TD Bank Aiming to Launch Apple Pay Support in Mid-December

[kdarling]

One problem with Apple Pay adoption is Apple wanting a piece of the action.

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In the US, banks get ~1.5% to 2.5% of transactions. The banks must pay Apple 0.15% to 0.25%... or about 1/10 of the total fees charged by them and other processors.

E.g. you buy something for $100, the bank gets $1.50 to $2.50, of which they pay Apple 15 to 25 cents.

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The EU has plans to cap its banks at 0.3% for credit card transactions.

E.g. you buy something for $100, the bank gets 30 cents, of which they pay Apple 15 to 25 cents.

No way in hell they're going to pay Apple 1/2 to 5/6 of their revenue.

 

[scapegoat81]

Too late. I closed 2 accounts & moved onto Wells Fargo

 

[ipedro]

I doubt TD will be the first to offer ApplePay in Canada. They're the absolute worst of the major Canadian banks on the App Store. They've never had a truly native app, it's just a portal to their web back end. It took them forever to support the 4" aspect ratio and longer still to clean up the UI for retina... for God's sake, elements of their UI are still not retina 5 years later.

TD has no sense of efficient and beautiful mobile UI. It's so bad that after waiting a couple of years for an improvement, I closed all my personal and business accounts that I'd had with TD for over a decade. I got the sense that the bank and its mobile effort were managed by a bunch of old bankers with no sense for the new mobile internet or some guy who was hired to design the first TD website in the 90s and just stuck around and was allowed to do what he thinks is right.

Today, I'm very happy with Scotiabank but my guess is that CIBC might be the first with ApplePay — they've always been at the cutting edge since the beginning of the App Store.

 

[Casiotone]

Won't come to Canada anytime soon. They want their own mobile payment systems.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/apple-pay-not-expected-in-canada-any-time-soon-1.2815748
http://www.itbusiness.ca/article/apple-pay-coming-to-canada-may-be-dependent-on-banks-deal
http://www.iphoneincanada.ca/news/td-bank-cio-apple-pay/

We'll see.

It's just like carriers hate the iPhone and prefer Android because they can control the experience and can add they own apps and branding. But the thing is, once one of the banks gives up and decides to adopt Apple Pay to steal customers away from the other banks, the others will want to do the same so they can say "We have Apple pay too!".

 

[ipedro]

Credit Cards in Canada can act on their own

I asked my financial planner and he said that given the regulations in Canada and the ongoing plans of banks to introduce their own mobile payment systems, it's unlikely that ApplePay will come to Canada through banks as they have in the US.

However, there's hope because credit card companies can act on their own. They don't care if somebody carries plastic in their wallets or if they're virtually carrying it in their iPhone. They're happy as long as they're processing the payments.

MasterCard has its own NFC SIM card system with several banks so we might see VISA or AMEX get to it first. Initially, they'll introduce specific credit card products for ApplePay and when that proves popular, they'll extend it to the rest of their lineup and finally when banks' own systems fail, they'll get on board with VISA debit and subsequently with their own standard debit cards.

Alternatively, a smaller bank might see ApplePay as an opportunity to differentiate themselves like AT&T and Rogers did with the initial iPhone exclusivity and offer it first. Tangerine is owned by Scotiabank, otherwise they'd be the perfect candidate to use ApplePay to go up against the big banks.

 

[ipedro]

Also, it just occurred to me that Apple doesn't need the banks at all to bring Apple Pay into Canada. They could partner with INTERAC, which is a non profit, independent debit payment system that all banks in Canada adhere to. INTERAC is the middle man between merchants and the banks. If INTERAC accepts ApplePay, then all banks would automatically do so as well.

Why would INTERAC accept ApplePay? Lower liability for one. The secure element and TouchID significantly lower the possibility of fraud. That lowers insurance rates. Again, it's a non profit organization so savings from lower liability rates would be passed on to merchants and banks. Everybody wins.

It might take some time for all this to play out but I see several avenues for ApplePay to come into Canada. Apple is on record with saying that they plan to roll out to other countries (without mentioning which) over the next several months and into 2015. Canada is certainly an excellent candidate for a relatively quick rollout given the existing widespread infrastructure.

 

[kdarling]

Also, it just occurred to me that Apple doesn't need the banks at all to bring Apple Pay into Canada. They could partner with INTERAC, which is a non profit, independent debit payment system that all banks in Canada adhere to. INTERAC is the middle man between merchants and the banks. If INTERAC accepts ApplePay, then all banks would automatically do so as well.

As a non-profit, Interac charges a flat ~ $0.006 (6/10ths of a penny) per transaction.

That would have to almost double, if they accepted Apple Pay with its current Apple fee of 1/2 cent per debit transaction.

Why would INTERAC accept ApplePay? Lower liability for one. The secure element and TouchID significantly lower the possibility of fraud. That lowers insurance rates.

Isn't Canada already using EMV cards with PINs? The cards already have the equivalent of a Secure Element inside.

The account tokenization helps much more to prevent using hacked number databases for internet purchases.

 

[alirz]

Sure we have the tech here to support Apple pay in Canada. The problem is that every single large institution of any sort here, e.g mobile carriers. banks, oil producers(gas market) everything is driven by greed and the desire to control and squeeze everything possible from the consumer.
The system is not designed to benefit the consumer rather its there to benefit the big guys.
The banks dont want to allow Apple pay here because they want to or are forced to work with mobile carriers to use their own crappy SIM card based NFC mobile payment systems.Pure Greed.

 

[ipedro]

Sure we have the tech here to support Apple pay in Canada. The problem is that every single large institution of any sort here, e.g mobile carriers. banks, oil producers(gas market) everything is driven by greed and the desire to control and squeeze everything possible from the consumer.
The system is not designed to benefit the consumer rather its there to benefit the big guys.
The banks dont want to allow Apple pay here because they want to or are forced to work with mobile carriers to use their own crappy SIM card based NFC mobile payment systems.Pure Greed.

Read my posts above: Credit card companies can and probably will adopt ApplePay themselves without having to involve the banks. INTERAC could do so by itself as well. Both have insurance and competitive incentives to adopt ApplePay.

 

[jm001]

TD Bank sucks. Their ATM fees for non-customers is $3.00 per withdrawal (which is highway robbery), and for those unlucky enough to be customers there is now a fee to withdraw cash from ATMs in Wawa convenience stores. Never used to be.

I remember years ago a senator or congresscrook was investigating high ATM withdrawal fees. That investigation went nowhere (though I'm sure his pockets were fattened up nicely).

Business is business. The only part that sucks about it is if you're a non-customer, but then you always have the freedom NOT to use a TD machine. If you are a TD customer then no fees. As for Wawa convenience stores, that's between TD and the stores.

 

[EllieV]

Also, it just occurred to me that Apple doesn't need the banks at all to bring Apple Pay into Canada. They could partner with INTERAC, which is a non profit, independent debit payment system that all banks in Canada adhere to. INTERAC is the middle man between merchants and the banks. If INTERAC accepts ApplePay, then all banks would automatically do so as well.

Why would INTERAC accept ApplePay? Lower liability for one. The secure element and TouchID significantly lower the possibility of fraud. That lowers insurance rates. Again, it's a non profit organization so savings from lower liability rates would be passed on to merchants and banks. Everybody wins.

It might take some time for all this to play out but I see several avenues for ApplePay to come into Canada. Apple is on record with saying that they plan to roll out to other countries (without mentioning which) over the next several months and into 2015. Canada is certainly an excellent candidate for a relatively quick rollout given the existing widespread infrastructure.

So INTERAC uses NFC to process payments from the NFC chip, right? So could one theoretically pay with Apple Pay (with a US card) at a merchant terminal where it says INTERAC is accepted? Because I'm a US student in Canada with TD Bank (US), and TD Bank does not charge any currency conversion fees (just converts the currency fairly), I hope to use Apple Pay for most of my payments. here.

And some people were complaining that this bank, considering it is a US subsidiary of a Canadian company, isn't supporting Apple Pay in Canada. But do we even know of Apple is even allowing foreign proposals yet? Aren't they using (at least wave one of) Apple Pay in the US as a test-drive?
The credit card situation in Canada is certainly different, but Apple could take a similar (or lower) chunk out of the 1.5% interchange fee.

I also agree with the poster kdarling that it is already using the EMV chip so it's secure. But @kdarling, it does reduce unauthorized use, as for small purchases, I have not had to put in my pin, I guess as it is seen as a slow pain, so my identity wasn't verified, but it would be with Touch ID in Apple Pay, while remaining the same speed.

 

[DeepIn2U]

Well that sucks, given that tap to pay is pretty common in Canada.

Yup.

Should bring it here first if anything

you DO know the reason for this right?

BlackBerry's NOC underlies the payment systems that banks, Moneris payment terminals and all Big3 providers, along with Visa/MasterCard uses here across Canada.
Rogers, Telus & Bell Mobility's NFCSIM is the standard here.
SureTap, NFCSIM


Rogers SureTap
Rogers/MasterCard: http://www.rogers.com/web/content/suretap?setLanguage=en

Bell Mobility:
RBC, TD, Desjardins and CIBC
(interestingly both Debit and Credit Cards are supported here in Canada, thus far Bell is the only one).
http://www.bell.ca/Mobility/Promotions/Mobile-Payments/FAQ.tab







Telus & CIBC/DeJardins/TDBank:
http://www.telus.com/en/on/mobility/sim-cards/nfc-sim/?&simKey=nfc-sim

(although there is hope ... this is for HTC One M8 thus far
http://www.telus.com/en/on/mobility/sim-cards/nfc-nano-sim/

EDIT: Proof of BlackBerry's NOC in use within Canada with said above providers, NFCSIM payment systems.
Correct Link: Posted:Jun 12, 2014 10:49 AM ET
http://www.cbc.ca/m/touch/business/story/1.2673315
^ that shows the announcement with the Big3 providers in Canada, a 3yr deal. This may slow down or accelerate ApplePay in Canada as I don't think this deal is exclusive.


http://www.cbc.ca/m/touch/business/story/1.2673315
Follow the ABOVE link to read and select the link for "Read about Square coming to Canada" or go directly here:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/t...-square-mobile-pay-system-to-canada-1.1137954

The BlackBerry maker has been chosen by EnStream, a company set up by Canada's three largest wireless networks, to provide the security infrastructure that would make the substitute for debit and credit cards at checkouts work.

"We think that the Canadian market is uniquely situated to probably be one of the early adopting markets for cashless or contactless payment solutions," RIM's Canadian managing director, Andrew MacLeod, said in an interview.

"We think this is the perfect opportunity for this type of technology to really get a footprint and get traction."

The launch plan for Canada involves getting merchants on board, so they can accept the cards people already have en masse in their pockets — Visa and MasterCard — "and then bringing more of this [VIP experience] as quickly as we can," says Jack Dorsey (Twitter co-founder).

 

[ipedro]

I spoke with the manager of my Scotiabank who I have a good relationship with. I asked him about ApplePay and joked that I would leave him if another bank comes out with it first. He smiled and said "Then, I think you'll be banking with us for a long time".

 

[Jeff Meredith]

MCX Hurry up and Fail

Was wondering that same thing. Could it be that all of us ApplePay Users / Supporters have knocked the wind out of their sails (sales ) before they even got started?

for Free Enterprise and voting with our $$$!

You were talking about the Merchant Customer Exchange and CurrentC application. It's suppose to come out in the first half of 2015 and I hope it hurries up and falls flat on its face. Many of the MCX members already have NFC POS equipment installed so they could quickly turn it on. Meijer already did this, I guess they just never turned it off. But Target, BestBuy, Circle K, RiteAid, CVS for example could turn on their NFC tomorrow.

The MCX wants to have direct links to your bank account like a debit card. This way the merchants can pay lesser fees. Although credit cards are a cost, they do give the customer fraud protection which they appreciate.

But there is a huge trust factor both with the consumer and the banks. MCX members, Target, Home Depot, Michaels have been hacked and we know Jimmy Johns, Bebe, Neiman Marcus, PF Changs amongst others have been hacked. I want the merchants too concentrate on their products and give me the most secure method possible for payment. That is Pay for now, which is Chip and Pin with a Biometric Pin option, your finger/thumb print.