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Target Joins Walmart with iTunes Concerns
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nostaws said:
I don't understand what this fuzz is about! I buy a DVD, I watch it, say, 10 times. (Some criminally inclined people would even rip it, shame!) If I don't want it any more, I'll resell it for maybe half the price on Eballs.
I can't resell the downloaded version. The resale value of the purchased media drops to $0 the moment I buy it. That means, it should be half the price of a DVD. But wait... No packaging, no physical media, (in a way) no retail profit margin...
The download should be one third the price of the DVD. That's fair!
i don't know why wally world and target are complaining, this will not hurt DVD sales. like what was said. there are allot of people that cant afford new Mac's to play there movies (my problem). or live outside of the city and don't have a high speed connection (cause they are to far out) or just cant afford satellite internet. i like to have the original copy (in dvd format) i know allot of other people that also like to have a dvd of the movie.
boy are they stupid (wall-marts and target) in not seeing this.
boy are they stupid (wall-marts and target) in not seeing this.
This is stupid. Neither walmart or target are going to stop selling DVD's just like they havent stopped selling cd's. The absolute crap quality of the movies and the horrible lagging movie player that iTunes offers is completely irrelevant to DVD sales. Even bittorrent movies are better. iTunes movie downloads are not a threat to DVD's by any stretch of the imagination since the execution of the movies and movie player was so poor.
Its a baseless threat that they have no intention of following through with because theyd lose far more money than sales lost to iTunes.
Its a baseless threat that they have no intention of following through with because theyd lose far more money than sales lost to iTunes.
Actually not really. I use to sell them in my store.Foggy said:
I'm sure they get a better deal then us but not that much better.
Normal DVD retail is like this.
DVD normal sells $24.95
DVD wholesale would be around $19.95
If I bought a case I would get them for $16.95.
This doesn't help when Best Buy and Target and Wal-Mart sell them at 19.95 for the very first week! I'm lucky if I make 5 bucks on DVD sales...then factor in shipping costs of the DVD's.
Selling DVD's is like selling comic books...you have to sell massive amounts of them to make any kind of money.
I figure Target and Wal-Mart make around 3-5 bucks on each DVD they sell.
Some folks ask us to match Wal-Marts and Targets and Best Buy pricing...but we can't normally. We can't even make any money of them now.
I once had a DVD for sale. It was priced at 24.95. I paid 19.95 for it. I marked it down to 20.95..to move it. Guy comes in to tell me Best Buy sells the same DVD for 14.99!
they would
gee, the retail stores would speak out against something that would hurt their sales, wouldn't they?
apple is providing an alternative just like retail stores provided alternatives to going out to a theater when VHS was released. im certainly not saying it's better, i would never download an itunes movie, because i'd rather have a physical dvd. but now i have the choice.
gee, the retail stores would speak out against something that would hurt their sales, wouldn't they?
apple is providing an alternative just like retail stores provided alternatives to going out to a theater when VHS was released. im certainly not saying it's better, i would never download an itunes movie, because i'd rather have a physical dvd. but now i have the choice.
I generally agree with your thesis, restricted downloads should be a lot cheaper than new DVDs.pianojoe said:
However, I believe that, for the most part, the market for used DVDs has dried up. I was doing pretty well buying movies and reselling them after I watched them (sort of Netflix w/o the subscription or deadlines) but now many of the movies I want to get rid of are often available for $2 + s/h on Amazon. So the only DVDs that sell for a decent price are rare or almost new movies...
Plenty of new DVDs of older movies for $10 or less at your local Target or Wally World.
B
As ITR 81 already mentioned, they are already often selling at below their cost to attract customers. They don't have any room to go lower unless the studios drop their prices.Steve Jobless said:
B
Am I the only guy who uses special features on DVDs?
I am a major Apple fan-boy but I haven't bought movies from iTunes for a couple reasons.
1) I like the special features on DVDs, and I doubt apple is offering alternate soundtracks, subtitles, director's comments, etc. with the Apple movie offerings.
2) My daughters like taking a DVD with them to their grandparents house. Unless we centralize Apple downloaded movies at my house and equip my kids with video iPods, the Apple movie sale solution is not a very portable option.
Don't get me wrong, one day I'll probably buy a movie from Apple, but at this time, I'll pay a $5-$10 premium for portability.
I do buy TV shows from iTunes, but I don't expect extra features with TV shows.
As other posters have have suggested, even if "Johnny Lunch-Pail" isn't interested in the benefits in physical media I list above, he probably won't have the bandwidth to download the movies at any reasonable speed. How much time does it take to save $5?
"Instant gratification" of iTunes movies is going to be painfully slow on most peeps DSL.
I'm surprised the folks at Target and Walmart haven't figured this out. Maybe the execs making all the fuss assume that their shoppers have the same high-end systems that they have?
I would assume any impact to DVD sales will be incremental, and T&W should be able to adjust their business model to this, adjusting retail space accordingly.
I am a major Apple fan-boy but I haven't bought movies from iTunes for a couple reasons.
1) I like the special features on DVDs, and I doubt apple is offering alternate soundtracks, subtitles, director's comments, etc. with the Apple movie offerings.
2) My daughters like taking a DVD with them to their grandparents house. Unless we centralize Apple downloaded movies at my house and equip my kids with video iPods, the Apple movie sale solution is not a very portable option.
Don't get me wrong, one day I'll probably buy a movie from Apple, but at this time, I'll pay a $5-$10 premium for portability.
I do buy TV shows from iTunes, but I don't expect extra features with TV shows.
As other posters have have suggested, even if "Johnny Lunch-Pail" isn't interested in the benefits in physical media I list above, he probably won't have the bandwidth to download the movies at any reasonable speed. How much time does it take to save $5?
"Instant gratification" of iTunes movies is going to be painfully slow on most peeps DSL.
I'm surprised the folks at Target and Walmart haven't figured this out. Maybe the execs making all the fuss assume that their shoppers have the same high-end systems that they have?
I would assume any impact to DVD sales will be incremental, and T&W should be able to adjust their business model to this, adjusting retail space accordingly.
Since people seem to have missed my earlier point when the claim was the failure of the free market:Hobofuzz said:
this is the market in play. This appears to be a business dispute, not governmental involvement. The free market requires communication between businesses to maximize profits.
As for the Sherman, the Act was designed to protect consumers from the leveraging of monopoly power to conspire to control a market. Here, there is no conspiracy to control the market. Rather, there is a complaint by one business entity regarding the activities of another with which it does business. If Target and Wal-mart were conspiring to split the market (or if the industry conspired with T and WM), that would trigger the Sherman.
Target, Wal Mart and everyone else will continue to sell dvds and cds as long as they are making money from them. When they don't make any money from them they'll stop selling them and not before.
At the moment they are moaning about online distribution to get better prices from their suppliers, so they can lower their prices and / or make more profit from them. They'll also have their own download services as well when and where they can, provided they make money from them as well.
I can't believe either of them have or would threaten movie companies, especially as it won't get them anywhere - there is no way a movie company would say no to online distribution just because they told them to.
The cd / dvd market is no different to anything else that Target and Wal Mart sell, they will be using similar arguments with all of their suppliers all of the time. The only difference is that it ain't a story when its about vacuum cleaners, dairy products or kitchen cleaning products.
At the moment they are moaning about online distribution to get better prices from their suppliers, so they can lower their prices and / or make more profit from them. They'll also have their own download services as well when and where they can, provided they make money from them as well.
I can't believe either of them have or would threaten movie companies, especially as it won't get them anywhere - there is no way a movie company would say no to online distribution just because they told them to.
The cd / dvd market is no different to anything else that Target and Wal Mart sell, they will be using similar arguments with all of their suppliers all of the time. The only difference is that it ain't a story when its about vacuum cleaners, dairy products or kitchen cleaning products.
balamw said:
this is something that needs to be pointed out again. The complaint that Target has is the fact that the online download price is well below the cost it would be for them. You have to remember when they sell a DVD they only make 1-2 bucks off of it. Right now the stuff on iTunes is below what it cost them to get it and apple is making money off of it. Not losing it like Target is.
They are telling the studios they want to be able to buy the DVDs from them at a more competive price. If they do not get their way they will reduce the amount of shelf space for the DVD and reduce the amount they sell because of that. Net result is the studios lose more money.
calculus said:
Beautiful! I wish I had said that. Do you mind if I quote you?
A person can buy DVD's almost everywhere. They do not need either of these creep shows. I doubt if I have spent a total of $100 combined between them. Wal-Mart (especially) just gives me a totally negative feeling. I will not spend my hard-earned there, regardless of what their prices are.
evilgEEk said:Maybe not for you, but it will for me, and probably a lot of other folks as well.
Once I have a decent method of getting my movies from my computer to my TV (i.e. iTV), and iTunes has more selection, I plan on never buying another DVD again. I'm in the minority here I'm sure, but for how long? How long before digital distribution is the method of choice for your average Joe?
My point is that their (Wal-Mart/Target) concerns are valid, but they're still just whining about it because they're scared of competition. Why isn't Wal-Mart whining and complaining about the Music Store? Oh... That's right, because they have one of their own.
Ok, point taken. You do agree with me that they are whining though. I do not believe that there will be a large market of people that stop buying DVDs because they can now download them. Maybe there will be, it just does not make sense to me.
PharmD said:
I'm sorry.
I worked at that hellhole for 3 and a half years and it went towards the crapper with each passing day. I went on leave of absence for school, but didn't come back over the summer due to me having an internship elsewhere, and they sent me a letter telling me to either quit or come back, so I said goodbye.
Their business practices, while better than Wal-Mart, are nothing to be proud about either. Maybe if they spent more time improving the shopping experience and less time high pressuring customers, err, guests, for those god damn target visa cards, loss of DVD sales wouldn't be a problem
In fact, DVD pricing is not the most important factor for Walmart and I suspect Target as well. Both companies employ sophisticated marketing techniques to draw customers into the store and get them to part with more money than they originally intended to spend. Brand-name promotions, item placements and even Walmart's "don't ask, don't tell" return policies are examples. The use of loss-leaders, selling products at a small loss, has proven to be one of the most powerful customer draws. DVDs are the numero-uno loss leader draw of most Walmarts, particularly those in the broad midsection of the country where it's often difficult to find a video rental store, much less a Tower, Borders or Virgin Atlantic store. I recently spent the summer in the Hill Country of Texas and became quite familiar with the Friday evening surge when customers would stream into a Walmart to pick up a DVD for the weekend and then decide to do a little additional shopping "seein' as they was there." I think the stores are rightfully fearful of the loss in foot traffic and the consequential loss of impulse purchases if movie downloads become popular. For the same reason, simply openning up an online store will not insulate them from losses since the profits accrued from DVD sales don't generally arise from the DVDs themselves, but from the additional shopping that is all but inevitable once you enter the store.
Corporate self centered whiners!
Apple and iTunes changing the scene?
How about Walmart changing the scene. Now Tower is pushing up daisies.
Apple and iTunes changing the scene?
How about Walmart changing the scene. Now Tower is pushing up daisies.
thats true and I agree, however best buy often offers much lower prices, which attracts me to them, hell I'm a loyal customer regardless of how crappy of a company it may be.balamw said:
willdenow said:
Yep, it's similar in Best Buy and other places with the weeks newest CD releases. Normally a few CDs are on a really good sale and others are not so competitively priced. Good thing I can control my impulses... for the most part.
Anyway, unlike my CD collection, I would be quite happy with a terrabyte unit to store all of my movies so I could just scroll through some list on the remote and playback any given movie for the evening-- or download something new. When the iService gives that to us, it will be quite nice.
Wow. And travel agents are going to keep us from buying plane tickets online. More recently real estate agents aren't happy with online real estate brokering. Go figure. Instead of innovating and finding ways to adapt, they just complain and threaten. If they're not careful, they'll go the way of the travel agent...
Who am I to mess up their business model? I often make a Tuesday trip to my local BB to pick up new releases, but it's not always true that BB beats Target's prices. If I'm shopping for a new release I'll usually check both places, Costco & Amazon and get it from the place with the lowest price or nicest "extra". My kids have received lots of "freebies" along with DVDs at Best Buy or Costco...Steve Jobless said:
B
aw, crybaby, you are going to lose buisness aren't you? don't worry, there's always HD-DVD and Blueray movies coming out. these people just can't accept the fact that there's a new method, downloading legaly online, that's going to be a big hit. cry all you want. wah wah wah
Progress? Outrageous!
I also understand these new "auto mobiles" are going to cut into buggy whip sales. That's just wrong.
I also understand these new "auto mobiles" are going to cut into buggy whip sales. That's just wrong.