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I've just got to add my weight to the "this is a poor redesign" camp.

Really can't see any advantages in the new look, except the less reflective screen perhaps.

I guess 'iThin' makes for cheaper transport and storing for Apple; whip-ee-do for everyone else.
 
I think Apple has an agenda when it comes to the iMac
Let's take a look at what's happened over the last few years.

1. OSX has adopted some features which make it similar to IOS. I believe Apple wants a transition between the two.
2. Earlier models of iMacs could easily have their RAM and HD upgraded by the user to extend the current machines life.
3. Apple dumps the Superdrive as they consider it now to be a legacy device.
4. The iMac becomes thinner than ever before.

I think Apple will move to a touch based screen eventually in the iMacs. They will turn them into a hybrid iPad/iMac Computer. The turning point maybe OS 11
 
Yeah, that was my main concern about it. What I've heard was that Apple blocked off access to the drive entirely, and set it so cracking open the case yourself voided the warrant. That's what I didn't like. But if if that isn't true, then hey...no complaints.

It'd be nice if it were easier to get into from the back, but considering replacing the drive would be something I do, maybe, twice at the very most over the course of 3-4 years, it isn't that big of a deal.

I'll read up on it to make sure and wait for the 27" breakdown videos before I make my final decision, though.

No argument there.

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The warranty terms and conditions is where we get this idea. It's pretty clear. I am not sure where some of you got the idea that it's ok to replace the hard drive in an iMac by yourself.

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Yes, neither would I. Hence why we should always read the actual terms and conditions of the warranty instead of spreading misinformation.

Just to repeat

(g) to an Apple Product that has been modified to alter functionality or capability without the written permission of Apple;

Still looking for something that means you're voiding your warranty by replacing an internal component, such as RAM or HDD, with a standard, off the shelf, replacement part. If you were to try water-proofing it, or cutting holes in the case for pimp-lighting, *that* would be "modified to alter functionality or capability". Having RAM/HDD in place is *part* of standard functionality and capability.

So, how about *understanding* the terms of the warranty rather than spreading misinformation.

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4. What kind of activities are excluded from my warranty coverage?
Apple’s One-Year Limited Warranty for iMac excludes coverage for damage resulting from a number of events, including accident, liquid spill or submersion, unauthorized service and unauthorized modifications. If damage is outside the scope of warranty coverage, service may be available through a local AASP or an Apple retail store, but all service charges will be your responsibility. In such an event, you will be asked to approve the estimated charges and accept the terms and conditions for service before authorizing the repair. If the repair is performed at an Apple retail store Apple's Repair Terms and Conditions will govern service. Repair service for a iMac that has experienced catastrophic damage, for example extensive liquid damage or a severe impact that results in the product being disassembled into multiple pieces, is generally not available and not eligible for service.


This is from the iMac-FAQ......

The warranty doesn't stop because you've performed work on it yourself. It specifically says:
...excludes coverage for damage resulting from a number of events...

If there isn't any damage resulting from the following list of events, then the warranty is still just fine. And, even if there *was* damage from one of those events, the warranty simply doesn't cover *that* damage. (Exactly as I said.)

Don't seize on a few words and ignore the important qualifiers. In the US, no company has been legally able to kill their warranties because of installation of after-market parts for at least a couple *decades* now. (Car manufacturers used to try it, but they consistently got slapped down in court. It's a well-decided bit of legal precedent.) They won't be covering the parts you swapped in, because they didn't sell those. They also won't be covering any damage you did in the *process* of swapping those parts in. Everything else will still be covered just fine.
 
blah blah blah
Seriously? Please read the rest of the discussion after that post. It explains why this isn't just replacing the hard drive with an off the shelf product, because Apple makes it impossible to just replace the hard drive with an off the shelf model due to the use of propriety cables, hard drive firmware and temperature sensors. Apple considers the hard drive to be non user serviceable. Point G says what will happen if you try to upgrade non-user serviceable parts.

I refer you to posts 390, 403, 406 and 413
 
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Because they don't believe it will be successful for them. .

So your saying Apple is inferior to ASUS and HP? They can't design a profitable AIO machine? HP and ASUS did. I doubt that, Apple is a great company, but this is just retarded that they won't allow users to open up their own machines, its greed.

You have to consider all of the costs, not just the upfront assembly, parts and shipping, but also the support costs.

Every other PC OEM gets along just fine with selling machines that can be repaired at upgraded, why can't Apple?

Allowing people to upgrade brings the extra risk of people damaging things and trying to claim on warranty.

People wanting to upgrade machines they paid good money for? What a bunch of *******s.

Steve Jobs was always against it, even back in the early days of Apple

And where did the Mac go? Nowhere, it wasn't until the iDevices that Apple took off.

f it was up to him, we wouldn't even have third-party apps on iOS.

And if we didn't, the iPhone would be dead in the water, and wouldn't be produced anymore. Good thing he didn't get his way.

He considered add ons and changes, whether they are hardware or software, to take away from the purity of *his* design.

The funny thing about Steve Jobs, is that save for the early days of Apple, he didn't actually create or Design anything. Mid 90s on, that was Ive.


I think its insane, that someone would buy a 1500 dollar machine that can't be repaired, upgraded, or serviced by the user.
 
You don't know what type of tape Apple is using. Plus Apple has no idea either how long this "tape" will be effective for. Just cutting corners again for Apple and cheapening the brand at every turn since Job's passing imo. Maps, iPadmini, scratchgate, so on and so on.... 3 things Job's would of gone bonkers over.

Right. Apple, the people who specced out the requirements for the parts that went into the machine, have no idea how long the adhesives on the tape will be effective. Obviously, industrial adhesives are 'black magic', and nobody know how they work, so obviously *nobody* knows how long it'll stay good.

The sticky side of a roll of *scotch tape* will stay sticky for *years* unless it's exposed to the air, with all of the floating dust and particulates which (strangely enough) stick to it. The adhesives holding the glass to the case aren't exposed to particulate-filled air. They're sandwiched between the case and the glass. They're not likely to lose their adhesive properties for two decades or more.

If you're so concerned about the reliability of industrial adhesives, I hope you use a horse as your means of transportation, because a surprising number of car and even *airplane* parts are held in place with adhesives. (The windows of many commercial jets are literally glued in place because it places less strain on the skin of the plane that way, thereby *reducing* the risk of catastrophic failure. The older method, rivets/screws, was actually the *cause* of several plane crashes, when micro-fractures around the resulting stress points opened up, causing part of the cabin to peel away in flight.)
 
So your saying Apple is inferior to ASUS and HP? They can't design a profitable AIO machine? HP and ASUS did. I doubt that, Apple is a great company, but this is just retarded that they won't allow users to open up their own machines, its greed.
I am not sure why you're arguing with me, since I agree with you.

Every other PC OEM gets along just fine with selling machines that can be repaired at upgraded, why can't Apple?
PC OEMs can usually only be repaired with specific OEM supplied parts. For example if your Dell's power supply blows, then you have to get an overpriced Dell power supply, since a normal after-market one won't fit. The fact that we can't replace a hard drive in an iMac is criminal. This is my entire argument in this thread.

People wanting to upgrade machines they paid good money for? What a bunch of *******s.
Indeed.

And where did the Mac go? Nowhere, it wasn't until the iDevices that Apple took off.
Indeed


And if we didn't, the iPhone would be dead in the water, and wouldn't be produced anymore. Good thing he didn't get his way.
Indeed

The funny thing about Steve Jobs, is that save for the early days of Apple, he didn't actually create or Design anything. Mid 90s on, that was Ive.
Indeed. That is why I put *s around his.

I think its insane, that someone would buy a 1500 dollar machine that can't be repaired, upgraded, or serviced by the user.
Indeed.
 
I think it's pretty ridiculous that you can't even upgrade the RAM easily. Bad move by Apple.

They should offer free RAM/HD upgrades/replacements in the stores if they are going to make the iMAC like this.

Guess I'm waiting on the mythical Mac Pro next year and praying...
 
Just sucks they can't freaking make a mid sized tower for $1299 or so. It would be profitable since they can command more of a premium than HP or Dell does. Be cheaper for them to do than the mini which is just a strange form factor to me.

Not a hackintosh guy, not down with that route.

so F!!!! I guess.
 
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Wouldn't it be nice if Apple used their huge engineering and design expertise to produce something akin to a mid-range tower (though obviously more elegant) which had the functionality of the current iMac but allowed for future upgrading of memory / HDD / GPU / optical drive etc. without recourse to specialist tools? No chance. Its just not the Apple way.

Of course this sort of flexibility is why the Microsoft clones were so dominant in the last computer 'generation', until they lost their way due to their unreliable virus-prone software / OS.

Apple will only twig that we're with them because of their robust OS and not their anorexic over-priced hardware when customers switch to an alternative system. But I can't see one at the moment. Can you?
 
I am not sure why you're arguing with me, since I agree with you.

.

Oh I didn't realize it, I'm sorry.

PC OEMs can usually only be repaired with specific OEM supplied parts. For example if your Dell's power supply blows, then you have to get an overpriced Dell power supply, since a normal after-market one won't fit. The fact that we can't replace a hard drive in an iMac is criminal. This is my entire argument in this thread.

I don't do it professionally. side money. But I've served lots of Dells, HPs, Gateways, eMachines, you name it.

Unless we are talking about a very small system, or a AIO, ( not even all of them ), the vast majority of them from what I can see, will accept a standard ATX, or MicroATX power supply, or whatever form factor the machine is, can normally be found on tiger or new egg for very little money.
 
Oh I didn't realize it, I'm sorry.



I don't do it professionally. side money. But I've served lots of Dells, HPs, Gateways, eMachines, you name it.

Unless we are talking about a very small system, or a AIO, ( not even all of them ), the vast majority of them from what I can see, will accept a standard ATX, or MicroATX power supply, or whatever form factor the machine is, can normally be found on tiger or new egg for very little money.

A friend of mine had a powerful Dell and when the power supply popped just after the warranty expired Dell wanted a ridiculous amount of money to replace it. According to him it was a propriety design. He wouldn't be lying to me since this was back in the day when I was trying to convince him to go Mac and he knows his way around computers. I have never actually owned an OEM PC, except laptops. I built all my computers before I started using Macs, so I am far from an expert in OEM PCs, but I have always had the impression that there is a variety of propriety parts in there that are only available from the OEM.
 
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A friend of mine had a powerful Dell and when the power supply popped just after the warranty expired Dell wanted a ridiculous amount of money to replace it. According to him it was a propriety design. He wouldn't be lying to me since this was back in the way when I was trying to convince him to go Mac and he knows his way around computers. I have never actually owned an OEM PC, except laptops. I built all my computers before I started using Macs, so I am far from an expert in OEM PCs, but I have always had the impression that there is a variety of propriety parts in there that are only available from the OEM.

Yes and no, some do some don't, lets take Dell, some Dells do, some dells do not.

I have yet to encounter a Mid Tower dell that won't accept an ATX power supply, now if it was a higher end XPS, it might have just needed a very powerful power supply to run ( some of them have 1200 watt PSUs in them ), which are just plain expensive to start with.
 
Wouldn't it be nice if Apple used their huge engineering and design expertise to produce something akin to a mid-range tower

They do. It's kind of obvious that they can do it - it's not rocket science and for proof just look at the Mac Pro. Now make it smaller, replace the Xeon CPUs with normal desktop CPUs and voila: you have the computer that you're talking about. It's not a case of not being able to do it; it's a question of whether they want to and they clearly don't see the market for it. If they did, then they would make it.

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Yes and no, some do some don't, lets take Dell, some Dells do, some dells do not.

I have yet to encounter a Mid Tower dell that won't accept an ATX power supply, now if it was a higher end XPS, it might have just needed a very powerful power supply to run ( some of them have 1200 watt PSUs in them ), which are just plain expensive to start with.

Yep, it was a very expensive XPS.
 
...but I have always had the impression that there is a variety of propriety parts in there that are only available from the OEM.

It depends on which model you get. Like with Dell, the older Optiplex systems could be serviced by the user from top to bottom (though I think the later ones used BTX mobos), but some of their clamshell cases used weird parts that were hard to get ahold of.

I'm pretty much like you, though. Save for my first "real" computer, which was a Gateway, I've built every single one of my PCs myself. In my opinion, a little more work up front is worth the trouble you'll be saving yourself from later. I like knowing every part I've got in my machine, and how to quickly replace it if I need to. It's one of the reasons why I'm having so much trouble moving to a prebuilt setup now. It's weird to me just getting a computer, plugging it in right out of the box, and hoping for the best for the next 3-4 years.
 
I think the problem that people have is that Apple makes questionable/bad choices regarding hardware/design and people can't get OSX any other way. It doesn't speak well of Ive's stale designs when people desire the software more than the hardware.

The iMacs have a history of being difficult to upgrade, some more than others, but this isn't a new direction for Apple. People have had ample time to adjust or quit. So my point still sticks, while inconvenient, you can choose not to buy.

I'm not saying we can't say that we think it's bad choice for Apple, I'm just saying that there are some people who make it seem like they are being shafted, and that's just plain stupid, no one is being forced here.
 
I'm not saying we can't say that we think it's bad choice for Apple, I'm just saying that there are some people who make it seem like they are being shafted, and that's just plain stupid, no one is being forced here.

I don't think it'd be such a big deal if Apple gave people a few more options in the Mac line. Right now, you've got a choice between a low end Mac Mini, a nice consumer high end iMac that's difficult to upgrade, or an upgradeable, but currently overpriced for what you're getting 2009 Mac Pro.

Maybe things'll change later if and when they release the new Pro, but they don't have that good of a spread right now.
 
Imacs since day one do you even own one??

I think the commenter is just sighing about the fact that these road-burner parts have been gimped to suit the form factor. I need a Mac workstation, but don't need dual CPUs. It would be nice if Apple made a machine that you could chuck in desktop RAM, HDDs, CPUs and graphics cards.

I wonder how long it will be before they ditch Intel altogether and use A6 (or whatever) across the board - purely for the sake of the form factor - a criterion that is irrelevant to me.
 
Apple need to offer 5 year AppleCare on this machine, as a non-warranty repair is going to be uneconomical for businesses. Especially now they're putting 2.5" HDDs in them. We buy 5 year warranty on all our Windows PCs and laptops but its not an option for Apple computers.
 
I can't believe we're talking about power supplies of Dells!! Here's the reality as I see it. $119 buys you a kit to DIY the 21.5" iMac memory. Apple will do it for you at $200. In the factory. So for $80, on a machine I plan to use for 3-4 years, I know what I'd be doing if I was going 21.5".

On the HDD user interchangeability, I feel your pain. BUT it only applies to 0.01% of iMac users. And importantly, don't be expecting BOTH Apple's class leading customer care AND the freedom to poke around under the bonnet. Would Toyota have honoured its 5 year warranties if you'd replaced the break system DIY in your own garage?
 
Very good point you bring up ... the Worldwide crisis. What most people don't seem to understand that it's a direct consequence to fossil fuel scarcity, and the simple fact that Oil, our primary source of energy, now costs five times as much it always has. Consider the Export Land Model (ELM) - a mathematical construct based on total exports available to importers. There are currently about 157 oil importing nations - including China and India (referred to as Chindia) who are trending upwards in total imports against what is a declining net exports available. (Why this drops is manyfold, factors include depletion, and the windfall effect (oil producers use increasing amounts of their own to fund/power their growing infrastructure/needs)). So, two lines are drawn and have been since 2005 - one going up, the other going down - and guess when they cross, meaning that Chindia will (if allowed to) consume ALL the available exports - leaving NONE for the other 155 importers including the US. Believe it or not, that crossover point is 13 years from now!

Remember, Oil is a fungible commodity - it always goes to the highest bidder once on the market. And guess who's going to bid the most? Not you and I buying Apple computers and hopping into our 3-ton SUVs to Walmart to buy a plastic pumpkin! It's going to be the billions of Chindians pooling together their resources to cover their cooking needs, their emergency transportation needs, and so on. We are in the US, remember, just five percent of the world's population - there's that whole other 95% out there - we will become irrelevant in the years to come.

No matter what you hear, the ELM constitutes the most important thing to consider in the world - and think about it - ten years from now we'll all be out of a job - we'll not be cruising the highways like today - many will begin to starve rich and poor alike. And please, oh please, don't start pointing at North Dakota ... the oil found there is merely a substitute of what was once the Prudhoe Basin's oil - and it's soon to bust - they're already in a "scam the public" mode as they play the stock market to keep themselves afloat. (Research Chesapeake, and how they're bungling to the tune of billions!)

Granted, we do produce 8 million barrels per day of oil, but we also import nine and export one of those as refined products - in other words, we burn through 16 million barrels of oil per day, 5,840,000,000 barrels per year - year after year ... until we can't and that day is just around the corner.

Think about it. Don't start laughing and saying what the **** is this guy talking about - I'm telling it like it is. Simple facts of life!!

We have enough oil and natural gas in this country to not have to buy a drop from anyone in our lifetime. It's not about scarcity, and neither were diamonds for that matter. This is a much larger discussion that has nothing to do with computers, so let's move on.
 
On the HDD user interchangeability, I feel your pain. BUT it only applies to 0.01% of iMac users. And importantly, don't be expecting BOTH Apple's class leading customer care AND the freedom to poke around under the bonnet. Would Toyota have honoured its 5 year warranties if you'd replaced the break system DIY in your own garage?

If swapping out an HDD was similar to replacing their brake system with one you built in your garage, I'd agree with you. Really, it's more like swapping out your headlights. They're designed to be modular.
 
Wouldn't it be nice if Apple used their huge engineering and design expertise to produce something akin to a mid-range tower (though obviously more elegant) which had the functionality of the current iMac but allowed for future upgrading of memory / HDD / GPU / optical drive etc. without recourse to specialist tools? No chance. Its just not the Apple way.

Of course this sort of flexibility is why the Microsoft clones were so dominant in the last computer 'generation', until they lost their way due to their unreliable virus-prone software / OS.

Apple will only twig that we're with them because of their robust OS and not their anorexic over-priced hardware when customers switch to an alternative system. But I can't see one at the moment. Can you?

They did, many years ago - the PowerMacs 8600 and 9600 as well as the Quadra 840av were particularly beautiful designs and easily upgradable.

Let's face it, fellas: it's all downhill from now on...with Tim at the helm, APPLE IS DEAD.
 
It depends on which model you get. Like with Dell, the older Optiplex systems could be serviced by the user from top to bottom (though I think the later ones used BTX mobos), but some of their clamshell cases used weird parts that were hard to get ahold of.

I'm pretty much like you, though. Save for my first "real" computer, which was a Gateway, I've built every single one of my PCs myself. In my opinion, a little more work up front is worth the trouble you'll be saving yourself from later. I like knowing every part I've got in my machine, and how to quickly replace it if I need to. It's one of the reasons why I'm having so much trouble moving to a prebuilt setup now. It's weird to me just getting a computer, plugging it in right out of the box, and hoping for the best for the next 3-4 years.

Yeah, to this day, Dell Towers, Mid Towers, and Mini towers are still user serviceable 100%,

The little tiny ones use strange parts because they just have to.

And I feel your pain, besides my macs, I typically build my own machines, when I bought my Gaming power from GAMEPC, it was so strange to open a box containing a PC, and just open it it and set it up...strange...
 
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