Tahoe’s icon mess

[galad]

Symbols help when there are only a few, and the there isn't much horizontal space. Menu are verticals, so there is no space limits.

If symbols were so useful we would have not invented the alphabet. Let's make a petition to switch symbols to kanji, at least they have a better defined meaning, most of the times.

 

[johnsawyercjs]

But as an IT-admin I can wholeheartedly say that “most users” do not use any kind of keyboard shortcuts.

I can use the keyboard to perform menu actions?!??

 

[Novae Bentos]

Apple should take the final courageous step and replace all menu text with emojis. In macOS 27 the standout feature will be user created dancing Memojis in menu items, cos the ‘influencers’ told them so.

🍆 = Download linked file

 

[fisherking]

I can't ask everyone in the world, of course, but I've taken the time to read every reply here. To this point, many have agreed they're unhelpful, some have said they don't mind them, and none have said they find them helpful.

macrumors forums are a place for mac-obsessive people, not for most mac users, and therefore not representative of the world at large. just a thought!

 

[dmccloud]

I can't ask everyone in the world, of course, but I've taken the time to read every reply here. To this point, many have agreed they're unhelpful, some have said they don't mind them, and none have said they find them helpful.

But the user community here is not representative of the Mac user base as a whole, which means there's an inherent bias in the group being sampled.

 

[Artakamoose]

I would agree that Tahoe has an Ikon mess, but that discussion belongs in a skiing forum.

 

[Starfia]

macrumors forums are a place for mac-obsessive people, not for most mac users, and therefore not representative of the world at large. just a thought!

But the user community here is not representative of the Mac user base as a whole, which means there's an inherent bias in the group being sampled.

I agree with both of you. That's why I acknowledged up front that I couldn't ask everyone in the world, and wasn't purporting to making a claim that this thread represented the world. I was attempting to answer a question posed by a fellow forum member using some data as opposed to guessing, which no one had done to that point.

I'll add: even in a typically bustling MacRumors thread, I note at least one or two apologist-type contributors offering the counterpoint firsthand opinion. One or two people in this thread have said they "like the interface," but no one has specifically said they find the copious menu symbols helpful, let alone attempted to elaborate on why they find them helpful.

I'll also add: it's been a half-year since the first public beta, and a third of a year since the official release, and I haven't noted anyone, anywhere, praising the menu symbols.

If the folks at Apple actually based these seemingly wild design decisions on studies with real people rather than someone's intuition or whim, I'm still trying to find the slightest hint of it.

So, that's where I stand: I remain open-minded, I'm ready to get a broader view of what people think by way of any link, any video, any testimony, from anywhere. Please feel free to share if you find one.

 

[fisherking]

I agree with both of you. That's why I acknowledged up front that I couldn't ask everyone in the world, and wasn't purporting to making a claim that this thread represented the world. I was attempting to answer a question posed by a fellow forum member using some data as opposed to guessing, which no one had done to that point.

I'll add: even in a typically bustling MacRumors thread, I note at least one or two apologist-type contributors offering the counterpoint firsthand opinion. One or two people in this thread have said they "like the interface," but no one has specifically said they find the copious menu symbols helpful, let alone attempted to elaborate on why they find them helpful.

I'll also add: it's been a half-year since the first public beta, and a third of a year since the official release, and I haven't noted anyone, anywhere, praising the menu symbols.

If the folks at Apple actually based these seemingly wild design decisions on studies with real people rather than someone's intuition or whim, I'm still trying to find the slightest hint of it.

So, that's where I stand: I remain open-minded, I'm ready to get a broader view of what people think by way of any link, any video, any testimony, from anywhere. Please feel free to share if you find one.

does anyone honestly believe that there aren't teams that work on these things, and consequently, discussions about LG, rounded corners, and menu symbols? etc? and that these discussions aren't happening around apple in general?

apple is a HUGE corporation, so someone somewhere is discussing these things.

the menu symbols do nothing for me, but similarly, don't annoy me in any way. and if someone (perhaps a future newbie) finds them useful... more power to them.

 

[Starfia]

does anyone honestly believe that there aren't teams that work on these things, and consequently, discussions about LG, rounded corners, and menu symbols? etc? and that these discussions aren't happening around apple in general?

Some people apparently don't, but I certainly do. (I imagine there's a lot of discussion inside Apple this year about this stuff specifically.) Apple rose to the top because the talent brought knowledge, worked together, had good taste, thought things through, did check with people about what they thought, and didn't lose perspective. Customers responded to that.

That's precisely why I, and seemingly many others, are concerned here. Certain prominent aspects of Tahoe strike me, genuinely for the first time since I started using a Mac before OS X, as, for whatever reason, lacking that consideration. Customers who responded to the good moves are now responding to these choices. We're writing these shared articles, considering countermoves in software, and taking time to speak on the forum because we love Apple and are wondering what's going on. Apple's course has always been steered in some part by that kind of outward response.

 

[fisherking]

Some people apparently don't, but I certainly do. (I imagine there's a lot of discussion inside Apple this year about this stuff specifically.) Apple rose to the top because the talent brought knowledge, worked together, had good taste, thought things through, did check with people about what they thought, and didn't lose perspective. Customers responded to that.

That's precisely why I, and seemingly many others, are concerned here. Certain prominent aspects of Tahoe strike me, genuinely for the first time since I started using a Mac before OS X, as, for whatever reason, lacking that consideration. Customers who responded to the good moves are now responding to these choices. We're writing these shared articles, considering countermoves in software, and taking time to speak on the forum because we love Apple and are wondering what's going on. Apple's course has always been steered in some part by that kind of outward response.

you're also assuming that the ppl at apple aren't (at least) someone confident in the direction they're going. and you speak of 'we', but that doesn't encompass everyone.

but apple 'has always been steered in some part' by 'outward response'? that's news to me. with some exceptions, apple has mostly seemed to be a company that goes where it wants to go, and we follow (or not).

 

[sleeptodream]

hmm, is it not ok for me to have a different opinion, and express it? we're all just 'random users', and each entitled to our observations. what about newer mac users? it's (often) change itself that people find threatening (not to say there aren't sometimes real issues). perhaps newer users will adapt quickly to the menu icons, and use those as a guideline when using menus.

either way, am not going to do a point-by-point rebuttal, it's not worth it. i am entitled to my opinions, stand by them, and will continue to express my point of view; i expect you'll do the same.

I think new users would adapt better if the icons were at least used consistently. I like the icons on iOS for menus, though they’re larger and easier to differentiate than on macOS, and there are usually far fewer of them

 

[Starfia]

you're also assuming that the ppl at apple aren't (at least) someone confident in the direction they're going.

Not at all. If anything, a higher level of confidence in something that seems wayward makes it more concerning.

and you speak of 'we', but that doesn't encompass everyone.

Correct. "We" referred to "I, and seemingly many others" from the start of that paragraph.

but apple 'has always been steered in some part' by 'outward response'? that's news to me. with some exceptions, apple has mostly seemed to be a company that goes where it wants to go, and we follow (or not).

One of my favourite examples of this is from WWDC 2007, when Jobs explicitly acknowledging they'd made a basic change to the Mac's visual interface in response to feedback. He occasionally mentioned things like "we went out and asked people what they think" about updates, or that a feature he was about to announce was the "most requested feature" – for example, adding multi-person chat in iChat. iOS's "camera roll" once disappeared by design and was restored in the following version, evidently in response to requests. And Apple's main site still has a whole area devoted to user feedback.

I'm not sure how one would quantify the weights of ideas originated internally versus ideas acquired from feedback, which is why I merely said "in some part."

 

[fisherking]

Not at all. If anything, a higher level of confidence in something that seems wayward makes it more concerning.

right, that 'seems wayward' to you 👍

 

[Starfia]

right, that 'seems wayward' to you 👍

Yes, you've successfully recalled the premise of the thread.

 

[fisherking]

Yes, you've successfully recalled the premise of the thread.

i do my best 👍

 

[mauriziodececco]

Well, i'll give a different opinion. I haven't yet migrated to Tahoe, i am waiting for some audio plugin editor to assure compatibility, as every year. But i am an iOS 26 user, and quite happy with it.

So, i knew about icons menu from this very discussion. And i love the screen shot posted.
Why ?

My eyes/brain see the icon first, and very quickly recognize the icons i know, like +, share etc. Find an option looks a lot quicker once you know the icon language. And no, colours slow down recognition, the B&W are faster for my eyes.

So, menu icons will not be a reasons for not updating. Now, if only Tahoe add an application launcher where *i* decide the application organization and categories ...

Maurizio

 

[dmccloud]

does anyone honestly believe that there aren't teams that work on these things, and consequently, discussions about LG, rounded corners, and menu symbols? etc? and that these discussions aren't happening around apple in general?

apple is a HUGE corporation, so someone somewhere is discussing these things.

the menu symbols do nothing for me, but similarly, don't annoy me in any way. and if someone (perhaps a future newbie) finds them useful... more power to them.

The one thing I think is important to mention here is that the guy who was leading up the UI team and the Liquid Glass initiative went to Meta, and a lot of people within Apple said "good riddance!" - off the record, naturally. His replacement is apparently someone a lot of people within Apple have a high degree of respect and admiration for, so there may be some notable changes coming to the UI over the next 2-3 years...

 

[TumbleDryer]

Oh no not more...!

 

[fisherking]

Oh no not more...!

haven't seen that, but... if some of the empty spaces were filled in in menus, wouldn't that be a good thing? as they're obviously not going to be abandoned. some ppl are never happy... 🤷

 

[Novae Bentos]

1 year to break it, 2-3 years to glue it back together, impressive

so there may be some notable changes coming to the UI over the next 2-3 years...