had to switch. Anxious to find a good place near our new home.

BTW, I was over 65 when I started, so hoping it works for the rest of my life!

Best,

 

[ActionableMango]

How do you teach two Italians to swim?

Tell them get into the pool and talk to each other.

 

[Huntn]

I'm up to 925 yds (I found out the pool is 25 yds across, not meters) in about 27 minutes. This is about a 50% increase from my first ever swim and all of it is freestyle, whereas before I was doing a lot of back and breast, which would keep my head out of the water. So, I'm getting the breathing down. I'm working my way up to more time, adding a minute every few/handful of sessions; I probably swim twice a week, maybe three times if I don't feel like running. Cross training like this has allowed me to exercise 6 days a week feeling good, whereas I couldn't do that just running. I enjoy it a lot...as long as I don't have to wait for a lane.

You may know I am 66 years old. I’m currently swimming 2500 yards (50 laps, 100 lengths) which takes me about 1 hr 15-20 minutes, no stopping. I’m not bragging, but, mentioned it for perspective.

In the last two weeks, I’m trying an experiment, instead of swimming 3 times per week along with some stretching and a brief light weights routine, on Monday I just swim and stretch, on Wed, I swim, stretch,and run through a light series of light weight reps, and on Friday no swimming, but I do an exclusive more in-depth series of light weight reps, that range from 30-50 lb for arms and shoulders, and 70-90 lbs for core exercises on machines. However some of these machines (Matrix brand at the YMCA) when set to 90 lbs, I question if I’m really moving 90lbs.

The point of this experiment? Before when I bumped up against 60 laps (3000 yds), I was running into issues with shoulder, arms, and elbow pains. I ended up pulling back to 30 laps (1500 yds), then worked my way back up. The point is I want to sustain 2500 yards and not have these issues pop up. My impression is that weight training will help your swimming. I am specifically not trying to increase bulk but strength and sustainability.

Another experiment, my swim workouts burn about 500 calories, and you know how easy it is to consume 500 calories? My doctor advised me that a single pound of fat consists of 3500 calories, or something like that, so it makes the challenge of weight loss seem kind of daunting. In this age bracket, it’s tough losing weight, and your diet is a bigger impediment to losing weight, than your exercise.

I am 5’10” and weigh about 220. I recently discovered I could easily skip breakfast, eat a banana with a small bowl of plain Greek yogurt, and have a normal dinner, with a small dessert. I’m hoping that this eventually makes a noticible difference on the scales. The next move will be to skip desert, but i’ve tried dropping sweets in the past multiple times and I’ve always slid backward in that specific area.

Will report back...

 

[tobefirst ⚽️]

An old guy in the lane next to me asked me if I wanted some pointers. He told me, "It looks like you're cupping your hands, like you're digging through sand. Don't do that. You hands should be relaxed with your fingers relaxed, slightly apart." Is he right?