Sorry should have used the multi-quote, I was referring to the original jburrows500 quote....
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Switcher goes back to windows.. but thanks!
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Sorry should have used the multi-quote, I was referring to the original jburrows500 quote....
It sure as hell is. (From prior experience, I edited with Windows for 3-4 years so don't call me a fanboy).
He said he paid $3200 for the Mac Pro. I imagine his thinking was similar to mine. I would never spend $3200 on a machine just to run Windows.
It's hard enough to justify it for a Mac. But, when some really nice PC's are available for $400, it would make more sense to get one of those cheaper machines if you are sure you will never run (or want to run) OS X.
Well, I am definitely no Windows lover. But, I do think that some of those statements are a bit over-stated.
I've got a lot of experience with Windows (having been a service Tech and a license Microsoft OEM) over the years. But, I will concede it takes a while to learn your way around the new Windows Vista. It's a major departure from the previous layout as far as navigation goes.
Not really. Just create a shortcut on your desktop to your main home folder, and you'll essentially have the same thing you do in OS X with the shortcut to the hard drive being on the desktop.
But, yes, if you go through the start menu to computer and then to your folder, it does take more clicks.
That's not much different from anytime I've had to setup a new machine (PC or Mac).
When my new Mac Pro arrived, I had several downloads to install. It all depends on how far you are from the release of the latest major update.
With the Mac Pro, it came with OS X 10.4.10. So, I only had to install updates that were not part of that service pack. In that case, it was about 12 updates for a total of 240 MB.
If I were to re-install OS X 10.4.10 (such as on my G4 Mini) from a retail box such as OS 10.4.0. Then I would have to install significantly more updates on my machine.
I happen to have kept all the updates from 10.4.0 to current for my Mac Mini on my hard drive. A quick look at that folder reveals that I have installed 66 updates / patches (totaling 2.75 Gigabytes) to OS 10.4 to bring it up to date from the retail boxed version of 10.4.3.
So, that's quite a total. Seems that when I installed the updates to Windows Vista from the retail box, that it was only about 200 MB worth of files to download.
Now, it is naturally fewer files to download if you are going from the most recent service pack.
So, for example, once Vista has a service pack out, you'll only need that single update and any updates that arrive after that update.
Likewise, upgrading OS X is a shorter task if you go from the most recent major update (such as the 10.4.10 combo version).
Actually, the only hardware and accessories that I can't find drivers for in Vista won't work in the Intel version of Mac OS X 10.4.x either. So, Vista's compatibility hasn't been an issue for me (except that I can't use these devices unless I hook them up to an older PowerPC Mac or a PC running Windows XP or older).
I've got a lot of experience with Windows (having been a service Tech and a license Microsoft OEM) over the years. But, I will concede it takes a while to learn your way around the new Windows Vista. It's a major departure from the previous layout as far as navigation goes.
Not really. Just create a shortcut on your desktop to your main home folder, and you'll essentially have the same thing you do in OS X with the shortcut to the hard drive being on the desktop.
But, yes, if you go through the start menu to computer and then to your folder, it does take more clicks.
That's not much different from anytime I've had to setup a new machine (PC or Mac).
When my new Mac Pro arrived, I had several downloads to install. It all depends on how far you are from the release of the latest major update.
With the Mac Pro, it came with OS X 10.4.10. So, I only had to install updates that were not part of that service pack. In that case, it was about 12 updates for a total of 240 MB.
If I were to re-install OS X 10.4.10 (such as on my G4 Mini) from a retail box such as OS 10.4.0. Then I would have to install significantly more updates on my machine.
I happen to have kept all the updates from 10.4.0 to current for my Mac Mini on my hard drive. A quick look at that folder reveals that I have installed 66 updates / patches (totaling 2.75 Gigabytes) to OS 10.4 to bring it up to date from the retail boxed version of 10.4.3.
So, that's quite a total. Seems that when I installed the updates to Windows Vista from the retail box, that it was only about 200 MB worth of files to download.
Now, it is naturally fewer files to download if you are going from the most recent service pack.
So, for example, once Vista has a service pack out, you'll only need that single update and any updates that arrive after that update.
Likewise, upgrading OS X is a shorter task if you go from the most recent major update (such as the 10.4.10 combo version).
Actually, the only hardware and accessories that I can't find drivers for in Vista won't work in the Intel version of Mac OS X 10.4.x either. So, Vista's compatibility hasn't been an issue for me (except that I can't use these devices unless I hook them up to an older PowerPC Mac or a PC running Windows XP or older).
I might have been a little upset when I post that.
The fact remains that Microsoft OS is losing out to Apple. I would bet that in Two years Apple will have made major sales from people swithing from PC's.
At our office IT deptment, We are seeing more people using Mac's at home. I think when Apple started using Intel @ Bootcamp the reason to switch became easy.
Thank you for your insight as to some of the pit falls of Mac's. I will still be switching to Mac.
I already started my classes on using the OS and Final Cut 2.
The fact remains that Microsoft OS is losing out to Apple. I would bet that in Two years Apple will have made major sales from people swithing from PC's.
At our office IT deptment, We are seeing more people using Mac's at home. I think when Apple started using Intel @ Bootcamp the reason to switch became easy.
Thank you for your insight as to some of the pit falls of Mac's. I will still be switching to Mac.
I already started my classes on using the OS and Final Cut 2.
I just switched about a month ago. There is a learning curve. I felt disoriented and just out of place at first. Simple things that seem like they should be there aren't, something like MS paint. Slowly I've got the hang of it and I love it. I could never go back. Sorry it didn't work out for you.
No problem
By all means, switch to a Mac. They are great machines
I am primarily a Mac user. But, I do have the occasional need (once or twice a month to use Windows). Over the years, I've moved more and more of my tasks to OS X. And, OS X is my daily environment.
But, I used to make my living by supporting the PC industry and even manufacturing computers for a very elite and demanding sector in the industry (read those that demanded the most reliable hardware and machines that wouldn't crash under any circumstance - Yes, I could make a machine that Windows wouldn't crash on, but it wasn't your basic econobox).
Of course, during that time, I still had several other machines that were not PC's. Some ran versions of the Mac OS, Some ran BeOS, some Linux, some Amiga OS, some CP/M, some operating systems that other's have probably never heard of.
Each machine provided a different aspect of support to the company. And, some were just test beds to assist in supporting companies / individuals with rarer systems. For example, I could test what I was stepping them through as I was explaining it to them via telephone. Or, I could attempt to duplicate the issue they had, and design a fix or work-around.
Anyway, that's the long way of explaining that I do prefer the Mac, but have an extensive history with PC's, Windows, and many other environments.
I try to stay away from saying Windows is garbage, and just go with "I personally prefer the way things are done in OS X". Windows really is an amazing piece of software given all that it must work with. Apple's got a pretty good thing going. Apple only has to support a very small number of hardware configurations by comparison. Microsoft has to try and make something that is reasonably stable on potentially billions of potential configurations with an unpredictable blend of whatever is available at any given time. To me, that is something impressive.
But, I really dislike the way Windows loads tons of programs into memory even when they are not in use. And, I dislike the way programs scatter bits of themselves everywhere. By comparison, Mac OS X only loads a program when you are using it (although there are some exceptions), and an entire program is usually contained in one spot and can be deleted by simply dragging that single package / application to the trash (although there are exceptions).
Like anything, there are some people who prefer the way one OS works over the other. But, for those who don't do more than your basic tasks, any computer will be up to the job (regardless of the Operating System). Realistically, there are many people using new computers that could still do everything they wanted with a computer from the early 90's. For those people, any computer Mac or Windows is more than enough.
When people chose based on criteria other than the cheapest available, they often pick one or the other out of personal preference (or out of need for a specific program or way of doing something).
Those that pick based solely on price are usually the ones who's needs could be met by any computer regardless of which OS it runs. But, of course Windows usually wins based on running the programs they already have and familiarity.
I do completely agree that being able to run Windows is likely helping Apple in sales. People can buy a Mac, and know that if they don't completely fall in love with OS X, that they can just put Windows on it and be right at home. In other words, it eliminates the risk of being stuck with a computer you don't like.
But, of course, in the case of a Mac Pro, you would be hard pressed to justify $3200 to run Windows. Sure, it would be a great Windows box. But, $3200 is a lot in the Windows world. You can get a lot of high-end components in a $500 to $800 PC, and some absolutely amazing stuff if you spend $3200 on a PC that wasn't built by Apple.
But, if you go with an iMac, the cost difference isn't so huge that you would feel like you got taken if you purchased an iMac and then decided that you don't like OS X. You'd just install Windows and have yourself one stylish PC.
I hope you enjoy your classes. You'll surely benefit from the experience of a good teacher
Not that it really matters anymore, but there's an app (built in to the OS) called Automator that will do exactly that (and much more, of course).
I been there too. Working with OS2, OS Warp, DOS 3.0~XP, Unix, Linux, and so on.
I been a network engineer for 10 years. A programmer C C++ VB and a few others for Five. Was even one of the first to understand how using echo on a Novel network could be used as a IM. Man was I right on that one.
Since I have turned to HD Audio/Video Production. I made the switch and Apple is years ahead in that field.
I been a network engineer for 10 years. A programmer C C++ VB and a few others for Five. Was even one of the first to understand how using echo on a Novel network could be used as a IM. Man was I right on that one.
Since I have turned to HD Audio/Video Production. I made the switch and Apple is years ahead in that field.
Yes, Apple definitely has Windows beat on Video production. Sadly, I have not found any Windows program (regardless of how much money you spend) that can touch the video capture quality and DVD production quality of iMovie '06 (yes the old '06 version) and iDVD.
I tried hard with my Windows PC. And, tried every program between $0 and $1500 and couldn't find a Windows program that would perform the video capture through DVD production as well as iLife '06 did. Some came close, but they all had issues of one sort or the other. Usually dropped frames, or weird artifacting, or stuttering frames in the finished DVD.
So, if iLife '06 is that far ahead of the Windows world in Video production quality, then I can only imagine what their pro tools are like.
And, yes, I did literally try every Windows program available at the time (it was about a year and a half ago). I was fortunate that I was able to work out pre-purchase deals with the vendors. So, I didn't lose any money on it. Just many, many months of time wasted experimenting. That's when I just decided to give-up on the thought of doing any video work in Windows. I learned that the Mac was definitely the way to go there.
Of course, if I had never experienced iLife '04 through iLife '06, I would have been more willing to make do with the Windows versions. But, since I had already seen the finished quality from iLife, I was a lot harsher and expected a lot more out of the Windows programs (and sadly none of them lived-up to my expectations for the finished product).
I can live with a bad user interface. But, I can't live with wasted time on a bad end result.
Perhaps in the over $1501 dollar programs I may have found a suitable Windows program. But, in the $1500 and under range, I couldn't. And, I was very exhaustive in my search and trials.
Once I reached the $1500 mark in individual titles, I decided it made no sense to keep looking. I could get a new Mac with iLife for $1500 or less. So, that made more sense.
As for why I was trying to do it with a PC at all? Well, due to a variety of circumstances, I was without a Mac powerful enough to handle the video encoding for about a year. And, I was trying to find a way to get by with a very high-end PC that I had available.
After wasting so much time with the PC, I eventually opted to return all the software (through the previously mentioned pre-arranged agreements), and used the money to get another Mac.
My intent was to use the box for video editing with Final Cut Express as I stated. I did purchase and install Final Cut Express as my post indicated. However, I was using iMovie until my copy of FCE arrived. I later used iMovie to import some non DV. As for iPhoto tell me why it is necessary to spend another 200 on Lightroom or Aperture to get a decent photo manager when Picassa for windows, free by the way, can do 85% of those.. Importing to iPhoto, unlike Lightroom or Picassa for that matter sorts by meta tags and not by assigned file names, in my case, dates. Shall I mention the fact that Quicken for the Mac (another consumer program I guess by your definition) was a disgrace in comparison to the windows version that I had been using for the past 10 years.
My experience with Mac OS X is certainly not shared by those reading this forum.. otherwise they wouldn’t be here.. I understand that. The box is a work of art... for ME, the OS was not something I enjoyed using.
My experience with Mac OS X is certainly not shared by those reading this forum.. otherwise they wouldn’t be here.. I understand that. The box is a work of art... for ME, the OS was not something I enjoyed using.
In iPhoto there's a "Sort Photos" option in the "View" menu, and one of the options is "by Date". Once the option is set, I believe it persists.
While I respect your opinion that OS X just isn't for you, it seems you didn't bother to take any trouble at all to try and LEARN a new OS. You can't expect ANYTHING new to have a zero learning curve. If learning the new OS & associated apps wasn't worth your time, then the Mac certainly wasn't worth your money, but there's a real reason a lot of people DO like OS X---and it's precisely because it's NOT like Windows. Paying three times what you had to for something that's not like Windows, and then complaining essentially that it's not like Windows, doesn't really make much sense.
As for Quicken for Mac, I agree that it's not anywhere near as nice as its Windows counterpart. Everyone agress with that. There are a lot of Windows apps that aren't nearly as nice their Mac counterparts, and none of them played any role whatsoever in my decision last year to switch to Mac.
Batch rename is completely useless, unless you like having a bunch of files with (3) (5)..etc, and who the frick would.
Regular expression renaming, that's where the money's @. Had to make a program in windows to do that, need to find something similar for the mac.
Regular expression renaming, that's where the money's @. Had to make a program in windows to do that, need to find something similar for the mac.
Why don't you just run Xp on your Mac Pro?
Then every once in a while you can dabble in OSX and slowly migrate.
In using Leopard a bit here and there, there are some tweaks that are going to make productivity better.
What ever, I know after spending a year with a G4 I used just for internet and a bit with Logic Pro, even though I had a Sonar PC system running solid.
It reminded me of how I can work in Logic. I was so determined to use OSX I ran an x86 version for 6 months before I finally grabbed a Mac Pro.
My sole decision was to use Logic Pro, I don't really care, but I have to say not thinking about virus's and such a relief.
This Mac Pro is a solid machine, running XP or OS X.
Later
Brian
Then every once in a while you can dabble in OSX and slowly migrate.
In using Leopard a bit here and there, there are some tweaks that are going to make productivity better.
What ever, I know after spending a year with a G4 I used just for internet and a bit with Logic Pro, even though I had a Sonar PC system running solid.
It reminded me of how I can work in Logic. I was so determined to use OSX I ran an x86 version for 6 months before I finally grabbed a Mac Pro.
My sole decision was to use Logic Pro, I don't really care, but I have to say not thinking about virus's and such a relief.
This Mac Pro is a solid machine, running XP or OS X.
Later
Brian
Sometimes its hard to switch. I had been using ColdFusion server now for many many years and I was forced to use a pc for it. I switched to mac and back to pc for years, probably like 5 times. Finally I just decided to abandon coldfusion and use PHP instead on my mac. Best decision ever. The pc just sucks. I still have my Thinkpad for coldfusion stuff that arises but I try to not turn it on. The mac is just a better machine with better OS. There is no way around it.
That said, you could have easily installed bootcamp and used windows on that mac. Its still the best hardware deal for the money I think.
That said, you could have easily installed bootcamp and used windows on that mac. Its still the best hardware deal for the money I think.
Why do people have to lie to get their flawed points across?
Vegas was one of my first purchases, and the one I decided to hang onto after evaluating everything else. Between FCP and it I think the choice is a personal one. The workflow is different, and I decided Vegas suited my needs better. The Apple has a historical advantage in terms of video editing but if you actually evaluate tools available, you'll note that the results possible are now pretty much at parity.
Gee thanks. Calling me a liar is a pretty low shot without all the details.
You see, I mentioned that I was without a Mac powerful enough to perform the task. And, it was for a reason beyond my control at the time.
I had previously had to sell the only Mac I had powerful enough to do the work in order to pay for a surprise financial hit.
But, I had a very capable PC to use. And, when I wanted to get the video work done with the PC, I literally tried everything I could to avoid purchasing a new Mac.
You see, I was going from the perspective of the PC doing everything else I needed just fine. So, I really didn't want to buy another computer just to do the video editing and DVD production. After-all, it wasn't a for-profit deal. I was just doing videos for the family.
So, when the financial situation was resolved, and money available again, I began exploring the options available.
First, and absolutely foremost, was that I was determined to avoid purchasing another computer (Mac or PC). I had no devotion to one side or the other. I just wanted to get the job done using as few machines as possible.
Since I had the PC there (and it's specs were pretty high), I was determined to make it work.
With that in mind, I did try every program available for the PC. By the logic I was using at the time, I was fine paying more for the software if it meant only having one computer that would do everything I wanted. Basically, I only wanted to have one computer on my desk, regardless of which method was more cost effective. And, the PC was already sitting there.
The absolute only thing that mattered was the quality of the finished project.
And, yes, I did try Vegas. I had read a glowing review of it in a video magazine, and it sounded very promising.
Unfortunately, the end result was not satisfactory to me. I am a bit of a perfectionist. Even the slightest stutter, the smallest hiccup in the finished video, the slightest bit of blur in the background, or even some undesired artifacting is enough to make me scrap the entire project.
It has been long enough now, that I cannot specifically remember the single issue that ruled-out Sony's Vegas program. But, rest assured that I did try it, and that I wasn't satisfied with the end result.
At this point in time, it has been long enough, and I tried so many titles, that they all kind of blend together in a blur.
But, I do remember disqualifying two programs that were otherwise perfect because the detail was a bit (and just the slightest) grainy. For example, a playground scene had gravel and wood-chips on the ground. The rest of the video footage was crystal clear. But, the footage that showed the ground had the wood-chips looking like something totally different than wood-chips. It looked more like brown video grain (like a poorly tuned television channel). Just bits of flecks and sparkles.
And, if I remember right, Vegas may have been one of the two programs that produced that effect.
Sure, most people probably wouldn't have caught that. And, who cares about the ground anyway. But, I wanted everything on the finished product to look exactly like it did on the tape.
I spent about 6 months going through all the programs, and trying them all out one at a time. I used the same video footage to attempt to produce the exact same project on each program (capturing it fresh each time from the same camera and tape using whichever program I was testing at the moment). And, after 6 months, all I ended up with was a heavily played tape, and video footage I was tired of looking at, and no finished product worth showing to anyone.
So, after six months of wasted time, I finally gave in. I purchased another Mac, and got back to (productive) video work.
If Vegas works for you, that's great. For me, I saw an imperfection in the finished project. So, I ruled it out (just like I did many other programs).
Anyway, thanks for turning this into mudslinging and name calling. Calling someone a liar is completely uncalled for.
Simple fact, is that I tried all the programs available for the PC because I didn't want to buy another computer. And, in the end, I was so dissatisfied with the results of those programs that I finally chose to buy a new Mac because I couldn't find a program for Windows that would perform the task as flawlessly as iMovie '6 and iDVD would.
Also, as previously mentioned (even in my first post), this was a while ago. The mention that I was without a Mac for about a year indicates that it is at least a year prior. And, in this case it was a bit more than that. So, naturally, I was not speaking of the current program versions. If someone was paying attention, they would catch that I would naturally be referring to all the programs (in whatever version they were in) at the time I was testing it. Naturally, I would not have been testing today's versions.
I'm no Apple FanBoy. If you have read my many posts here and in other many other forums over the last 3 or 4 years (including Apple's Discussion board), you'll find that I have fewer nice things to say about Apple than I do nice things. I just call it as I see it, and admit both strengths and weaknesses. I don't blindly follow one company or the other. I will admit when they are wrong, just as I'll admit when they're right. For example, my PC is still used for my audio production tasks. Sure, there are some great audio editors and remixing tools available for the Mac. But, I like the Windows audio editing tools that I have been using better.
I was offering my experience. And, that's all.
But, hey, if mudslinging and name calling is more fun for you, then go for it.
Did you ever try Ver-Bose? I hear that is supposed to be a great editor but I am guessing you never heard of it.......