Synchrony in FC 7.0.1

[WoOdPiPeS]

Hi all,
I'm experimenting a rare behavior when importing the wav bso of a project. It gets out of synchrony from start to end..., but growing up; of course is not like when you move the audio of a clip... no, no, starts with a bit out of synchrony and ends with much more out of synchrony.
I tell you. After finnishing the video edition, I export only the video to a file, for the bso composer. He works in Cubase 5.1. He imports the video file, and works on the bso. Then, when he finnish the music and ambient he exports the bso as a stereo file that I import to FC again. Then is when we see that is out of synchrony. Not too big at the start, and really noticeable at the end.

We never had this problem before,... I don't know what to do...

Could you help me?

Thanks in advance,


P.

 

[spinnerlys]

I think you mean "synchronicity", don't you?

Have you checked if the timeline settings in FCP correspond with the audio file's sample rate (44100Hz or 48000Hz or maybe even 32000Hz) before import and rendering and in the timeline?

 

[WoOdPiPeS]

I think you mean "synchronicity", don't you?

Have you checked if the timeline settings in FCP correspond with the audio file's sample rate (44100Hz or 48000Hz or maybe even 32000Hz) before import and rendering and in the timeline?

Sorry, but I'm from Spain... my English is crap :S
Yes, audio settings are correct. But it wasn't would never be a behavior like this. Use to be an equal out of synchronicity from start to end. By eg. If settings are 44.1khz and the bso is 48khz, then the bso woud be faster (and shorter) than the original when played on a 44.1khz project.

Really don't know what to do? Weeks ago we did another project, with no problems,...

Thanks,...


P.

 

[WoOdPiPeS]

Finally I've tested on a different audio software (Soundtrack), and I've noticed that video and audio plays perfect. Conclusion, it's a FC issue.
It seems like audio and video are running at different speed in Final Cut...
any idea???


Thanks a lot

P.

 

[spinnerlys]

Sorry, but I'm from Spain... my English is crap :S
Yes, audio settings are correct. But it wasn't would never be a behavior like this. Use to be an equal out of synchronicity from start to end. By eg. If settings are 44.1khz and the bso is 48khz, then the bso woud be faster (and shorter) than the original when played on a 44.1khz project.

Really don't know what to do? Weeks ago we did another project, with no problems,...

Thanks,...


P.

Finally I've tested on a different audio software (Soundtrack), and I've noticed that video and audio plays perfect. Conclusion, it's a FC issue.
It seems like audio and video are running at different speed in Final Cut...
any idea???


Thanks a lot

P.

Have you tried with a new FCP timeline and other settings? Or even making a new project, just to test it?

So I assume, the one audio file has the same sample rate as the FCP timeline? Is that correct?

What are the lengths of the sequence and the audio file, down to the frames (viewable in the bin where you put them)?

 

[WoOdPiPeS]

Have you tried with a new FCP timeline and other settings? Or even making a new project, just to test it?

So I assume, the one audio file has the same sample rate as the FCP timeline? Is that correct?

What are the lengths of the sequence and the audio file, down to the frames (viewable in the bin where you put them)?

Yes, I've tried a new project, importing just the video and the bso track (the same ones that works in Cubase and Soundtrack), and happens again.
Yes, audio file has the same sample rate as the FPC timeline.
The bso is a few seconds shorter than the timeline, but that is because at the end of the time line, there are some "credits" without any sound.
I have to say, that the video and audio must be sync due they start both in 00:00:00 ... you know? it doesn't matter that the bso is shorter or bigger... in my opinion.

Excuse my grammar and expression, please.


P.

 

[spinnerlys]

Yes, I've tried a new project, importing just the video and the bso track (the same ones that works in Cubase and Soundtrack), and happens again.
Yes, audio file has the same sample rate as the FPC timeline.
The bso is a few seconds shorter than the timeline, but that is because at the end of the time line, there are some "credits" without any sound.
I have to say, that the video and audio must be sync due they start both in 00:00:00 ... you know? it doesn't matter that the bso is shorter or bigger... in my opinion.

Excuse my grammar and expression, please.


P.

Can you tell me what this "bso" is?

Also, having the audio being shorter than the video must result in a-synchronicity (if both audio and video contain the same information, meaning the audio at the end of the audio clip is the one that should be at the end of the video clip(s).

And having both clips start at 00:00:00:00 means nothing, as almost any new clip or sequence starts at this timecode, unless the timecode was changed to represent the time it was recorded (like 16:25:30:23 for a recording that was started at 16:25 and 25 seconds) or the timecode was changed to represent the number of tapes (eg. 01:23:12:21 for tape one, 05:03:32:11 for tape five).

But when the duration of both clips is not the same (one has 00:23:22:01 and the other has 00:23:02:24, instead of both having 00:23:22:01 for example), than it will result in a-synchronicity.

The following image is an example for a multi-cam edit bin, which shows the duration column (here there are no clips with the same duration, just to show you which column I mean).

I hope that clears something up, or maybe I misunderstand. We'll see.

 

[WoOdPiPeS]

Can you tell me what this "bso" is?

Also, having the audio being shorter than the video must result in a-synchronicity (if both audio and video contain the same information, meaning the audio at the end of the audio clip is the one that should be at the end of the video clip(s).

And having both clips start at 00:00:00:00 means nothing, as almost any new clip or sequence starts at this timecode, unless the timecode was changed to represent the time it was recorded (like 16:25:30:23 for a recording that was started at 16:25 and 25 seconds) or the timecode was changed to represent the number of tapes (eg. 01:23:12:21 for tape one, 05:03:32:11 for tape five).

But when the duration of both clips is not the same (one has 00:23:22:01 and the other has 00:23:02:24, instead of both having 00:23:22:01 for example), than it will result in a-synchronicity.

The following image is an example for a multi-cam edit bin, which shows the duration column (here there are no clips with the same duration, just to show you which column I mean).

I hope that clears something up, or maybe I misunderstand. We'll see.

Sorry, "bso" is original soundtrack (but in spanish...)
I'll try to be more clear. Sorry, and thanks for your effort in trying to understand what's happening to me.
I tell you the way that we work.
When the video edition, I export it as a .mov file. Imagine that the total time is 17:10:00.
The musician, who's working in Cubase, just import that .mov file to his application in order to compose the music, inserting ambiences,... The video starts on 00:00:00 and ends at 17:10:00 at Cubase's timeline. So, the final soundtrack (that will be exported as a .wav/.aiff file) will have an equal lenght to the video lenght (not neccesary, because music can stop before the end of the video).
Ok, so, back to FC, I import the soundtrack file to the timeline, starting at 00:00:00, and when play, I can see that on the first minutes there is not difference, or very slight... but is getting bigger, and bigger. Cleary there is a big sync audio-video difference on the last minutes of the timeline.

Am I clearer? sometimes language is a barrier!

Something is wrong in the last FC update. We've got fixed some problems, but some where added... I think.


Hope you can help me,

P.

 

[spinnerlys]

Sorry, "bso" is original soundtrack (but in spanish...)
....

Am I clearer? sometimes language is a barrier!

..

Hope you can help me,

P.

So what does stand BSO stand for in Spanish? Just out of curiosity. French has something like this I think, Bande du Originale or so.

And yes, now you're clearer.

Just one small think I would still like to know.
Is the duration of the edited music/soundtrack the same as the sequence, I mean when it does start at the same time (00:00:00:00), but gets slightly out of synch, then there must be something wrong.
So does the audio clip end at the same time as the video clip?

Video: ________________________________________________
Audio: ________________________________________________


Or is it different:

Video: ________________________________________________
Audio: ______________________________________________


And does the a-synchronicity start abruptly, or more linearly.


Video: 00:00:02:00 - 00:00:12:00 - 00:00:22:00 - 00:00:32:00 - 00:00:42:00 - 00:00:52:00 - ....

Audio: 00:00:02:00 - 00:00:12:00 - 00:00:22:10 - 00:00:32:10 - 00:00:42:10 - 00:00:52:10 - ....

or

Video: 00:00:02:00 - 00:00:12:00 - 00:00:22:00 - 00:00:32:00 - 00:00:42:00 - 00:00:52:00 - ....

Audio: 00:00:02:00 - 00:00:12:05 - 00:00:22:10 - 00:00:32:15 - 00:00:42:20 - 00:00:53:00 - ....



I got no more ideas right now, except I could give it a try with the media, or maybe Lethal Wolfe or bigbossbomb will show up and add something of their knowledge, as I'm more fluent on Avid.

 

[WoOdPiPeS]

So what does stand BSO stand for in Spanish? Just out of curiosity. French has something like this I think, Bande du Originale or so.

And yes, now you're clearer.

Just one small think I would still like to know.
Is the duration of the edited music/soundtrack the same as the sequence, I mean when it does start at the same time (00:00:00:00), but gets slightly out of synch, then there must be something wrong.
So does the audio clip end at the same time as the video clip?

Video: ________________________________________________
Audio: ________________________________________________


Or is it different:

Video: ________________________________________________
Audio: ______________________________________________


And does the a-synchronicity start abruptly, or more linearly.


Video: 00:00:02:00 - 00:00:12:00 - 00:00:22:00 - 00:00:32:00 - 00:00:42:00 - 00:00:52:00 - ....

Audio: 00:00:02:00 - 00:00:12:00 - 00:00:22:10 - 00:00:32:10 - 00:00:42:10 - 00:00:52:10 - ....

or

Video: 00:00:02:00 - 00:00:12:00 - 00:00:22:00 - 00:00:32:00 - 00:00:42:00 - 00:00:52:00 - ....

Audio: 00:00:02:00 - 00:00:12:05 - 00:00:22:10 - 00:00:32:15 - 00:00:42:20 - 00:00:53:00 - ....



I got no more ideas right now, except I could give it a try with the media, or maybe Lethal Wolfe or bigbossbomb will show up and add something of their knowledge, as I'm more fluent on Avid.

Hi,
BSO= Banda Sonora Original ;-)
About your examples: For the first example, answer #2. And for the second example (a-sync...) answer #2.

I'm really burnt. My brain says STOP for today (I've been here, trying to fix this, for the last 9hours!!!) Go to bed,... if somebody from the states (you're awake) can helpl, I'll read it in the morning.
Good night,

P.

 

[spinnerlys]

Hi,
BSO= Banda Sonora Original ;-)
About your examples: For the first example, answer #2. And for the second example (a-sync...) answer #2.

I'm really burnt. My brain says STOP for today (I've been here, trying to fix this, for the last 9hours!!!) Go to bed,... if somebody from the states (you're awake) can helpl, I'll read it in the morning.
Good night,

P.

Thanks for BSO, should have thought of that, had Latin for some years.

I'm not from the states, even more eastern from you (Berlin), but I work at nights, so I can still give you one answer, if that is one. Okay, I'm a little fuzzy too.

As you seem to indicate by answering my two examples, is that the audio clip is not the same length as the video and degrades in synchronicity over time. Therefore I assume, that the sample rate, or even the bit rate, are not the same on both the video (okay, there is no sample and bit rate for video like there is one for audio), better timeline and the audio.
So somehow in the process of getting the BSO back from your composer/sound editor, the sample rates have been mixed up. Or FCP is Foxed up.

If the timeline uses 44.1KHz and the audio is 44.1KHz too, you could try changing the sample rate of the audio clip to 48KHz and see if that clip gets out of synch.

Could you take a screenshot of the bin window in FCP with the video clip, audio clip and timeline in that window, and all the settings/characteristics (duration, codec, sample rate, resolution, .....) that appear there?

You can do screen shots via CMD+SHIFT+1, CMD+SHIFT+2, CMD+SHIFT+3 and CMD+SHIFT+4. It is saved as a .png file on the desktop. You could then use Flickr or Imageshack or whatever www service you have to host it. Maybe even Rapidshare.

Have a good night.

 

[WoOdPiPeS]

Hey there,
It seems Final Cut works different than audio applications (Cubase, Soundtrack, Logic, Protools...). I just did a new audio mixdown, setting the right locator at the end of the video track. Music doesn't end just when the video ends, but I did a try anyway... and worked!
I don't know if this makes any sense, but if you know about this, I'd like to hear it.

Thanks a lot,


P.