Tape vs Hard drive or SD cards

Discussion in 'Digital Video' started by paradoxibis, Jun 11, 2011.

  1. paradoxibis macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2011
    #1
    I been looking to buy a semi pro HD tapeless camcorder to use on Final Cut Pro 7, but I read lots of blogs and threads saying that allot of tapeless camcorders are not designed for FCP or apple in mind even when they state they work on apple systems there are problems, so a question for someone using semi pro or pro camcorders on FCP, which is a good camcorder to buy or should I rather stick to tape for now? I can spend anything between 0 - $6000.:cool:
     
  2. martinX macrumors 6502a

    martinX

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    #2
  3. puckhead193 macrumors G3

    puckhead193

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    #3
    I have that Sony and it does indeed work with fcp. Just be aware of storage issues. Luckily for me once I've shot something in about a week or so I can delete it.
    The footage is avchd which fcp needs to transcode to pro-ress. About an hr. of footage takes up 100 gb....
    Any further questions let me know!

    Ps yes it's awesosme camera for the price!
     
  4. -DH macrumors 65816

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    #4
    >>I read lots of blogs and threads saying that allot of tapeless camcorders are not designed for FCP or apple in mind even when they state they work on apple systems there are problems<<

    I'd be willing to bet that 99% of those problems are user error. People don't understand, nor do they even take the time to understand the workflow involved.

    Most manufacturers of consumer/prosumer video cameras have been using recording codecs that were originally designed for final delivery - not for editing. They do this because it's cheap and they can get more recording time per memory card. On the positive side of this: even though the codecs used are very highly compressed, they are very efficient and reasonably good quality. On the negative side: the recorded files will need to be converted to an edit-friendly codec prior to editing. When FCP X is released, that may change, but for now, one must develop the workflow needed to edit these codecs properly.

    One other negative to non-tape based recordings: you will need a lot of hard drive space. Since there's no tape to serve as a backup, you really need to copy/backup the recorded files. And when you convert them for editing, the resulting files sizes can be anywhere from 2x to 12x the original file size.

    -DH
     
  5. linuxcooldude macrumors 68020

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    Mar 1, 2010
    #5
    There is one camcorder that advertizes native import within FCP which is the JVC GY-HM100U. It uses SDHC flash cards in .mov format without conversion.
     
  6. cgbier macrumors 6502a

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    Jun 6, 2011
    #6
    There are plenty manuals on how to get flash based footage into FCP on YT.

    My workflow is still tape based. I like it, but it is no problem to ingest from flash cards. Just make sure you copy the whole file structure from the card into you Mac.
    As you are talking semi pro: Look for cameras that use MPEG2 for recording - Canon XF, JVC HM, Sony EX,... puts less strain on your machine.

    And get plenty of external drives.
     
  7. TheStrudel macrumors 65816

    TheStrudel

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    Jan 5, 2008
    #7
    If you're willing to spend $6,000 on a camera: none of the above. That amount puts you into the price range of cameras that shoot better codecs, with higher quality allowed than tape or SD cards, and cameras that high-end don't come with hard drives built-in.

    Look instead for cameras that shoot with say, compact flash. Were this a few years ago, I might have suggested other formats like SxS or P2, but they're all on their way out.

    I'm still waiting for my Canon XF 100 to arrive. If supply weren't so constrained, I'd suggest it: it looks like it would suit your needs.
     
  8. 42streetsdown macrumors 6502a

    42streetsdown

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    #8
    I'm still waiting for RED to release the scarlet. That'll be the camera to beat.

    Tape Cameras are a nightmare. Low bit rates, crappy compression, and horrible playback/transfer.
     
  9. martinX macrumors 6502a

    martinX

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    #9
    Looks like a great camera. I'd be willing to go a step further and suggest the (upcoming) Panasonic AG-HPX250: AVC Intra, 4:2:2 colour sampling. Looks good.

    If I had spare money when I buy my imaginary NX5U (depending on my Unit's budget) I'd buy an Atomos Ninja for $995 (+ drives) and capture directly into ProRes. FCP compatible, intraframe compression only, high bitrate, 4:2:2 - perfect.
     
  10. martinX macrumors 6502a

    martinX

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    #11
    Lens not included


    To me, that seems like the sort of camera a cinematographer would use. Someone who would be using film 20 years ago. Some people would love to use these things, but the OP is asking for "semi-pro" and I reckon the AF100 is more "pro". Nice unit, though.

    In my mind, semi-pro means XLR inputs and hopefully 3 chips. Pro adds interchangeable lenses. Perhaps "semi-pro" implies 'videographer' while "pro" implies 'cinematographer'.
     
  11. Dale Campbell macrumors member

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    Mar 29, 2009
    #12

    Maybe... but with the rise of DSLR for video interchangeable lenses have become prevalent at most levels of 'pro'. I would have to think long and hard before dropping money on a camera that did not have interchangeable lenses at this price point as it would restrict the expandability in a year or so when the OP may be more confident & experienced.
     
  12. MisterMe macrumors G4

    MisterMe

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    USA
    #13
    I notice that no one mentioned Canon. Canon has long sold camcorders that are technically prosumer-level, but have been used extensively in professional applications. This was the case with its mini DV camcorders and later with its HDV camcorders. The top-of-the-line Canon camcorders have interchangeable lenses and three imaging elements. Canon still sells HDV camcorders, but its top-of-the-line XF305 and less expensive sibling XF300 use CF cards. Some card-based professional cameras use the highly compressed AVCHD format, but the Canons record in MPEG-2 4:2:2 (MPEG-2 4:2:0 at 25Mbps). They record a full 1920x1080 (60i/30p/24p) or 1280x720 (60p/30p/24p) [or 1440x1080 (60i/30p/24p at 25Mbps]. On a 64 GB CB, recording time is determined by the data rate:

    25Mbps: 310 minutes
    35Mbps: 225 minutes
    50Mbps: 160 minutes​

    or longer if two CF cards are used in tandem.

    Unlike Canon's previous offerings, however, its new rigs do not use FireWire. Like Canon's previous offerings, they do not require drivers to work with the Mac.

    You may learn more about Canon's complete line of prosumer camcorders on its website.
     
  13. CaptainChunk macrumors 68020

    CaptainChunk

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    #14
    While that's true, it still records in an MPEG-2 codec, which isn't exactly ideal for editing because of the interframe compression. In FCP, you really want to edit in ProRes.
     
  14. TheStrudel macrumors 65816

    TheStrudel

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    #15
    Did you not see me mention Canon - one of those models specifically - or bother to read the post? Really? I was making exactly the point you just made.
     
  15. martinX macrumors 6502a

    martinX

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    #16
    I swear these topics are automatically generated.
     
  16. Erendiox, Jun 25, 2011
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2011

    Erendiox macrumors 6502a

    Erendiox

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    Brooklyn NY
    #17
    Sony EX1-R

    SxS card recording to XDCAM EX. It's a high quality codec that you can edit natively, unlike AVCHD, which generally requires transcoding. Full raster HD, three 2/3 sensors. I own one. It's an awesome cam. If you're going to spend anywhere near this amount of money, I would stay away from the cameras that output in heavily compressed formats (AVCHD). There are better options.

    EDIT: Oh and if there was any question, yes it works wonderfully with FCP.
     
  17. CaptainChunk macrumors 68020

    CaptainChunk

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    #18
    Yeah, when and IF they ever release the Scarlet. They've been talking about that camera since 2009.
     
  18. MisterMe macrumors G4

    MisterMe

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    USA
    #19
    Sorry for the oversight. My face is red.
     

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