agreed! and dont forget thermal cameras, which can take a pick of the PIN keypad and capture your PIN... compared to tokenized NFC systems such as AP, c-a-p is less valuable to me as a consumer.
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Target Plans to Offer Apple Pay After Chip-and-PIN Card Upgrade
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agreed! and dont forget thermal cameras, which can take a pick of the PIN keypad and capture your PIN... compared to tokenized NFC systems such as AP, c-a-p is less valuable to me as a consumer.
The rub is that without a PIN, using the chip card outside the US becomes difficult. I think it's too soon to say how long it will take to get Apple Pay everywhere at the international level.
If I remember correctly, it's only Wells Fargo that's offering the PIN option.
Recently they have had bigger issues to deal with like the failed Canada expansion and the 3,600 person layoffs at corporate. So I can understand it not being at the top of the list.
processing debit/credit cards via debit costs the merchant less, so they will often insist on asking you if you want to use debit and enter your PIN.
A fair number of people already have chip-enabled cards. Granted, they're chip and signature, but still.
Indeed! One grocery store near me has FD35 PIN pads and never asks me to sign when I use Apple Pay. If I insert one of my chip and signature cards though, I always have to sign (even for a $2 purchase).
how many people is a "fair number"? i dont know anybody with PIN cards, but i know plenty of people with iPhone 6es and now apple watches.
IMO that's fairly overblown. You may have problems with ticket machines and the like if the card doesn't have a PIN on it at all, but US credit cards work fine at "attended" terminals outside the US (e.g. places with a cashier or clerk). Almost no one offers European-style chip and PIN cards where the PIN is nearly always asked for.
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That's because American banks have gone with chip and signature instead. Still, you likely know someone with at least one chip-enabled card.
Banks have already been rolling out chip cards for some years, plus they can and will replace active non-chip cards. When they start handing free iPhones and
watches to all customers, then we could have a talk about replacing Chip & PIN altogether in favor of Pay.
You are correct as Target has to support EMV, but have decided to support both EMV and Contactless payments. Target already uses Verifone MX925's that come with built in Contactless, which they have then turned off. Many places use that same MX925's with support for Apple Pay and once EMV is enabled very little investment is needed to support Contactless too. It only makes sense to support it at this point. Although I do wonder when Wal-Mart will announce they they too will support it, haha
This is a horribly inaccurate story...
There are two card types... "Chip and PIN" and "Chip and Signature" ... Target (and many other retailers) are installing equipment to handle Chip and Signature, NOT chip and PIN to comply with the new rules stating if you don't take chip cards, you're on the hook for any disputes.
The cards issued in the US are almost 100% chip and signature, which basically means if someone grabs your card, the only thing that can stop them from going hog wild is someone checking ID. In the rest of the world, almost 100% of cards are Chip and PIN, which means you insert the card, then enter your pin to authenticate the transaction, then remove your card.
Presently almost all US credit and debit card issuers have cut over to chip cards, but all except for a couple small banks and credit unions have gone with Chip and Signature. Doesn't change much except for eliminate mag-strip cloning... but as far as grabbing someone's wallet and going on a spending spree, we're still going to be light years behind the rest of the world.
The card issuers (as well as Visa and MC) really need to get on board with ApplePay, or come up with a universal payment technology that uses a biometric device like ApplePay does. If someone has TouchPay\AppleID on their phone, I can't see a circumstance where a purse snatching would result in a compromised account, unless someone's credit card is stored in their purse, which would be eliminated if EVERYONE took ApplePay. LOL
There are two card types... "Chip and PIN" and "Chip and Signature" ... Target (and many other retailers) are installing equipment to handle Chip and Signature, NOT chip and PIN to comply with the new rules stating if you don't take chip cards, you're on the hook for any disputes.
The cards issued in the US are almost 100% chip and signature, which basically means if someone grabs your card, the only thing that can stop them from going hog wild is someone checking ID. In the rest of the world, almost 100% of cards are Chip and PIN, which means you insert the card, then enter your pin to authenticate the transaction, then remove your card.
Presently almost all US credit and debit card issuers have cut over to chip cards, but all except for a couple small banks and credit unions have gone with Chip and Signature. Doesn't change much except for eliminate mag-strip cloning... but as far as grabbing someone's wallet and going on a spending spree, we're still going to be light years behind the rest of the world.
The card issuers (as well as Visa and MC) really need to get on board with ApplePay, or come up with a universal payment technology that uses a biometric device like ApplePay does. If someone has TouchPay\AppleID on their phone, I can't see a circumstance where a purse snatching would result in a compromised account, unless someone's credit card is stored in their purse, which would be eliminated if EVERYONE took ApplePay. LOL
That hasn't been my experience. I have used Apple Pay in several places where the chip reader was not enabled.
Terminals generally support all card types. They also generally support PIN (the exceptions being mobile POSes like Square and a few others), which is probably a good thing because the new REDcards are supposedly going to be chip and PIN. The card is what controls the authentication method that's used.
Debit is a different issue though in that they're chip and PIN but only when used somewhere that can run the transactions over the debit networks (and assuming the cardholder doesn't simply push Credit or cancels out the PIN prompt). This support is not common outside of large retailers so debit cards will behave like chip and signature credit cards there.
Yeah, everyone has chip-cards now. If someone says they haven't seen them, they're living under a rock. All Chase cards, Bank of America, CapitalOne, Barclays, have all been issued as chip and signature since the beginning of the year. If you call and ask for a replacement card, you'll get a chip card.
I whole heartedly agree that it's a PAIN traveling with a card that doesn't have Chip and PIN. Chip and Signature is worthless overseas. You can't pay at the pump without chip and PIN, you can't buy tickets from the machines at train stations in Europe, and it's a big hassle. Heck, even buying from merchants some flat out will refuse to take mag-strip cards without any chip. They'll just refuse... even though its against their merchant services agreement. And your CC company will just say "tell them they have to" lol, as if they care.
I travel the world 2 weeks out of the month, and having chip and PIN is far superior to chip and signature. The only large bank that I've found that'll issue true Chip-And-PIN is USAA. My Barclays card will do Chip and PIN some places, but it's set to default to signature unless it's a pin only terminal, so it's a hassle as well. USAA all the way.
Places have turned on NFC without turning on chip. However, those places can't currently tell that anything other than a card swipe happened so they're still using magstripe policies (hence why PIN/signature are still asked for).
Yes, it's been my experience that the card will work most places, but the rub is that if it doesn't work, you're kind of screwed. And when it does work, it's annoying when the person ringing you up has to figure out where you'd sign, because they literally have nowhere for you to sign. I saw a lot of the "Oh, what do I do with this?" facial expression on my last trip to London, and quite a lot of confusion in Dubrovnik.
Regarding Red Cards, those are just target cards. They don't offer Visa cards like they used to, so I don't really care about that. I have no desire in carrying a card that can only be used at one store.
Another benefit of Chip and PIN is online transactions. In europe, online merchants ask for a pin... lot harder for a thief to have your card number AND pin than your card number and zip code.
You brought up and issue that I hadn't even thought of, Square. There are so many Square, and Intuit, and other branded personal readers out there, I wonder if they're going to all have to redevelop to accommodate chip cards. I guess they already hold the seller responsible for any charge backs "guilty by default" as it is, so maybe they don't care?
This may depend on where you travel exactly. From what I hear the UK doesn't really have problems with chip and signature. It does suck that kiosks aren't reliable enough with American cards though.
France is far worse than the UK, LOL. They have big signs in their train stations "No Chip Card? Go to ATM, Cash Only" ... it's nuts.
Well yeah, of course. It's the unmanned payment systems (train stations, gas stations, vending machines, etc) that are an issue. I didn't have as much issues in UK as I did in France, Spain, Germany, etc... And Asia, forget about it if you don't have a chip... cash only.
I heard of someone managing to get out of signing once by pretending to enter a PIN on the reader.
Sounds like all of the REDcards (debit and credit) will get chip: http://www.target.com/c/faq-ways-to-shop/-/N-4yn3w. The credit one can be used anywhere.
Square already came out with a new chip-enabled reader. It still plugs into the audio port on the iPhone though and since Visa/MC won't allow them to ask for PIN on the phone itself, the new reader doesn't support PIN at all. Chip and PIN cards will basically behave like chip and signature cards when used with Square.
It drives me nuts that the credit card companies try to make it seem like it's a good thing that they don't use PIN, with the "Yay, you don't have to remember a PIN!" line. And many of these companies are issuing chip-and-pin internationally.
I called Citi and asked if I could have a PIN to go with my card for international travel, and they told me no, even though all their cards outside of the US are chip-and-PIN.
smh
Navy Federal is the largest Credit Union in the U.S. and they recently announced they're using Chip and PIN (thankfully).
Personally I think chip and signature is a lame idea. If we're going to push a standard on everyone at least go with something universal or ultra secure (random tokenization).
That's the thing that annoys me the most about the whole EMV deal. A lot of banks are claiming "chip and PIN" but the cards still result in a signature slip the vast majority of the time. Really, the government needs to come down hard on them for deceptive advertising.
Anyway, I would try using your card at Walmart once you get it; if it doesn't ask for a PIN there even for a $2 purchase it is definitely not chip and PIN (even if there is a PIN on the card).