T-Mobile to Restrict Unlimited Customers Using Up to 2,000 GB of Data Per Month

[_Refurbished_]

A fantastic debate. And this is the first thing I get.

Then, talking about unlimited, I suggest T-Mobile use such "400GB of mobile data, and 7GB of tethered data per month with only $80!". Would it be better?

By the way, I still use highly limited mobile data plan (3.5GB per month and $10 per GB outside allowance). I am currently happy with it, but I hope ISP could provide more in the same price tag, since downloading a couple of apps and making long time video call could exceed data in an accelerated speed.

That wouldn't make sense because the 400GB portion is, in fact, unlimited. T-Mobile should advertise that as being unlimited, because it is. The portion that we're discussing is the 7GB portion of their marketing. People are abusing the 7GB hot spot data, not their unlimited smartphone data.

 

[SteveW928]

Another "read the TOS" argument, so tired

Well, that and when the big print says 'Unlimited Data' there shouldn't be something contradictory in the little print. If you're giving me 7 GB of data, then say 7 GB Data Plan, not Unlimited. (Which, BTW, I'd be over-thrilled with up here in Canada where 1 GB of data costs an arm and a couple of legs.)

 

[legioxi]

Well, that and when the big print says 'Unlimited Data' there shouldn't be something contradictory in the little print. If you're giving me 7 GB of data, then say 7 GB Data Plan, not Unlimited. (Which, BTW, I'd be over-thrilled with up here in Canada where 1 GB of data costs an arm and a couple of legs.)

While I am normally 100% against abusing the word unlimited, on their plan page it isn't in small print. It is in the square box with the name and pricing of the plan... it's hard to miss and in the same font/size/boldness of the unlimited smartphone bit. Though admittedly it may have been changed at some point to be less misleading.

 

[SteveW928]

While I am normally 100% against abusing the word unlimited, on their plan page it isn't in small print. It is in the square box with the name and pricing of the plan... it's hard to miss and in the same font/size/boldness of the unlimited smartphone bit. Though admittedly it may have been changed at some point to be less misleading.

I'll admit I haven't even looked at it (as it isn't available to me). But why even use the word 'Unlimited' if there are limitations?

 

[legioxi]

I'll admit I haven't even looked at it (as it isn't available to me). But why even use the word 'Unlimited' if there are limitations?

I went to double check the page and I was mistaken, it doesn't clearly state 7GB for hotspot. This is the text:

Unlimited
4G LTE DATA*
ON-SMARTPHONE ONLY

That is about how it appears. The page is at: http://www.t-mobile.com/cell-phone-plans/individual.html#

 

[Porco]

So I actually went and read the terms. Even ignoring the tethering limitations, do people really think the bit where they say if you use 21GB you get de-prioritised and lower speeds doesn't slightly contradict the spirit of the word 'unlimited' just a teensy bit? No? I mean I get why they do it, what they're doing is reasonable IMHO, I'm just not sure what they're calling it is. If they say unlimited data, but then limit your speed if you use more than they like, that is surely not unlimited in the usual sense of the word? Or was I looking at the wrong terms maybe?

Protective Measures: To provide the best possible experience for the most possible customers and minimize capacity issues and degradation in network performance, we take certain steps to manage our network, including, but not limited to, prioritizing the data usage of Unlimited high-speed data customers who use more than 21 GB of data during a billing cycle below that of other customers in times and locations where there are competing customer demands for network resources for the remainder of their billing cycle. [1]

All fair enough I think, except for calling it unlimited. Because really, it isn't.

[1] http://www.t-mobile.com/Templates/Popup.aspx?PAsset=Ftr_Ftr_TermsAndConditions&print=true

 

[MaciMac100]

Unlimited smartphone data, what a stupid name. Whoever came up with that idea should be fired. We are living Internet Of Things (IoT) era already. It's up to us whetever we use our data for tablet, Philips Hue lights or AirPlaying to TV. When my watch is connected to 4G via wifi, it just uses data. I could understand this in some developing country, but in US? Come on, just call it 4G data. Maybe your money are going to these CEO's pockets instead of building infrastructure to handle traffic.

 

[SteveW928]

I went to double check the page and I was mistaken, it doesn't clearly state 7GB for hotspot. This is the text:

Unlimited
4G LTE DATA*
ON-SMARTPHONE ONLY

That is about how it appears. The page is at: http://www.t-mobile.com/cell-phone-plans/individual.html#

Also, I think it's a fair enough plan. And, I get why they have a problem with tethering people using a LOT of data. The text you've shown clearly says "on-Smartphone" only. I just don't like the use of the term unlimited when it isn't. (That said, lots of other companies do the same... but that does't make it right.)

 

[aristobrat]

I went to double check the page and I was mistaken, it doesn't clearly state 7GB for hotspot. This is the text:

Unlimited
4G LTE DATA*
ON-SMARTPHONE ONLY

That is about how it appears. The page is at: http://www.t-mobile.com/cell-phone-plans/individual.html#

Try selecting the plan you're referring to. Then it clearly shows you the details (yellow box added by me).

By default, the page you linked to selects the least expensive plan and shows those details. That plan doesn't offer tethering, so there is no detail to show about that.

 

[aristobrat]

I just don't like the use of the term unlimited when it isn't. (That said, lots of other companies do the same... but that does't make it right.)

That topic came up a few pages ago. Nobody had a suggestion for a better term.

 

[SteveW928]

That topic came up a few pages ago. Nobody had a suggestion for a better term.

7 GB (21 GB) Plan*

* w/ up to 21 GB on-phone-only** usage before your speed is reduced.
** 7 GB limit on tethering.

 

[aristobrat]

Unlimited smartphone data, what a stupid name. Whoever came up with that idea should be fired. We are living Internet Of Things (IoT) era already. It's up to us whetever we use our data for tablet, Philips Hue lights or AirPlaying to TV. When my watch is connected to 4G via wifi, it just uses data. I could understand this in some developing country, but in US? Come on, just call it 4G data. Maybe your money are going to these CEO's pockets instead of building infrastructure to handle traffic.

Out of curiosity, have you actually compared what these companies pay their CEOs salaries vs what they spent on CapEx for improvements?

Verizon's guidance for money spent on CapEx this year is $17.5-18.0 billion. AT&T's is $18 billion. Last year, AT&T spent $21.2 billion on capital expenditures.

In 2013, the AT&T CEO was being paid $1.6 million in salary.

So if you took all of his salary and moved it over to CapEx/infrastructure, that'd add an extra .001% to that budget. Insignificant. If they literally spent every single penny of his salary on improvements, you wouldn't notice it IMO.

Definitely not saying that US wireless service can't be better (it can), or less expensive, but it helps to keep a sense of realism about it. Your money going to their CEOs salary isn't preventing infrastructure improvements from happening.

 

[SteveW928]

Out of curiosity, have you actually compared what these companies pay their CEOs salaries vs what they spent on CapEx for improvements?

Verizon's guidance for money spent on CapEx this year is $17.5-18.0 billion. AT&T's is $18 billion. Last year, AT&T spent $21.2 billion on capital expenditures.

In 2013, the AT&T CEO was being paid $1.6 million in salary.

So if you took all of his salary and moved it over to CapEx/infrastructure, that'd add an extra .001% to that budget. Insignificant. If they literally spent every single penny of his salary on improvements, you wouldn't notice it IMO.

Definitely not saying that US wireless service can't be better (it can), or less expensive, but it helps to keep a sense of realism about it. Your money going to their CEOs salary isn't preventing infrastructure improvements from happening.

I agree what they pay the CEO is insignificant in the big picture (though what it does to corporate culture is another story). Instead we'd want to look at what they made in profits, returned to investors, and put back into infrastructure improvements directly (if we could figure that out).

On the one hand, I certainly realize that data in the cellular industry isn't the same thing as broadband data to the home (and I think a lot of the bad rap telcos get is earned more from the latter). But, I'm also pretty sure they aren't suffering too much from the measly amounts of data they provide vs what they charge.

Personally, I'm fine with 1 or 2 GB of data (at this time)... I mostly complain it costs $80+/mo to get it. That's like a major chunk of a car or home payment for a phone. (Let that reality sink in for a moment!) If it were $10-20/mo for 1GB of data, I'd be happy as a clam.

(Or, maybe to put it in another light... I often have to work to talk businesses into spending more than $7/mo for their Website hosting..... their whole, crucial web-presence!... which most people tend to value at under $10/mo. And, they tend to look at premium Web hosting that maybe costs $40-50/mo as extravagant.)

 

[aristobrat]

7 GB (21 GB) Plan*

* w/ up to 21 GB on-phone-only** usage before your speed is reduced.
** 7 GB limit on tethering.

I guess. Seems to make things very ugly when extrapolated out.

T-Mobile's lineup would then look like this:

0 GB (1 GB) Plan*
0 GB (3 GB) Plan*
0 GB (5 GB) Plan*
7 GB (21 GB) Plan*

... where the description for the first three plans would be:
* w/ up to ?? GB on-phone-only** usage before you speed is reduced
** 0 GB limit on tethering

... and the description for the last plan would be:
* w/ up to 21 GB on-phone-only** usage before your speed is reduced.
** 7 GB limit on tethering

And then I'd guess you'd have to explain "speed is reduced", because on the non-unlimited plans, that means 2G speeds, whereas on the unlimited plan, it means "de-prioritized", which varies from no-speed reduction in non-congested situations, to slower in congested situations.



Personally, I think T-Mobile has done about the best job I've seen a carrier do in terms of defining what 'Unlimited' means in regards to their plans.

 

[MaciMac100]

I said 'maybe', I really don't know where your money are going. But with those prices you pay, one could expect better service...

They are advertising on TV, here in Finland, that we have cheapest 4G plans in the world (not sure if thats really true) and according to this; http://qz.com/360548/these-countries-have-the-fastest-4g-wireless-networks-in-the-world/ we have second fastest speeds. I don't know, maybe Nokia is giving it's home country cell towers for free or something.

But you guys need to demand more, T-Mobile CEO says: "All he has to do is listen to customers." I don't know maybe it's all good there.

 

[MaciMac100]

If it were $10-20/mo for 1GB of data, I'd be happy as a clam.

I have one backup SIM card 10$/mo for just to give wifi hotspot. Unlimited amount of data (max 2M speed) but can use it 24/7. 4G (max 50M) speeds would be 20$/mo.

 

[aristobrat]

They are advertising on TV, here in Finland, that we have cheapest 4G plans in the world (not sure if thats really true)

How much would you guess your 4G plan would cost if it worked the same (i.e. no roaming, no data restrictions) from up where you are in Finland, down to Greece, and from Iceland over to Georgia? That's a rough approximation of the geographic area that the big four networks in the US cover, in terms of infrastructure and service.

I honestly don't think Finnish plans would be nearly as cheap (or as fast) if they covered the same amount of land as AT&T, Verizon, T-Mobile, etc. I don't think the carriers would be able to spend a disproportionate amount of their CapEx (infrastructure) budget on ridiculously fast speeds in the metro areas at the same time they need to pay to put cell phone towers up in rural fields to bring 4G LTE to non-metro areas across all of Europe (which is something AT&T, Verizon, T-Mobile, etc do in the US).

So when you say "one could expect better service", one thing to take into account is that US plans do include 4G LTE speeds in virtually every metro area in the US. That's like 29 Finlands worth of coverage.

 

[MaciMac100]

How much would you guess your 4G plan would cost if it worked the same (i.e. no roaming, no data restrictions) from up where you are in Finland, down to Greece, and out in Iceland over to Georgia? That's a rough approximation of the geographic area that the big four networks in the US cover, in terms of infrastructure and service.

I honestly don't think Finnish plans would be nearly as cheap (or as fast) if they covered the same amount of land as AT&T, Verizon, T-Mobile, etc.

If AT&T or Verizon or whomever wanted to focus infrastructure upgrades to smaller, specific regions in the US (say, the size of Finland) I'm sure they could have some amazingly fast speeds, but then that's infrastructure money spent that isn't available for the other areas of the country, which means no on-going improvements for them.

I have been thinking about this and I'm not sure why it works in small scale but not in big scale. Finland is "large" country when comparing it to small number of people living here. So you have more paying customers/area to cover. Plus here even goverment is forcing to build 4G cell towers in middle of forest where is only living couple of people.

I sure hope that it doesn't happen what EU is driving, that there should only 3 EU wide providers if the end result is paying five times more.

 

[SteveW928]

I have one backup SIM card 10$/mo for just to give wifi hotspot. Unlimited amount of data (max 2M speed) but can use it 24/7. 4G (max 50M) speeds would be 20$/mo.

See, I'd *LOVE* something like that. For $10/mo here you can sign up a phone you own on a pre-paid plan to give you fairly expensive/min calls and zero data.

 

[SteveW928]

I guess. Seems to make things very ugly when extrapolated out.

T-Mobile's lineup would then look like this:

0 GB (1 GB) Plan*
0 GB (3 GB) Plan*
0 GB (5 GB) Plan*
7 GB (21 GB) Plan*

... where the description for the first three plans would be:
* w/ up to ?? GB on-phone-only** usage before you speed is reduced
** 0 GB limit on tethering

... and the description for the last plan would be:
* w/ up to 21 GB on-phone-only** usage before your speed is reduced.
** 7 GB limit on tethering

And then I'd guess you'd have to explain "speed is reduced", because on the non-unlimited plans, that means 2G speeds, whereas on the unlimited plan, it means "de-prioritized", which varies from no-speed reduction in non-congested situations, to slower in congested situations.



Personally, I think T-Mobile has done about the best job I've seen a carrier do in terms of defining what 'Unlimited' means in regards to their plans.

That's their problem to solve, not mine. Maybe they could include tethering in all the plans? Or, just set the limit regardless of whether it's tethered or not (that seems most fair... pay for x amount of data, who cares how you utilize it?).

Or, how about:

1 GB Plan
3 GB Plan
5 GB Plan
7 GB + Plan*

* Tethering capability ends at 7 GB. Data continues on-phone-only up to 21 GB with speed reduction there-after (for the remainder of the month).

In other words.... you're under-promising, over-delivering, rather than using a buzz-word like 'Unlimited' with a bunch of attached limitations. Currently, it's more like the industry is saying, "Yea, we use that word unlimited, but wink-wink *everyone* knows that's not what it really means." That's horrible marketing, folks. And we wonder why people hate telcos???

 

[shareef777]

Well, that and when the big print says 'Unlimited Data' there shouldn't be something contradictory in the little print. If you're giving me 7 GB of data, then say 7 GB Data Plan, not Unlimited. (Which, BTW, I'd be over-thrilled with up here in Canada where 1 GB of data costs an arm and a couple of legs.)

Problem is you assumed unlimited referred to data consumed off the device. They sell service for your phone. You can consume an unlimited amount of data on that phone. Nothing contradictory about that.

 

[31 Flavas]

I'd also be *really* curious about how many we're talking about here. That's such an extreme amount of data, I'm wondering if this 'some users' is like 2.

To answer this -- John Legere stated in his blog post (<-- that is a link to his post) that the number of egregious abusers is around 3000 customers.

THEN DON'T ****ING CALL IT UNLIMITED AND THEN THEY WON'T USE UNLIMITED AMOUNTS OF DATA! ****ERS!!

Very true! Decide what it is. Then call it what it is. Price it somewhat fairly.

As far as this -- That T-Mobile has misrepresented the plan. That they are not allowing unlimited data use on an unlimited data plan -- I ask you, as I asked other another poster here (who so far hasn't responded), do you understand the problem here? I mean, it would appear to me as if you came to a conclusion after reading only the headline.

Should you not know that what is happening: It is that select customers are disguising tethered data, which is *not* unlimited, as mobile phone data. The unlimited data plan allows only 7GB of high-speed data to be shared to teathered devices. That is the mobile phone itself is allowed unlimited high speed data. But devices for which you are sharing the phones data to, are limited to 7GB of high speed data. This is part of the plan. It was not added afterwords as AT&T did with grandfathered unlimited data plans. Above 7GB of high speed tethered data and the tethered data is throttled.

So understand that disguising tethered data (making it appear as though it is not tethered, and instead, a data request from the mobile handset itself) to get around that limit is the offense here. If these customers need hundreds or thousands of GBs of data for a PC or a laptop they should get a land line. If they're truly on the move, hotel to hotel, or whatever (seriously doubt it) they can pay for the extra data. Or, find some affordable way to get access to Wi-Fi.

What T-Mobile is saying is that they will no longer tolerate this abusive disguising of tethered data. It is stealing. These customers are going to be warned first. Told to stop their behavior. And if they continue to try to purport that tethered data is still a legitimate data request from their mobile phone itself, instead -- Then they will force them onto the 1GB tiered plan.

Is there anything unreasonable about that?

7 GB (21 GB) Plan*

* w/ up to 21 GB on-phone-only** usage before your speed is reduced.
** 7 GB limit on tethering.

The fact that these abusive customers are consuming as much as 2,000 GB, in a month, should more then demonstrate that T-Mobile is *literally* offering these customers an *actually* unlimited amount of high speed data in accordance with their plan because they purport the tethered data to T-Mobile as mobile phone data instead and are not using a congested or overloaded cell tower (Thus de-priortization after 21 GB of mobile data, does not affect them). So please correct me to where T-Mobile is not honoring the word or spirit of "Unlimited" in these customers unlimited high speed data plan.

The plan says 7GB of high speed tethered data. Select customers are violating that. T-Mobile is therefore warning them that they will be punished if they don't stop. Seems entirely reasonable for them take action against these customers who are abusively stealing.

 

[McGiord]

 

[MaciMac100]

Sigh. What now John? Either someone hacked your network, and you are fighting it, or you have double backed on being "the uncarrier". A limit, no matter how large, is still a limit. Many of us came to you because of your very clear understanding of what unlimited means.

Don't fight the baddies by giving the law obiding citizens a curfew. Heck, I'd see these guys as a marketing opportunity.

"Last month Hackers used the equivalent of 22 hours of HBO every day. We get it. Sometimes we have to rewatch Game of Thrones too. Unlimited Data. Only on the Uncarrier."

Exactly. This is how he should have wrote that blog post instead of talking about rooting phones and using apps.

 

[_Refurbished_]

That's their problem to solve, not mine. Maybe they could include tethering in all the plans? Or, just set the limit regardless of whether it's tethered or not (that seems most fair... pay for x amount of data, who cares how you utilize it?).

Or, how about:

1 GB Plan
3 GB Plan
5 GB Plan
7 GB + Plan*

* Tethering capability ends at 7 GB. Data continues on-phone-only up to 21 GB with speed reduction there-after (for the remainder of the month).

In other words.... you're under-promising, over-delivering, rather than using a buzz-word like 'Unlimited' with a bunch of attached limitations. Currently, it's more like the industry is saying, "Yea, we use that word unlimited, but wink-wink *everyone* knows that's not what it really means." That's horrible marketing, folks. And we wonder why people hate telcos???

How about Unlimited Smartphone Data + 7GB Personal Hotspot Data.