Switching from Mac

Discussion in 'Alternatives to Mac Hardware' started by Isamilis, May 28, 2019.

  1. Isamilis macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2012
    #1
    I have been thinking quite long time to switch from Mac due to its high price. I am avid apple users anyway with 2 iMac, 4 macbook, 6 iphone and ipad. But I am still uncomfortable with Windows:

    - Isn't that annoying to have antivirus that keep watching what you are doing, and ask for updates (only to make them 'smarter' catching the virus)?
    - How reliable is hibernate/sleep in windows? I used windows laptop at my work and it needs to restart once a week after sleep/hibernate/resume during the week.
    - How reliable / comfortable its integration with my phone. I used Notes in laptop and need to get them synced to my phone as I will read/continue writing with my phone
    - PDF reader? Mac has Preview (which is quite good and lite) and PDF Expert (which also quite good, fast and lite). How about windows?
    - Browser? Should I use IE or Ms. Edge (which I still confuse, their difference), or Chrome (with trade-off in battery)? Mac has Safari which will do most of browsing needs efficiently.

    On the other side, I saw many positive on windows:
    - some laptops are built very good, even really good and worth the money (i.e. asus zenbook)
    - windows 10 is now more stable
    - Ms. Office is much more polished than in Mac
    - There are some applications available only on Windows

    Should I switch? or should I wait?
     
  2. LeeW macrumors 6502a

    LeeW

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2017
    Location:
    Glasgow, Scotland
    #2
    Antivirus - are you saying you have none on your Mac? Why? Whilst there is still less chance of harm on a Mac there is still higher than none. macOS cannot protect you from files you download, sites you visit and so on, all of which have risks. Just because you don't see an issue does not mean there isn't one there.

    Hibernate/sleep - No issues that I have experienced, not had to restart for the reasons you state.

    Phone Integration - Not great, not bad. Really depends on what you want integrating?

    PDF reader - PDF Expert, Adobe PDF reader, there are lots. More options than Mac.

    Browser - MS Edge has been quite good, you can use any browser you want, trial and error.
     
  3. maflynn Moderator

    maflynn

    Staff Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 2009
    Location:
    Boston
    #3
    • Antivirus - I use the built in windows antivirus and to be honest, I don't worry much about it. My company has thousands of PCs and they windows Defender as well, and they're incredibly security/antivirus minded. I'm debating if I want to use malwarebytes which works in addition to Windows Defender since its not antivirus but malware protection. I practice safe computing habits, and I did this on the Mac as well as the PC, i.e., don't download apps you don't know about, don't visit sketchy sites (adult, warez, etc)
    • Sleep - I've probably had more sleep/hibernate issues on my macs then on my PCs. As a matter of preference, I choosee not to put my laptops into sleep/hibernation most of the time, it doesn't matter if its PC or Mac. My Thinkpad had no issues but I've turned that off at this point
    • Integration - this is where the Mac excels at, because Apple produces both, however they also have iCloud for windows and you can share your notes, contacts email etc etc. There's also Microsoft's OneNote that has a lot of features and is cross platform.
    • PDF - I don't know why MS has been slow to build in PDF capabilities, their office suite supports it, their OS should. You can use Adobe's acrobat reader which is free, though I don't have a suggestion for editing. I'd probably be interested in hearing advice on a decent pdf editor.
    • Browser - I'm partial to Chrome, its cross platform, I have all my passwords and I'm happy with it. Edge is now running the Chromium engine, I may take a look at that but I'm generally happy with Chrome.


    Ahhh, with all the said and done, that's the big question. There will be a learning curve, especially if you don't use or haven't used windows in a long time. If the high price is the only motivator, then have you thought about the used market for Macs or slowing down your upgrades and buy a mac less often. I like what we have available in terms of choice and selection on the PC side, but its an investment of time and effort with windows. I've said this often, if I opted for the MBP that is configured as I have my Thinkpad, it would cost me 4,600 which is ridiculous, where as (thanks to discounts), I only paid 2,286. Many laptops in the PC world are fully ugradable and typically have better hardware then Macs

    We can't answer should you switch, its a personal decision but if you don't try you'll never know
     
  4. c0ppo macrumors 65816

    c0ppo

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2013
    #4
    Just use what comes default with W10, Windows defender. Unless you are downloading cracked apps and visiting obscure sites, I see no need for AV solution of any kind.

    TBH, not nearly as good as on Mac. But not terrible as well, and not a deal breaker. At least not to me.

    I'm on Android since I can't stand dumbification of iOS, and nobody uses iMessage in my country anyway. I can easily sync notes, calendars and SMS messages with my W10/Linux.

    On Mac I've used Safari and Vivaldi. On W10/Linux I use Vivaldi. But there are ton more options out there, from Firefox to Opera. I do think that Edge will be great as well once MS finishes it.

    Staying on mac platform has some compromises. Switching has some as well. You just have to pick your poison and live with it :)
     
  5. SDColorado Contributor

    SDColorado

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2011
    Location:
    Highlands Ranch, CO
    #5
    1) Antivirus: As others have suggested I find Windows Defender does the job. It is integrated, seems to be light on resources and works in the background. Unless you are purposely placing yourself in a high-risk situation, it should be all you need. Defender seems even better than before in version 1903

    2)Hibernate/Sleep: Like the others, I have had no problems/issues with my computer and Hibernate/Sleep

    3) Phone Integration: Is limited if you still plan to use an iPhone as I do. I understand it is at least somewhat better for Android phones, but since I don't own one, I don't really know :)

    4) PDF Reader: I use and like Wondershare PDF Element. It isn't the cheapest option at $69.95, nor is as expensive as Nuance Power PDF ($149). For a lower cost, there is also Soda PDF ($29). I have no experience with Soda. I understand it is fairly good, but not as feature rich as the others. Understandable for the cost. I *believe* PDF Element might be the most like Preview. There are also some lower cost or free options like PDF Escape, but again I have no experience with them.

    5) Browser: I like Vivaldi and have also been using the new Chrome-based developer's version of Edge.
     
  6. skaertus macrumors 68040

    skaertus

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2009
    Location:
    Brazil
    #6
    I use both Windows PCs and Macs. Macs are very well built, and are beautiful and graceful machines. But I feel PCs are more practical in getting the job done.

    - I do not think antivirus is a problem at all. You have to be careful, or at least to not be stupid, to avoid getting viruses. And you should have at least a free decent antivirus software. Not annoying at all.
    - As for reliability in hibernating an sleeping, it is OK, I do not restart my PCs for weeks and sometimes months. And even if I do, it is very fast do restart. However, I sense that Windows laptops consume more battery than MacBooks when sleeping.
    - Integration with the phone is OK and may be even good. It all depends on whether you use the same software on the phone and on Windows. Of course, you should not expect the same degree of integration that you may have between a Mac and an iPhone; this is top-notch and nothing comes close. This kind of integration is what makes the Apple experience so pleasant and do not expect this. But you can sync your apps in the phone and on Windows to keep writing the same text.
    - Adobe Reader is just fine, and you have other alternatives as well. If you want, you may have other very good options as well, and you will probably be better served than on a Mac.
    - Browsing the Internet is just fine with Edge or Chrome, or other software. When using a Mac, I tend to use Safari. I think Chrome for Windows is better than the Mac version. On Windows, I use either Edge or Chrome, and I do not miss Safari at all. All of them are good enough, and there is little difference, to be honest. Any will do.

    As for your perceived advantages on Windows:

    - MacBooks are very well built, and it is difficult to find something similar in the Windows world. Still, there are plenty of good laptops that run Windows. You have to be careful and do your research, as they tend to be less polished than Macs. But there are cheaper options and you can always find a laptop which is up-to-date with the latest tech. Lots of options.
    - Windows 10 is great, an so is macOS. Both have their advantages, but both are excellent operating systems at this point. You should not be concerned with Windows stability. It is stable.
    - Microsoft Office is far better on Windows than on macOS, and has more applications and more features, apart from being faster and more stable. Office for macOS does the job, but Office for Windows is perhaps the best suite of applications ever written. Office integrates with Windows as the iPhone integrates with the Mac. No contest here.
    - There are applications available for Windows only, for macOS only, and for both. Windows tend to have the heavyweights, as more than 90% of the people in the world use this operating system. And also, software which is available for both systems, tend to be better on Windows, also because of that. There are some very good independent software for macOS, though, as competition from the big firms is lower in this platform. To sum it up, Windows has more software available than macOS, especially if you need specific applications. It should be expected, as Windows is far more used.

    I hope this helps. Both platforms are great, but I tend to the Windows side more.
     
  7. derekamoss macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2002
    Location:
    Houston, TX
    #7
    If you are just a little bit intelligent when it comes to safe online browsing, Windows Defender will be all you need. It has a low profile on system resources and very unintrusive.
     
  8. raccoontail macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2007
    #8
    I've been using Apple computers since the IIC. They've always been priced at a premium but are also usually the most innovative computers you can buy. The Powerbook 500 series introduced the trackpad. The lampshade iMac G4 was incredibly functional and unlike anything else in the market. I can't say that's the case right now - I'd be hard pressed to recommend an iMac over the Lenovo Yoga A940 which has a 27" adjustable touch screen and built-in wireless phone charger. Even if you don't draw, it's just fun to use, and Windows 10 has narrowed the stability gap vs. macOS.
     
  9. pika2000 macrumors 601

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2007
    #9
    No need to switch if you don't feel like it. There are plenty of cheap Windows laptop to get your feet wet instead of switching right away.

    Having said that:
    - With the default Windows defender and Auto windows update, you don't have to worry about anti virus updating anymore. It's all done in the background. Just make sure you uninstall any crapware like McAffee stuff out.
    - It's getting more reliable, especially on devices with SSD. One thing I do miss is that depending on the machine, many don't automatically wake up when you open the lid like a Macbook. I do still find sleep mode in Windows still taking a toll of battery, more than macOS.
    - iPhone integration out of the box, forget about it. You have to rely either Microsoft services (via OneNote) or Google's (via Keep). Both are available on iOS.
    - This is what I hate about Windows. Handling PDF, even in 2019, is still piss poor. You still need to install a 3rd party app as the default Edge reader cannot even do typed annotation (Microsoft assumes everybody uses a pen on a Surface device). You have to either use Adobe's reader or some alternative. None of them beats Preview. Preview on macOS is just miles ahead.
    - Browsers selections are a non-issue. I use Brave on my Windows machine. Fast, built-in ad blocker, Chromium based. MS Edge is going webkit anyway.

    - Careful on those laptops that seemingly looking "good." Often times, they are good for display, but not for real life use. There's a reason why the business/enterprise laptops look "dated," because they tend to be more reliable in use vs the flashy consumer versions.
    - Yes, Windows 10 is stable (even Windows 8 imo is awesome). However, in the end, you're still being affected by 3rd party and OEM drivers and software, which can bring a Windows machine into an unstable mess. Just make sure you uninstall them. Problem is, many OEMs intentionally force you to use their software if you want to update the laptop's firmware.
    - MS Office are great on both platforms. MS has been focusing a lot in feature parity between Office for Windows and Macs. You do have the Windows only Access and Publisher.
    - Yes, there are apps that are only available on Windows, but the opposite is true also. For example, I still cannot find a good MP3/AAC encoding frontend alternative on Windows that is as simple and great as XLD on the Mac.
     
  10. StarShot macrumors 6502a

    StarShot

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2014
    #10
    Adios...
     
  11. derekamoss macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2002
    Location:
    Houston, TX
    #11
    Microsoft edge is not going webkit at all. It's using chromium.
     
  12. pika2000 macrumors 601

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2007
    #12
    Well, semantics I guess. :D Chromium was forked from WebKit. Regardless, the point was that the concern for web browsers on Windows is non existent.
     
  13. TSE macrumors 68030

    TSE

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2007
    Location:
    St. Paul, Minnesota
    #13
    I would say if you are happy with Mac hardware and software and the only reason you are considering switching is price, go with Mac. It’s a safe bet for you and the extra money you pay is worth it. Switching platforms does have a learning curve and it’s not a guarantee that you’ll like it. So say you save $600. Is saving $600 worth being stuck using a tool you don’t enjoy for 5 years?

    Right now is a great time to buy a Mac as the re-engineered cooling system in the MacBook Pros is amazing and the new keyboards feel much more like a normal keyboard.
     
  14. derekamoss, Jun 10, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2019

    derekamoss macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2002
    Location:
    Houston, TX
    #14
    Saving $600 dollars to some is a huge deal why spend 1200 on a mac when a 600 dollar laptop with pretty much the same or better specs is available. There was a time when the Apple premium was worth it and even then it was never a $600 dollar premium. The first computers with intel from apple were only priced MAYBE $300 dollars more and at that time they were getting early intel processors. Any premium is hard to justify right now the keyboard failures in laptops. If we justify a $600 dollar premium we might as well justify a $1000 display stand....

    There really is no justification at all for any Apple premium at this point. They don't even try to justify it anymore, $1000 dollar smartphone? It doesnt cost them anymore to make than it did when they were making the iPhone 4. Think about if they had tried selling that at $1000. Hell the new iPhones are probably cheaper to manufacturer than the original iPhone was.
     
  15. maflynn Moderator

    maflynn

    Staff Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 2009
    Location:
    Boston
    #15
    Macs have always been 600+ more expensive then PCs and yes, I do believe they were worth it (keyword is were). For one thing, you'd recoup a larger percentage of the purchase price on selling it years down the road. You also got many many years out of the laptop - I have a 2012 MBP still going strong. Its my kids now and it holds up well. That's a 7 year old computer at this stage. Apple's customer support is industry leading, so you're getting that premium experience as well.

    I do believe some things have changed and we're not getting the same value for our money and apple has been raising the price beyond what is considered apple expensive (so to speak)

    The cooling is amazing, it seems that its done mostly through OS undervolting That's not a knock, just mentioning how they're doing it. If you run windows on the mac, it will not have the same level of performance/coolness.


    As for the keyboard, I really hope this iteration puts the keyboard issues to bed for MBP owners.
     
  16. pika2000 macrumors 601

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2007
    #16
    Do let us know an example of a $600 laptop having the same or better spec than a $1200 macbook. Oh, and that laptop better also have warranty that is valid worldwide in markets where Apple has official presence. I know some laptops do, but they are not $600. :p
     
  17. slayerizer macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2012
    #17

    PDF: by default their 'PDF' and ebook reader is Edge. You can also open them with Chrome if your prefer. No separate PDF reader required.

    Integration: On a purely technical level I prefer Onedrive over iCloud. You have web versions of onenote,word,excel,outlook,powerpoint.
     
  18. derekamoss macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2002
    Location:
    Houston, TX
    #18
    Here is a link to an HP for $600 with some of the specs are better even.
    Intel® Core™ i5-8265U (1.6 GHz base frequency, up to 3.9 GHz with Intel® Turbo Boost Technology, 6 MB cache, 4 cores)
    8 GB DDR4-2400 SDRAM (1 x 8 GB)
    Intel® UHD Graphics 620
    128 GB M.2 SSD
    15.6" diagonal HD SVA BrightView micro-edge WLED-backlit touch screen (1366 x 768)
    1 USB 3.1 Gen 1 Type-C™ (Data Transfer Only, 5 Gb/s signaling rate); 2 USB 3.1 Gen 1 Type-A (Data Transfer Only); 1 RJ-45; 1 AC smart pin; 1 HDMI; 1 headphone/microphone combo
    AND HAS AN SD CARD READER

    The Display might not be as nice but its a 15 inch which might be a plus to a lot, but thats really the only downgrade.

    Also you can upgrade the ram and ssd yourself....

    https://support.hp.com/us-en/document/c06268344
     
  19. TSE macrumors 68030

    TSE

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2007
    Location:
    St. Paul, Minnesota
    #19
    Dynamic undervolting integrated into the OS alongside better thermal solution - the story of Apple. Great software to overcome hardware engineering obstacles. The 2019 models are now cooler than a lot of the thin-and-light performance notebooks on the PC side. It's just a shame that Apple is sticking with AMD so strongly - but I can also see why too with nvidia playing hardball as well. The only people who lose out there are the consumers. A GTX 1660 or RTX 2060 in the MacBook Pro would create a lot of additional sales - but the Vega chips are acceptable.

    And yes, I do hope that Apple figured that keyboard out. I still think it's a band-aid and they will come to their senses with the release of an entirely new design. The touchbar has to go as well. It's an absolute zero with no excitement or usefulness.
    --- Post Merged, Jun 11, 2019 at 12:22 PM ---
    That's simply not true, as the OP stated it very clearly: He loves MacOS and Apple hardware. For most people and most situations, I would say save money and go PC. I even fit that bill this year and switched to the XPS 15 which I'm most happy with. But this guy's situation stood out to me. There is a learning curve in learning Windows, there isn't a guarantee that he will like Windows, or the PC hardware it comes on, and honestly, I have a gut feeling that even if he is somewhat happy with his PC, he will always feel a "what if?" in terms of if he should have purchased his Mac or not.

    As my boss would tell customers who were considering going to other, cheaper contractors who lowballed the customer," If you think my work is expensive, wait until you figure out the cost of going the cheap route."
     
  20. derekamoss, Jun 11, 2019 at 12:29 PM
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2019 at 12:37 PM

    derekamoss macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2002
    Location:
    Houston, TX
    #20
    I am not saying he should switch to Windows. If he is comfortable with MacOS and wants to stay, great. I just literally meant there is n justification to the premium anymore since Windows hardware has caught up in quality and Mac's selling now are still the same price with outdated hardware. (That's why there is no justification)

    The only time the Apple premium was really justified was when the hardware was well superior to windows pc's, it included new things like built in wifi card and back then easy upgradable HD and RAM, and when OS X was far ahead of Windows in reliability and also when the included free software was better than anything PC wise. (iLife when it was free) iMovie, iPhoto, iTunes and iDVD were way superior and user friendly than anything PC wise.

    I might have paid a 600 dollar premium then, but now.... there should be no premium....
     
  21. TSE macrumors 68030

    TSE

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2007
    Location:
    St. Paul, Minnesota
    #21
    I see where you are coming from, but it’s always been this way. Apple has never had the best hardware. They make their profits by selling cheaper hardware components through great design and software. PC manufacturers and Microsoft have closed that gap, but it’s still there.
     
  22. derekamoss macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2002
    Location:
    Houston, TX
    #22
    Still there, but it used to be a no brainier.

    The only time the Apple premium was really justified was when the hardware was well superior to windows pc's, it included new things like built in wifi card and back then easy upgradable HD and RAM, and when OS X was far ahead of Windows in reliability and also when the included free software was better than anything PC wise. (iLife when it was free) iMovie, iPhoto, iTunes and iDVD were way superior and user friendly than anything PC wise.

    I might have paid a 600 dollar premium then, but now.... there should be no premium....
     
  23. TSE macrumors 68030

    TSE

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2007
    Location:
    St. Paul, Minnesota
    #23
    You are absolutely right. For most people, the $600 premium isn't justified. It's like how for most people, a Toyota would serve their purposes much better than the Lexus.... but there are people, like OP, who I would recommend the Lexus for.
     
  24. derekamoss macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2002
    Location:
    Houston, TX
    #24
    or a Tesla...........!!!!! LoL, now their is a premium I wish I could afford!
    OP also has to look if the premium would burden his finances for the foreseeable future but judging from the amount of Apple Products, I don't think would be an issue lol.
     
  25. pika2000 macrumors 601

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2007
    #25
    That screen res. Are you kidding? And you can claim that’s the same or better spec?
    Try again.
     

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