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kgarner said:
I think it would be great if OS X implemented this feature from Windows, but maybe make it time based. I don't particularly care how big the Trash Can gets, but I like how Mail will delete emials in the Deleted Items folder that are X days old. For me, it makes more sense to say if I haven't needed if X days/weeks/months then I really don't need it. Both options would be a welcome addition. I may even check out some of these utilities.
You sound like a hopeless Windows user. The Mac is not a version of Windows. Apple's current trash behavior was added as a part of System 7. System 6 trash emptied when you shutdown your computer. The System 7 behavior is excellent. Deleting the trash requires an affirmative decision by the user. When the trash is emptied by menu command, the System 7 through MacOS X 10 default requires the user to verify the command. The verification requirement may be turned off. When emptying trash via the MacOS X 10 Dock, the user must click on the Trash Basket and select Empty Trash from the pop-up menu.

Trash is emptied only at the request of the user. Prior to emptying the Trash, the user may inspect it at any time. I have no sympathy for the children who need to the computer to empty the Trash for them. Disaster Scenario (capacity-based): You inadvertently put the final draft of your research paper in the trash. You deliberately place that 10 minute porn clip in the trash, which triggers your Trash to empty. Now, guess what gets deleted before you can change your mind? Disaster Scenario (time-based): You put the final draft of your term paper in the trash an hour before you leave for Spring Break and a wonderful week at the beach. Half-way through your vacation you realize that its your good copy that's in the Trash. You don't worry because your trash is set to delete files after a week, but you will be home in time for you to retrieve your file. Well, you plane gets delayed. When you start-up your computer, poof goes your paper because it has been in the Trash longer than seven days.

One of Apple's old taglines was "The Power to be Your Best." That means that the Mac places the power in the hands of the user. However, the user must be mature enough to accept the power and smart enough to use it. If you are so lazy that you cannot empty your own Trash, then maybe a Mac is not for you. Be advised that even the most experienced user can make a mistake. One of the features of TechTools Pro is recovery of accidentally deleted files. TechTools Pro moves emptied Trash files to a hidden directory rather than deleting them.
 
I have to say that I agree with the camp that says I put things in the trash that I intend to delete. I don't see any point in just letting lots of files sit in there, if you are going to do that put a folder on your HD somewhere for storage. I for one put things in the trash that are going to be deleted real soon after I finish a round of deletions or I just bypass it altogether and delete them immediately. I guess it's just user philosophy. I've noticed that many Windows users just let the recycle bin overflow with junk and never delete anything along with the usual clutter of icons all over the desktop. On many Mac desktops, you don't see a lot of icons if any at all. Perhaps this is just another example of that diverging philosophy.
 
MisterMe said:
Trash is emptied only at the request of the user. Prior to emptying the Trash, the user may inspect it at any time. I have no sympathy for the children who need to the computer to empty the Trash for them. Disaster Scenario (capacity-based): You inadvertently put the final draft of your research paper in the trash. You deliberately place that 10 minute porn clip in the trash, which triggers your Trash to empty. Now, guess what gets deleted before you can change your mind? Disaster Scenario (time-based): You put the final draft of your term paper in the trash an hour before you leave for Spring Break and a wonderful week at the beach. Half-way through your vacation you realize that its your good copy that's in the Trash. You don't worry because your trash is set to delete files after a week, but you will be home in time for you to retrieve your file. Well, you plane gets delayed. When you start-up your computer, poof goes your paper because it has been in the Trash longer than seven days.

Is it that difficult to understand how this works?!?!
And you aren’t getting how the Windows ‘bin works. First off the bin doesn’t dump all its contents at a given time. It never does this. Its on an per file basis. Your example. The default is 10% of a drive is dedicated to the ‘bin. Lets say you dump your research paper in the bin. Then dump a file that eats all 10% of the bin. Windows will prompt saying the file can not fit in the recycling bin do you want to permanently delete it. You have the option of yet or no. [I’ve experienced this twice in my life with ripping one of my DVD’s. 10% of a 40GB drive. Think about it.] If yes it deletes the video file NOT your paper. And lets say for the sake of argument that it’s exactly 10% of your drive so it fits into the bin. Again it will prompt that its too big because the bin is smart enough to not erase the last item placed in the bin. And the bin will NOT scrub everything that is in there to make room for another honking file. Now sure three weeks, or several GB, later you may run into problems as the oldest items are purged out of that 10% to make way for new items but the point being is that Windows recycle bin gives you two things the Mac bin doesn’t:
1. Flexibility in that I can make it act exactly like a Mac by slider the slider to 100% or not.
2. You don’t have to baby-sit it to make sure you aren’t eating away at your disk space which becomes an issues when a HD becomes filled. Right now on my Tosh laptop I have a 60GB drive and I'm down to less then 4GB of free space left. (I really need to offload those movies.) I made the choice of setting the slider to two percent to keep from hitting that wall.

In my opinion it’s about flexibility. Apple’s method, like many things I’m finding in the OS the more I look at it, is shoved down your throat because its what they think is best. You use a one button mouse because that’s what you’ve used since day one. You used Finder because that’s what you’ve used since day one. You’ve dealt with their methodology surrounding the recycle bin and OS so much that to you its natural. It’s the way it should be for YOU. Have you EVER thought about it from another point of view?
Yah in the end its only a recycle bin but again I’m finding that this way of doing things is pervasive throughout OS X with flexibility coming from 3rd party apps. Which is all well and fine since Windows users get the same flexibility from 3rd party apps as well, but it just seems as if more hacks\3rd party software is required to get the OS the way YOU want it to be in OS X then in Windows. But again like the folks here defending OS X I could be a tad biased since I’ve gone through Windows 3.11, 95, 98, 98SE, NT, 2K, XP, 2003 and my Mac experience consists of a ][e, high school lab use, and the local Apple store. Is it sad when you are on a first name basis with a couple of the reps?
But even then the more I look at OS X the more I think “WTH did they do it that way.” Or “WTF is with you not being able to change that?”
OK its 2AM and I'm babbling. :p
new_sleeping.gif
 
Powerbook G5 said:
I've noticed that many Windows users just let the recycle bin overflow..

That's the beauty of it. It can't overflow. I think I've touched a recycle bin less then 10 times in my years dealing with windows. There is no need to empty it. It maintains itself.



I guess it's just user philosophy.

Yep :cool:
 
I'm not 100 % certain, but I'm pretty sure that OS X asks whether you want to empty the Trash once you get down to a certain amount of HD space free.
 
Geez you guys are a bit off lately.

Whether you agree with how the Trash folder should be used, or whether this option is needed or not, why not give the user the "option" of whether to use this or not. Hell, I empty my trash immediately after I delete something, but my stepfather doesn't. He won't delete anything from that folder, seeing as how he doesn't seem to notice the Recycle Bin in Windows. He goes on the computer and goes straight to the few things he uses: Word, IE (I've loaded Mozilla on there as well, but.... :rolleyes: ), that Picture viewer program, and.....well, that's it!!

The option of using this feature is good. Features are good, even if you don't use them because you're an "advanced" user.
 
ah grasshopper you have much to learn

if you want said functionality (emptying trash on a periodic interval) then you can roll your own using a few unix utilities and cron.

in unix, cron provides a mechanism for scheduling tasks.

there are also other utilities such as find and rm that can accomplish your bidding. find all files with modications greater than X days or X months, etc.

i will give you a hint ...

find ~/.Trash/ \! -mtime -1 | <insert remove command here>

now put that in a bash script and throw it into the crontab and you have a winner.

jarom
 
Just to close the loop on this thread, I found a utility called Compost

http://www.versiontracker.com/dyn/moreinfo/macosx/23510

(Quote)
Product*Description:
Compost is a preference pane and daemon combination that allows each user on a machine to specify time limits and size limits for the contents of their trash. This allows users to break the habit of emptying the trash immediately trying to save space, and regain the ability to recover from the "oops" of tossing a file unintentionally.
(End Quote)

This utility seems to do all I wanted, is a 68kb download and has a registration fee of $5
 
SiliconAddict said:
That's the beauty of it. It can't overflow. I think I've touched a recycle bin less then 10 times in my years dealing with windows. There is no need to empty it. It maintains itself.

while limiting the maximum trash bin size (as found on windows) is a good option to implement - not everyone will use it but some may find it useful, so why not offer it? - but i don't like the idea of trash bin "maintaining" itself.

to have files disappear without your knowledge or acknowledgement is scary. yes, you put files in trash intending to be deleted, but still, the principle of things disappearing from "trash" on its own somehow sounds wrong... once the limit is reached, the user should be prompted that the older files will "really" be deleted..?
 
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