I just had the EXACT SAME issue.... Genius got manager and he said she's gonna tell u same thing. But where it went south was manager came and my wife asked who does she report directly to so she can take issue up with them and this chic told her TIM COOK .... Wife didn't know who he was but I did so at that point I got involved cause her and genius was kinda giggling when she said it. But long story short.... It got real ugly in the store and manager saw that I was really upset about their position so she gave her a new battery. But I did email Tim cook and express my disgust in the Lehigh valley pa store. I finally got a reply back from the regional person. But yea it's a fight to get a battery. Wife had just brought this battery 5 months ago. No way in hell should it be swollen for just Che king emails and web surfing.
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Swollen batteries not covered...
- Thread starter evanmav
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That's different though - 5 months and light use would indicate a faulty battery. 3 years and 900 cycles is just EOL.
AppleCare does cover it. On my old 15inch MBP, I was a couple months out of AppleCare. The store didn't care, but I called AppleCare and just nicely told them that the macbook wouldn't even stand flat on a table because of the battery. It had about 400 cycles on it.
They first denied my request, but I asked for the manager and nicely explained that I've spent a significant amount of money at Apple this year and they overnighted me a new battery
They first denied my request, but I asked for the manager and nicely explained that I've spent a significant amount of money at Apple this year and they overnighted me a new battery
http://www.apple.com/batteries/notebooks.html
"The built-in battery of your MacBook Pro or MacBook Air is designed to deliver up to 1000 full charge and discharge cycles before it reaches 80 percent of its original capacity. In addition, Adaptive Charging reduces the wear and tear on the battery giving it a lifespan of up to 5 years."
So exactly where has the OP used up his battery? The above doesn't say that the battery will be dead at 1000 cycles and make the laptop unusable even before reaching that number. I'm with the OP here, I think the battery is within normal use margins and should be considered defective since it's dying prematurely.
"The built-in battery of your MacBook Pro or MacBook Air is designed to deliver up to 1000 full charge and discharge cycles before it reaches 80 percent of its original capacity. In addition, Adaptive Charging reduces the wear and tear on the battery giving it a lifespan of up to 5 years."
So exactly where has the OP used up his battery? The above doesn't say that the battery will be dead at 1000 cycles and make the laptop unusable even before reaching that number. I'm with the OP here, I think the battery is within normal use margins and should be considered defective since it's dying prematurely.
I'd call Applecare and argue with them. Swelling is not a common issue with batteries. It seems to be more common in macbook pros. Warranty periods on batteries are often much more limited than other parts of the machine, but in this case it's significantly impacting your use. Without a battery installed it would throttle. It's ridiculous that they would claim not to warranty damage to other parts of the system. If you take it out now, your trackpad may go back to normal. It could require some tightening, but it's not necessarily dead. I would just push them on this one.
I just reviewed your link, and it doesn't even contain any of the official Apple support links on this issue. It's not really normal. As you indirectly stated, battery warranties often come with limitations. The user should not however be responsible for fixing this. Any damage to the rest of the system is 100% on Apple. I've never found any exclusion to this in their battery support pages. I don't feel like digging up links right now, but perhaps I'll edit this later. They place limits on how long/how many cycles they'll warranty batteries, yet there is no exclusion for resulting damage. In the worst possible case, Apple should still open it up, remove the battery, and check that everything else is within spec.
Err...swelling is a result or indication of end of life? Yeah, I don't think so...
It's one thing if the battery no longer has a charge and it's a totally different thing if it starts warping or swelling. Seeing how OP has AppleCare, I don't see how this would be a problem getting it swapped. If he didn't have AppleCare, I'd understand Apple turning him down but AppleCare + seriously defective battery = swap no questions asked (As a former AppleCare rep, I've done these swaps without any problems)
OP, I would call AppleCare and if the first rep can't help you, ask to be transferred to a specialist or Tier 2, they will help you for sure.
If a battery ever gets swollen or warped, more times than none, the customer always gets a free battery replacement simply due to safety reasons.
It's one thing if the battery no longer has a charge and it's a totally different thing if it starts warping or swelling. Seeing how OP has AppleCare, I don't see how this would be a problem getting it swapped. If he didn't have AppleCare, I'd understand Apple turning him down but AppleCare + seriously defective battery = swap no questions asked (As a former AppleCare rep, I've done these swaps without any problems)
OP, I would call AppleCare and if the first rep can't help you, ask to be transferred to a specialist or Tier 2, they will help you for sure.
If a battery ever gets swollen or warped, more times than none, the customer always gets a free battery replacement simply due to safety reasons.
The battery swelling is not a defect given the age and cycle count.
The trackpad is probably not damaged. As the battery swells it pushes against the bottom of the track pad. This reduces the distance the trackpad can travel until there isn't enough room to click.
Apple care does not cover a battery that has reached end of life (such as this one).
When your warning lights come on (car, computer, toaster oven, etc..) you should: (1) figure out what is wrong (2) research the consequences of not fixing it (3) make an informed decision.
I am sorry that the Apple "Genius" and Manager did not listen to you. That is unfortunate and you have every right to be unhappy about that. You can contact apple customer relations and tell them about your problem.
But you also didn't seem to listen to them: the swollen battery is causing the malfunction in the trackpad. They could put a brand new track pad in your Mac, but it will have the same problem until you replace (or remove) the battery.
Good luck.
The trackpad is probably not damaged. As the battery swells it pushes against the bottom of the track pad. This reduces the distance the trackpad can travel until there isn't enough room to click.
Apple care does not cover a battery that has reached end of life (such as this one).
When your warning lights come on (car, computer, toaster oven, etc..) you should: (1) figure out what is wrong (2) research the consequences of not fixing it (3) make an informed decision.
I am sorry that the Apple "Genius" and Manager did not listen to you. That is unfortunate and you have every right to be unhappy about that. You can contact apple customer relations and tell them about your problem.
But you also didn't seem to listen to them: the swollen battery is causing the malfunction in the trackpad. They could put a brand new track pad in your Mac, but it will have the same problem until you replace (or remove) the battery.
Good luck.
Similar story here. Bad macbook air charger had separated and wiring was showing. Called applecare, they said I need to visit an apple store to get the replacement, according to him, it was a common issue. Went to an apple store, person greeting people to make appointments told me he would NOT make an appointment for me because the issue is not covered by applecare and is my fault. He told me I was using the charger incorrectly (as in plugging it in wrong). Long story short, met with manager, manager explained nicely that he believed it was accidental damage but because the phone people gave me an expectation of coming out of that store with a new charger, he honored it. Moral: geniuses arent all evil .
Back to OP,
What does you being in college have anything to do with the manager talking down at you? Many of the employees at apple retail stores are students themselves. Don't see the relevance here.
If by listen you mean honor your request for the battery replacement, then you are correct, they didn't listen. Otherwise, im sure they listened, you just didnt get what you wanted.
I also notice you use the word "honestly" frequently in your post, just an observation.
Your battery has 905 cycles which is a lot. Your battery is swelling, which is a sign of old age at this point. Apple is not responsible for the replacement of your battery because it probably gave you a "service" warning long ago and you ignored it. Your battery can function up to 1000 cycles, up to.. Nonetheless, I think OP will get the battery replaced for free and the trackpad repaired/adjusted.
.Back to OP,
What does you being in college have anything to do with the manager talking down at you? Many of the employees at apple retail stores are students themselves. Don't see the relevance here.
If by listen you mean honor your request for the battery replacement, then you are correct, they didn't listen. Otherwise, im sure they listened, you just didnt get what you wanted.
I also notice you use the word "honestly" frequently in your post, just an observation
.Your battery has 905 cycles which is a lot. Your battery is swelling, which is a sign of old age at this point. Apple is not responsible for the replacement of your battery because it probably gave you a "service" warning long ago and you ignored it. Your battery can function up to 1000 cycles, up to.. Nonetheless, I think OP will get the battery replaced for free and the trackpad repaired/adjusted.
In the link someone posted above it says this
"Be aware that your battery doesn't stop working if the health drops below 80% or if you exceed the number of cycles listed here. You can still use a battery with 79% or lower health or 1001+ cycles, as long as it still holds a charge. If you have a battery that has failed to meet its expected lifespan, assuming your battery is properly calibrated (for those models that need calibration), you may have a defective battery. If so, contact AppleCare to see if they will replace it."
My battery cycle now is currently 907 and using coconut battery I had 72% then calibrated it last night and it now shows 75%. So my battery actually has also failed to meet to requirements that apple has stated the battery should reach AND on top of that it is swelling. I've actually been too nervous to go to the apple store again, im afraid the same exact conversation will ensue. But im gonna try again hopefully tomorrow we'll see I only have limited time before I go back to college so I really need to do this again soon. Definitely gonna print out the information from apples website that says that.
And to the poster above I actually realized this the other day that when I post online I say honestly a lot and have tried recently to stop but I guess some habits are hard to break. And I believe that a lot of the times Adults treat college/high school kids with less respect because we are not fully independent or completely mature yet I'm not sure but I've been to stores before where I haven't gotten the full support I wished for. And to go on a little further I believe she wasn't listening to me because after I would make a point she wouldn't even touch on what I said but just go on to tell me that the battery was done and used up. Maybe the convo wasn't as bad as I thought it was since I was frustrated and mad at the time things weren't going my way but I definitely know that I for sure was not treated 100% with respect. Just the comments like just buy a mouse or telling me the car tire analogy were not comments you would say.
One more thing for everyone keep telling me I neglected the service battery warning. I go to college where there aren't many apple stores in the area, closest an hour and 30 minutes away. I don't have a car and so when i saw the warning I just thought it was telling me more so that I should be expecting to get worse battery life since the battery is diminishing. I didn't realize it was like the check engine on a car, now I know this. I just really had no way of getting to an apple store hence why I went right when i got home from college and the holidays were over.
"Be aware that your battery doesn't stop working if the health drops below 80% or if you exceed the number of cycles listed here. You can still use a battery with 79% or lower health or 1001+ cycles, as long as it still holds a charge. If you have a battery that has failed to meet its expected lifespan, assuming your battery is properly calibrated (for those models that need calibration), you may have a defective battery. If so, contact AppleCare to see if they will replace it."
My battery cycle now is currently 907 and using coconut battery I had 72% then calibrated it last night and it now shows 75%. So my battery actually has also failed to meet to requirements that apple has stated the battery should reach AND on top of that it is swelling. I've actually been too nervous to go to the apple store again, im afraid the same exact conversation will ensue. But im gonna try again hopefully tomorrow we'll see I only have limited time before I go back to college so I really need to do this again soon. Definitely gonna print out the information from apples website that says that.
And to the poster above I actually realized this the other day that when I post online I say honestly a lot and have tried recently to stop but I guess some habits are hard to break
. And I believe that a lot of the times Adults treat college/high school kids with less respect because we are not fully independent or completely mature yet I'm not sure but I've been to stores before where I haven't gotten the full support I wished for. And to go on a little further I believe she wasn't listening to me because after I would make a point she wouldn't even touch on what I said but just go on to tell me that the battery was done and used up. Maybe the convo wasn't as bad as I thought it was since I was frustrated and mad at the time things weren't going my way but I definitely know that I for sure was not treated 100% with respect. Just the comments like just buy a mouse or telling me the car tire analogy were not comments you would say.One more thing for everyone keep telling me I neglected the service battery warning. I go to college where there aren't many apple stores in the area, closest an hour and 30 minutes away. I don't have a car and so when i saw the warning I just thought it was telling me more so that I should be expecting to get worse battery life since the battery is diminishing. I didn't realize it was like the check engine on a car, now I know this. I just really had no way of getting to an apple store hence why I went right when i got home from college and the holidays were over.
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This has happened.
Yes OP, this has happened to me and many people as well if you look it up online, many, many people have also made videos to show their expanding batteries.
Which year and model is your mac? Mine was the 2006 17" MBP, I've had 2 of them from this year because the battery expanded after 1 and a half year, one genius replaced it out right with a new battery, that new battery expanded in less than 1 year, another genius wouldn't replace it but agreed to replace a whole new 17"MBP. That battery expanded in less than 1 year, but one very dear genius continues to offer me free batteries at my local store, but she suggested I could remove the battery and just use the power supply, only use the battery when I absolutely must. So that battery is still in good condition but I exclusively run that MBP off power supply and it is just great in terms of performance, no difference, as if new still.
It is the supplier of the battery to blame, I think it was Sony? I may be wrong? It technically isn't a manufactures defect as they'll justify in so many, many words at the store. But what ever, battery shouldn't just expand like that, luckily it doesn't actually 'blow up' on your lap.. Like the competitors right? *Wink - nudge*
Bring it in to a proper recycling place, I framed mine up on the wall and created an art piece out of it, a friend came by for dinner and she purchased it recently.
Be more creative than them - good luck !
Yes OP, this has happened to me and many people as well if you look it up online, many, many people have also made videos to show their expanding batteries.
Which year and model is your mac? Mine was the 2006 17" MBP, I've had 2 of them from this year because the battery expanded after 1 and a half year, one genius replaced it out right with a new battery, that new battery expanded in less than 1 year, another genius wouldn't replace it but agreed to replace a whole new 17"MBP. That battery expanded in less than 1 year, but one very dear genius continues to offer me free batteries at my local store, but she suggested I could remove the battery and just use the power supply, only use the battery when I absolutely must. So that battery is still in good condition but I exclusively run that MBP off power supply and it is just great in terms of performance, no difference, as if new still.
It is the supplier of the battery to blame, I think it was Sony? I may be wrong? It technically isn't a manufactures defect as they'll justify in so many, many words at the store. But what ever, battery shouldn't just expand like that, luckily it doesn't actually 'blow up' on your lap.. Like the competitors right? *Wink - nudge*
Bring it in to a proper recycling place, I framed mine up on the wall and created an art piece out of it, a friend came by for dinner and she purchased it recently.
Be more creative than them - good luck !
In the link someone posted above it says this
"Be aware that your battery doesn't stop working if the health drops below 80% or if you exceed the number of cycles listed here. You can still use a battery with 79% or lower health or 1001+ cycles, as long as it still holds a charge. If you have a battery that has failed to meet its expected lifespan, assuming your battery is properly calibrated (for those models that need calibration), you may have a defective battery. If so, contact AppleCare to see if they will replace it."
My battery cycle now is currently 907 and using coconut battery I had 72% then calibrated it last night and it now shows 75%. So my battery actually has also failed to meet to requirements that apple has stated the battery should reach AND on top of that it is swelling. I've actually been too nervous to go to the apple store again, im afraid the same exact conversation will ensue. But im gonna try again hopefully tomorrow we'll see I only have limited time before I go back to college so I really need to do this again soon. Definitely gonna print out the information from apples website that says that.
And to the poster above I actually realized this the other day that when I post online I say honestly a lot and have tried recently to stop but I guess some habits are hard to break
One more thing for everyone keep telling me I neglected the service battery warning. I go to college where there aren't many apple stores in the area, closest an hour and 30 minutes away. I don't have a car and so when i saw the warning I just thought it was telling me more so that I should be expecting to get worse battery life since the battery is diminishing. I didn't realize it was like the check engine on a car, now I know this. I just really had no way of getting to an apple store hence why I went right when i got home from college and the holidays were over.
You will see that it's rated for "up to" 1000 cycles. Dude, your battery is exhausted, just buy a new one.
The battery swells up as a safety feature to prevent an explosion if it detects any inconsistencies towards the end of it's life. Would you prefer that it didn't have this, you can continue using it, and it then blew your balls off? No. So just buy a new one.
Some of the responses are filled with arrogance on here, and others just downright ignorant.
As has been highlighted several times, the OP has not in any way reached the useful advertised limit of the battery. It is therefore defective and should be replaced free of charge.
As has been highlighted several times, the OP has not in any way reached the useful advertised limit of the battery. It is therefore defective and should be replaced free of charge.
It's rated for "Up to 1000 cycles" in "Up to 5 years". That's at an average of 200/year. If you use it faster, it will wear quicker. Therefore >900 in < 3 years is perfectly acceptable, and means the battery is end of life.
Also, 1000 is an estimate - Apple at no point guarantees battery life, and the warranty states "AppleCare Protection Plan for notebook computers does not cover batteries that have failed or are exhibiting diminished capacity except when the failure or diminished capacity is the result of a manufacturing defect.". If there was a manufacturing defect it wouldn't have lasted 3 years, and wouldn't have done 900 cycles.
Pipe down lad. Why is it that in any other aspect of life people are not so entitled, because Apple offers good customer service, people want more and more. At this rate, even apple will be forced to become more mean. Why do you think Brownson was hired in the first place? The battery is spent. Sure it shouldn't really expand. But replace the damn thing as you should and if there is any other damage, I am sure Apple will take care of it as per terms and conditions of Applecare. If OP changed the battery himself it'd cost him $50 tops and if I was him I'd do it ASAP to give himself some headroom in his AppleCare to fix any remaining problems...
The built-in batteries in the newer Mac unibody notebooks come pre-calibrated and do not require regular calibration like the removable batteries in older Apple notebooks.
Lad? Pipe down and read the thread again. His battery is covered under warranty as per Apple's own terms and conditions.
Think before typing, next time.
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I guess you missed the part where the 1000 cycles should only diminish the battery capacity by 20%. 1000 cycles does not represent the full life of the battery, but rather its ability to hold a full charge.
But thanks for proving my point with exactly the sort of attitude I was referring to.
Actually, you're wrong.
http://www.apple.com/batteries/replacements.html
Specifically: "However, the AppleCare Protection Plan for notebook computers does not cover batteries that have failed or are exhibiting diminished capacity except when the failure or diminished capacity is the result of a manufacturing defect."
Definitely something not right there. I got my MBP in the first weekend the 2010 models got released in April, so I have had it longer than you have had yours and my battery is at 364 cycles.
You've stumbled upon one of the reason Apple is one of the only companies to use LiPo batteries in their notebooks. LiPo's are superior in nearly every way, they hold a massive charge, they last longer (more cycles) than any other type of battery, etc. etc.
BUT, when they fail, they swell. This is a property of the battery. Apple is willing to sacrifice this for better performance. Right? Wrong? Well, you DID buy it. Other companies that use LiPos put them inside thick plastic enclosures to prevent them from swelling. But that reduces the size of the battery, and thus the lifespan (a principle reason the new MBP batteries are not easily removable, Apple wanted the bare cell in the notebooks case in order to have the best possibly battery life). Again, right or wrong, no comment. But it is the compromise Apple decided to make in the design. Me personally? I'll take it. I'll replace the battery when it's time for the same reason I'm willing to take the downsides of the LiPo/Case-less battery... I want to be able to use my computer for several hours without being plugged in.
Personally, I suppose they should have made sure the trackpad was working under Apple Care. However, this IS normal behavior for a dying LiPo battery, and is not 'defective'
It's unfortunate they were rude. Usually they are pretty good to me, but occasionally I get a snarky comment from them.
Hope it all works out for you, but, no, a swelling LiPo is not unexpected.
Again, it's a characteristic of a LiPo battery. Older Li-Ion batteries gradually lost charge over time until they were done for. LiPo batteries lose only a small chunk of their charge (20% in this case) over their lifespan, and that lifespan is much much longer. However, once they hit the end, it's over. So, yes, a LiPo will go from 80% charge, to 0 just like that. Contrastly, when the LiPo is approaching 80%, a Li-Ion battery is already gone. Occasionally you'll hear people describe LiPo cells as "They either work or they don't", and that's basically true. There is SOME loss of charge over time, but ultimately, not very much. They tend to hold most of their charge for most of their life, and then just fail all at once. It's just a characteristic of how they work.
We use them in R/C planes all the time. I fly mostly gas but I have a few small electrics that run LiPo cells. We test them frequently because once they hit 80~85% of their capacity, chances are, they are going to suddenly fail (like, run for 45 seconds then die, as opposed to 15 minutes the flight before). However, compared to previous battery technologies, they last much much longer, hold more of a charge, and don't have a memory effect (they can be charged or discharged from any point). So it's definitely a preferred technology by far, you just have to realize that it doesn't work like the older batteries you're used to.
BUT, when they fail, they swell. This is a property of the battery. Apple is willing to sacrifice this for better performance. Right? Wrong? Well, you DID buy it. Other companies that use LiPos put them inside thick plastic enclosures to prevent them from swelling. But that reduces the size of the battery, and thus the lifespan (a principle reason the new MBP batteries are not easily removable, Apple wanted the bare cell in the notebooks case in order to have the best possibly battery life). Again, right or wrong, no comment. But it is the compromise Apple decided to make in the design. Me personally? I'll take it. I'll replace the battery when it's time for the same reason I'm willing to take the downsides of the LiPo/Case-less battery... I want to be able to use my computer for several hours without being plugged in.
Personally, I suppose they should have made sure the trackpad was working under Apple Care. However, this IS normal behavior for a dying LiPo battery, and is not 'defective'
It's unfortunate they were rude. Usually they are pretty good to me, but occasionally I get a snarky comment from them.
Hope it all works out for you, but, no, a swelling LiPo is not unexpected.
Again, it's a characteristic of a LiPo battery. Older Li-Ion batteries gradually lost charge over time until they were done for. LiPo batteries lose only a small chunk of their charge (20% in this case) over their lifespan, and that lifespan is much much longer. However, once they hit the end, it's over. So, yes, a LiPo will go from 80% charge, to 0 just like that. Contrastly, when the LiPo is approaching 80%, a Li-Ion battery is already gone. Occasionally you'll hear people describe LiPo cells as "They either work or they don't", and that's basically true. There is SOME loss of charge over time, but ultimately, not very much. They tend to hold most of their charge for most of their life, and then just fail all at once. It's just a characteristic of how they work.
We use them in R/C planes all the time. I fly mostly gas but I have a few small electrics that run LiPo cells. We test them frequently because once they hit 80~85% of their capacity, chances are, they are going to suddenly fail (like, run for 45 seconds then die, as opposed to 15 minutes the flight before). However, compared to previous battery technologies, they last much much longer, hold more of a charge, and don't have a memory effect (they can be charged or discharged from any point). So it's definitely a preferred technology by far, you just have to realize that it doesn't work like the older batteries you're used to.
Actually, I'm not.
Your link and quote doesn't take away from the advertised expected performance of the OPs battery. It should 100% be replaced free of charge to the customer.
No. Believe me I have first hand experience with Apple's battery policy. Applecare doesn't cover batteries unless there's a manufacturing defect. If there was a manufacturing defect, then it would have failed much sooner.
If you can link me to a page where Apple guarantees battery life, then sure, I'll "pipe down" and lose my "arrogant" attitude. But I know, full well, that such a page doesn't exist. A battery that fails after 900 cycles is exhausted, not failed.
Er, yes.
I'm not going to link you to a page that has already been both linked and quoted. Apple's website clearly states that notebook batteries should still hold 80% of their original capacity AFTER 1000 cycles.
I really don't see what is so difficult to understand.
It's either false and misleading advertising, or it's a simple warranty repair. Apple can't have it both ways.
Should. Not will. And how is it false advertising? His battery did, quite clearly hold up to 80% of its charge, up to 1000 cycles, up to 5 years. The link stated doesn't guarantee anything. The reason you wont link me to it is because you know, full well, that it doesn't exist.
As I have explained, if you use a battery quicker, it will not last as long. So it is perfectly normal and expected for a battery to die after 3 years and 900 cycles (show me another laptop that would be able to achieve that).
He's not entitled to a free battery. If he had used a nicer attitude in store then he may have got one as goodwill, but if that didn't work, then he's just going to have to buy a new one. Arguing on a forum isn't going to change that.
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