slughead said:
to be fair, and I'm no huge Jobs fan, he only makes a $1 a year. The billions come for options that he only can exercise if certian company milestones are met ... so every few years lately.
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
T minus 12 hours Until My DP2.5 is canceled
- Thread starter slughead
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
- Status
to be fair, and I'm no huge Jobs fan, he only makes a $1 a year. The billions come for options that he only can exercise if certian company milestones are met ... so every few years lately.
morkintosh said:
Well aren't you special: situations that you've never encountered are not possible.
Hey slughead:
You said in earlier posts that you "made a mistake" and you "shouldn't have" signed the contract without having the necessary tools. And several others have jumped on you for doing so. Some even saying that you were unethical to do so.
Bull.
You made a business decision based upon a calculated gamble that you could acquire the required tools prior to the start of the job. Small businesses in all professions have to make that kind of gamble every day. It takes large amounts of liquidity to purchase expensive tools on the speculation that you'll be able to bid on larger contracts that require the upgraded equipment. And very few small businesses have that kind of liquidity.
It was neither a mistake nor an ethical lapse for you to do what you did. I'm sorry for you that the gamble didn't pay off but the fact that you were willing to make the gamble shows you have the necessary attitude to make a go of your business. "Nothing ventured, nothing gained" may be a cliche, but it is also true. The only mistake you can make here would be in learning the wrong lesson from this situation.
I've noticed that people who aren't willing to make these kinds of calculated gambles usually work for those who are.
morkintosh said:
And yet another post proving my point once again.
Can you believe this kid? Another person who thinks his workload is the reference point for the rest of humanity for he never "encountered a system that is small enough that one guy can do it with a new computer but is so complex as to require a dual G5 2.5." Yup, the reference for workload for the rest of us is the basis on your workload. Wake up!
And do watch your language. It's your pathetic way of arguing and vulagarity that brings you down to the pack of animals. So don't let us level with you. You want to argue, go ahead. But don't ever include immature arguments with words as "f@cking" to this crowd.
Anyway, I have come to realize based on responses from this thread that not everyone will ever understand that the real business world operates on risk. If you fail, you fail. Move on and learn. But what amazes me is how people who haven't a clue about this kind of workflow will call you names, push you down and laugh at your failure for the what you did. There are employers and employees. Only those who understand the former will ever become one. The rest will just move on and band together and form all kinds of arguments seen above.
Thanks kant, that's very reassuring.
I'm relatively new to this game (about 3 years into it), thanks to everyone for giving me direction and suggestions.
I'll try to turn this around by taking on smaller projects for stranger companies, maybe form more relationships and get another big contract by the end of this quarter.
Freelancing is cool, but it comes with a great deal of responsibility and stress. I wouldn't recommend it for most people, but for some of us, we couldn't have it any other way.
*Neil Young's "keep on rockin' in the free world" comes on*
I'm relatively new to this game (about 3 years into it), thanks to everyone for giving me direction and suggestions.
I'll try to turn this around by taking on smaller projects for stranger companies, maybe form more relationships and get another big contract by the end of this quarter.
Freelancing is cool, but it comes with a great deal of responsibility and stress. I wouldn't recommend it for most people, but for some of us, we couldn't have it any other way.
*Neil Young's "keep on rockin' in the free world" comes on*
kant said:
I'm not saying that there aren't any, I am just saying that I "think" they might be rare given both my profession and my degrees thats all; let the reader draw his/her own conclusions.
And as far as jumping him for business decisions, that is not at all what I (and some others) are doing. I for one understand why he would be angry, but call it what it is; he is mad he doesn't get a new toy when he wants/thinks he should have it. Don't blame Apple, the contracting agency and everyone else under the sun.
LeonPro said:
it's not my personal workload that I am using as a reference point, but every system that I've ever studied or taught courses on (yes I am old enough to teach). Software systems are RARELY (but sometimes possible I admit) so complex that they need the kind of horse power that we are talking about yet are simple enough that a single developer can work on them.
Since I teach as well I will let the teacher in me give some advice: pick up a few books on software engineering and/or complex software engagements; The Mythical Man Month is a good starting point.
morkintosh said:
Since you are a teacher, you of all people should have the ability to listen, understand and read. Read my posts, please. I, of all people here in this thread, has been very understanding of the requirements of a computer in one's own field.
This is just for you in layman's terms since you may have been too caught up in programming language - people are different. Yes, they are. Really. They have different computer requirements. Others for word processing and email, others for gaming, others who make the games, others who create software applications, etc. You get the point. If they are satisfied with the amount of processing power, then good. Others who need more to do more, then good. Do I have to ridicule either one of them?
So what about "The Mythical Man Month" by Brooks should I read about that I haven't already read in 1998? So I can understand a work of a software engineer? As a former programmer in high school, I read stuff. What else would you attempt to recommend to me? "Rapid Development", "The Pragmatic Programmer" or perhaps "Software Project Survival Guide".
So what about it? You wanted me to understand YOUR kind of work, which I don't refute. That the book discusses about software engineers and how they can come to realize about managing the projects, the people and the respective environment/scenario. This book is for software engineers who have been "promoted" to be software architects - the manager of the project. This book is for you alright as it talks about the humanity in management of software projects. Re-read it as I think YOU haven't absorbed it.
So once again, your reasoning is flawed and futile to the thread. We are NOT talking about your work. No one is rebutting that software systems are not complex. No one is rebutting that your line of work could be a little bit more complex. But we are not talking about you. We are talking about OTHER people's line of work that could use a little more processing power. Not yours. So until you can get out of your reasoning around YOURSELF, try to imagine other kinds of work.
Instead of recommending a book to read, try this on your computer so you will understand my line of work. Obtain an uncompressed 8-bit video file sourced from SD and just play around with it. Apply effects, some titles. Lets see how much render time it takes in a G5 2.0 before you can view a few seconds of the clip. Try FCP4HD. Toss it in Shake or, heck, even AE6.5 and apply a few more filters. Try even viewing the file in AE without waiting for RAM preview. I'm not talking about your home user's DV codec. I'm not even talking about HDV or DVCPro HD. Those are for consumers/prosumers. I'm talking about a file size of 160GB of space is worth 2 hours, when that same file space could fit 12 hours of your average DV. And I'm not talking about editing in iMovie or Final Cut Express, because they don't have the capability to input, output or play those kinds of files.
Once again, I totally respect every person's work and if they are happy with what their current CPU can give then that's great. But if that's the only basis of comparison for this argument, then the argument is pointless. So please, before you go on teaching us. Teach yourself that there are other works outside besides yours.
Apple and delays.... thoughts.
To be honest, that's what I thought too... Just cancel the order and go pick up a dual 2.0Ghz system locally someplace. Problem solved, more or less, plus you have instant gratification.
I've bought every Mac system I ever purchased locally, because frankly - when I spend that kind of money on a computer, I don't want UPS or FedEx throwing it around - getting something screwed up, and me being the first person to notice it. At least when they ship to stores, the store can weed out damaged boxes and deal with returns, so you don't have to.
That said though, the guy has a valid complaint. It's one that's so common, in fact, it's practically a sick joke amongst all Mac users! When Apple announces a new product, it's almost a given it'll experience delays and you won't see it for at least 1-3 months after they tell you they're building it.
In the case of the 2.5Ghz G5's, more than in any other previous case, I think it really is more a matter of IBM not producing what they promised/agreed to. Apple may really have their hands tied on this -- but it wouldn't be so bad if they didn't do this so often before.
Apple has an awful lot of "liquid capital" (EG. cash on hand) that they could invest in such things as better initial R&D, or maybe more in-house production facilities. They choose not to though. I can envision plenty of financial reasons they might not want to - but all the recalls and quality issues make one wonder if that's still the best move?
Surely, with some more initial quality assurance testing and/or R&D, someone would have caught the "white spots" issue on Powerbook displays? Someone would have realized there were some latch problems on 15" Powerbooks. Maybe they would have even redesigned things to prevent the aluminum cases from warping when they get hot? I would have also thought quality testers would give a big "thumbs down" to the chrome back of the iPods - due to it scratching too easily. (Heck, the little tag sewn in the back of Apple's standard belt-clip iPod case even puts marks on them after a while!)
To be honest, that's what I thought too... Just cancel the order and go pick up a dual 2.0Ghz system locally someplace. Problem solved, more or less, plus you have instant gratification.
I've bought every Mac system I ever purchased locally, because frankly - when I spend that kind of money on a computer, I don't want UPS or FedEx throwing it around - getting something screwed up, and me being the first person to notice it. At least when they ship to stores, the store can weed out damaged boxes and deal with returns, so you don't have to.
That said though, the guy has a valid complaint. It's one that's so common, in fact, it's practically a sick joke amongst all Mac users! When Apple announces a new product, it's almost a given it'll experience delays and you won't see it for at least 1-3 months after they tell you they're building it.
In the case of the 2.5Ghz G5's, more than in any other previous case, I think it really is more a matter of IBM not producing what they promised/agreed to. Apple may really have their hands tied on this -- but it wouldn't be so bad if they didn't do this so often before.
Apple has an awful lot of "liquid capital" (EG. cash on hand) that they could invest in such things as better initial R&D, or maybe more in-house production facilities. They choose not to though. I can envision plenty of financial reasons they might not want to - but all the recalls and quality issues make one wonder if that's still the best move?
Surely, with some more initial quality assurance testing and/or R&D, someone would have caught the "white spots" issue on Powerbook displays? Someone would have realized there were some latch problems on 15" Powerbooks. Maybe they would have even redesigned things to prevent the aluminum cases from warping when they get hot? I would have also thought quality testers would give a big "thumbs down" to the chrome back of the iPods - due to it scratching too easily. (Heck, the little tag sewn in the back of Apple's standard belt-clip iPod case even puts marks on them after a while!)
LeeTom said:
LeonPro said:
You completely miss the point here, I'm not saying anything about MY work, I am speaking in very general terms. You seem to get very defensive about the work you do and people being critical of what they consider to be bad business practice (although I'm not saying that what happened here was that).
As to your examples about video compression; I haven't worked in that medium it is true, so I looked at Apples own benchmarks (from the Film and Video Virtuoso section), the 2.5 G5 is much faster than the 2.0 G5, 15% so above baseline. So lets do some VERY raw math that just gives a quick and by no means truly scientific example:
I'll pretend that it takes 30min to render that file you are referring to at the baseline (I concede that I may have this way off). The G5 2.0 is 13% faster than the base line, so on a dual 2.0 it will take around 26min. Since this dual 2.5 is 28% faster than the base line it will take about 24min to do the same file; we save 2 whole minutes. Lets scale it up just a wee bit and do a file that takes 5 hours at baseline, the dual 2.0 gets it done in about 4 and 1/2 hours where the dual 2.5 does it in around 3 and 3/4. That is a little bit faster, enought so that it would make having that dual 2.5 very much worth having.
It seems I was mistaken about the need for horsepower. I will say through, that if it means killing a contract I'd wait the extra 45min on a slower computer doing the rendering rather than not get paid.
You seem to be fairly well versed in software engineering books, so I'll recommend something else that I think you could benefit from a lot more. Try checking out this title, I think you will find it most useful.
As an Amazon Associate, MacRumors earns a commission from qualifying purchases made through links in this post.
morkintosh said:
Okay, to lighten up a bit in my replies. I'm actually glad you found from your theoretical calculations that the difference between a 2.0 and a 2.5 will shave hours. I re-checked the benchmark in Apple's page. Remember those are theoretical calculations that only accounts for render time. In the real-world scenario, there will have to be multiple render times to accommodate for changes dictated by clients. A contract doesn't last 45 minutes or an hour. A project lasts from days to months. You work in multiple programs and with multiple teams - visual effects artists, composers, matte painters, etc. And that doesn't account for render times in other apps that isn't optimized by Apple. So in the real world, the waiting time is not 45 minutes for a contract.
Actually, I just had to take the defensive stance simply because when people ridicule other people regarding how much processing power they need without being in their shoes it's just annoying to argue by first making them understand why. Especially at the end of the day, it would be nice to accept mulitple clients per day just by shaving minutes and hours of our time. It's like a visit to a doctor's office. You wait in line as he tenders to other patients. If he can "process" their case faster, then he can get the next one. And how much do they pay for a visit? My last visit was USD150 and it only took me 15 minutes of his time.
Lastly, thanks for another book recommendation. I haven't read that one because I never heard about it, "Facing Codependence: What It Is, Where It Comes From, How It Sabotages Our Lives." I'm a very happy married man with a relationship for 8 years already. I have a very healthy relationship with my friends and family. And I frequently handle calls between them as mediator when there are misunderstandings simply because they know I can look at the situation BEFORE making any judgement on them, their actions. They treat me as their shrink and I've grown to accept it. Your book recommendations humor me. I didn't know whether to get offended or humored, but it was so off that it really had to make me laugh. So thanks for the change in pace, thanks for trying to understand other people's situation. Rather than say the book should be re-read by you, I will end by saying nothing in hopes that our civil agreement of other people's requirement for processing power does differ and faster may (I won't attempt to argue anymore if I say WILL) in fact matter.
As an Amazon Associate, MacRumors earns a commission from qualifying purchases made through links in this post.
LeonPro said:
well you really should, that entire last diatribe justifying your actions and attempting to make your self feel (or be?) OK solidifies my opinion that you should seek professional help with your co-dependence. Perhaps you should consider some group therapy as well, clearly your relationship with your spouse and fiends is enabling this disturbing behavior.
morkintosh said:
Can you believe this guy? You're really unbelievable. The way you try to reason and judge other people is so stupendously stupid, it's humorous. First you reason that YOUR work justifies everyone's requirement for a computer. Then you do an about turn and say, you're not comparing your work.
[Do you even know how to read what you wrote? If you need a book recommendation try this for you,
"How to Read Slowly: Reading for Comprehension by James W. Sire".
I looked it up at Borders just for you.]
And then you try to wiggle your way out of the thread by hitting instead on MY character and that my relationship is disturbing behavior. Huh? Why are you even trying so hard. Just because I have a healthy relationship with my friends and family AND YOU DON'T, doesn't mean I am the one with the disturbing behavior.
My diatribe justifying mself to make me feel OK? Ha ha ha. I don't need to argue to feel okay. My diatribe is especially made for people like you.
Really. Who in hell argues like this guy? Uh, I have a book to recommend you to understand my living. Uh, I have this other book to recommend you regarding your relationship. Uh, since you haven't read it you should since you are disturbing. What a freaking nerd! Ha ha ha!
You crack me up. This person, really has to be stopped. He argues by trying to attack you personally.
Look in the mirror and check out your forehead, you will see a big "L". What a LOSER.
I gave you a peace offering in my last post but you refuse and try to attack me even more by getting out of the topic and judging me this time. My advice, stop your arguments before you start to stutter and shake in embarassment. Your posts only serve to shame yourself.
- Status