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gregdrummeraz

macrumors 6502
Jun 7, 2007
396
0
Glendale, az
hmmm..

to whom it may concern. I have a drum set and a macbook



ok plus a tennis ball and 6 month old slurplie cup that has some soda/ syrup in it..



just to let you guy's know.



:confused:
 

blackfox

macrumors 65816
Feb 18, 2003
1,210
4,574
PDX
Well with FWD, you got to teach the teen how to deal with understeer and torque steer. Each has their characteristics. Frankly, I would rather have the rear pop out. It is much easier to get out of then a front skid, IMHO. If you teach the teen how to deal with the RWD " dangerous" characteristics, wouldn't it make the teen a better driver?
As the proud owner of a Saab (my fourth), I find both understeer and torque steer very manageable (and sometimes desireable) traits in an automobile.

Sorry to the OP for the tangent.
 

ErikCLDR

macrumors 68000
Jan 14, 2007
1,795
0
I think most teenage girl drivers are better than boys because they are more cautious and less stupid. It sounds to me like your niece is an over indulged child that needs to take some responsibility for once in her life.

My Land Rover has a 188hp 4.0 V8 w/250 ft lbs of torque. Combined with its massive weight (4600lbs or something) = 0-60 in 10.2 seconds. It's not going anywhere fast. It is just silly that they put a "sport mode" button on the transmission.

Land Rovers are great 1st cars. They're extremely slow and pretty safe believe it or not. Additionally you're child won't stray to far from home because they get horrible gas milage so they won't be able to afford to go far and the vehicle is liable to break down. How much better of car can you get.
 

juanm

macrumors 68000
May 1, 2006
1,624
3,053
Fury 161
to whom it may concern. I have a drum set and a macbook
ok plus a tennis ball and 6 month old slurplie cup that has some soda/ syrup in it..

As long as you don't run red lights and stop signs with your drums, we won't consider you a public threat.
Although the tennis ball is clearly a sign that you're spoiled. When I was your age I didn't even have a ping pong ball!
 

Techguy172

macrumors 68000
Feb 2, 2007
1,782
0
Ontario Canada
It's more than how much horsepower of how big of an engine they have. I remember my dad's old '99 S80 it had the T6 268 HP that doesn't seem like a whole lot compared to a mustang or a GT500 for that matter but this thing would probably excellerate faster. It has a Twin Turbo In-line 6 cylinder. and when you wanted to go it would be off, and mind you this was also a FWD car and it still would fly.

I don't think it matters how fast the car if your son/daughter is responsible they could be driving a Ferrari for god sakes and they wouldn't speed or drive irresponsibly it all matters on the person driving. I think the OP's niece is just very irresponsible.
 

cleanup

macrumors 68030
Jun 26, 2005
2,643
10
Toronto
I moved to China when I was 15 and I never got the chance to learn how to drive. Now I'm 18, living in Toronto, and although I would love to have a car, I'd probably **** it up pretty fast, and it would cost me a ******** in insurance and parking costs. Considering the fact that I am still a jobless first-year, I'm glad I'm not one of those kids.

My parents would buy me a car though. They bought my brother a new Acura TL when he graduated from uni. Granted, he'd already been driving for a while, with no incidences. But whenever I was in his old car (2001 Pontiac Grand Am) with him, he'd always try to speed a little bit/rev the engine. I was like 13/14 so I got a bit edgy...

Maybe my brother has turned me off driving =) Oh well. I like walking to class.

[edit] On a side note, if I did get a car, I'd get one of these:

30228_BYC_big.jpg


But I promise daddy, I'll take gooooood care of it![/edit]
 

iDAG

macrumors 65816
Sep 9, 2007
1,064
0
Athens, Ohio
I think most teenage girl drivers are better than boys because they are more cautious and less stupid. It sounds to me like your niece is an over indulged child that needs to take some responsibility for once in her life.

That is not true, I know more girls in high school that have crashed their car than dudes who have. Dudes love their cars and in turn take better care of them.

[edit] On a side note, if I did get a car, I'd get one of these:

snip

But I promise daddy, I'll take gooooood care of it![/edit]

I have that car, except it is the 2001 model and it's dark blue. :cool:
 

SkyBell

macrumors 604
Sep 7, 2006
6,603
219
Texas, unfortunately.
You guys don't have to worry about me, my car (when I actully get it fully paid off; my parents didn't pay for $1 of it) is a 1990 Toyota pickup, with a 102 HP engine, and I don't even know what it's 0-60 time is, because I'm not sure it goes that fast. :p
 

d_and_n5000

macrumors 6502a
Oct 6, 2005
631
0
You guys don't have to worry about me, my car (when I actully get it fully paid off; my parents didn't pay for $1 of it) is a 1990 Toyota pickup, with a 102 HP engine, and I don't even know what it's 0-60 time is, because I'm not sure it goes that fast. :p
Ahh, don't say that. We've got ourselves a Honda Odyssey with a four cylinder, and from how my parents drive on the interstate its surprisingly easy to speed in. :p It's 38HP larger, but if my parents can get up to 75 with a minivan loaded with people and stuff, than you won't have a problem getting that truck to 60.

Might take you a while, though.:D
 

LumbermanSVO

macrumors 65816
Mar 15, 2007
1,234
622
Denton, TX
As a truck driver I see more stupid stuff on the roads than you can imagine.

I say we take away everyones privelege to drive and start from scratch. This time around we need to make it much harder to get a license and MUCH easier to lose(and your car) it once you have it. It also needs to be a lot more expensive. This goes for CDL holders as well.

This alone would fix a lot of things, especially peoples belief that they can do whatever they want, without consequence, behind the wheel.

As for parents giving their kids cars, I think most of the time it is a rediculoys practice. Yes, there are situations where is a good idea, most of the time, not so much. Giving them high performance cars is just asking for trouble.
 

swmr

macrumors regular
Jan 22, 2008
172
0
Penn State
As a truck driver I see more stupid stuff on the roads than you can imagine.

I say we take away everyones privelege to drive and start from scratch. This time around we need to make it much harder to get a license and MUCH easier to lose(and your car) it once you have it. It also needs to be a lot more expensive. This goes for CDL holders as well.


Agreed. I think that state laws should require a retest at 1 yr. or maybe even 6 months for a new driver. I know plenty of my friends would pass, but I can name a bunch more who would probably lose a license. It will never happen though. Lawmakers would never want to blame themselves, or put themselves through a retest, so they will just increase restrictions on teen drivers and/or make it harder to get a license.

Also, I am told that the same teen driver statistics apply to seniors. But nobody ever hears about those fatalities on the news, so they don't make the same assumptions. Information could be wrong though.
 

faintember

macrumors 65816
Jun 6, 2005
1,362
0
the ruins of the Cherokee nation
While I think that saying the title of the thread is misleading would be the understatement of the year, I do think there is some fault in the OP's family as well as others that mindlessly let their children drive high hp/SUV's etc. without careful consideration. The parents need to be knowledgeable enough to know cars, how to handle high hp cars and also have a firm grasp on their child's demeanor, so as to make a reasonable decision if Johnny or Jane can handle a fast car. The rest of the responsibility falls onto the child, for them to actually spend the time and effort to learn how to drive properly, and then possibly learn how to handle a high hp car.

My situation was probably different than most, in that my family, starting with my great-grandfather, were heavily involved with automobiles and were avid, legal, racers. While I find my father and my grandfather's driving skills to be abysmal (and their driving records prove it) I have never had a driving violation, and I too was raised as a racer, driving in drag racing, oval track and autocross. I also paid to go to several driving schools to learn how to deal with hydroplaning, high speed maneuvering, etc. The only real difference between me, and my paternal line is that I chose to be a good driver, to only answer my phone while driving in cases of emergency, etc.

As to the ones that say that "high hp + teenage driver = bad", I would have to disagree. While for most teens the high hp=bad statement may be true, it is not true for all teen drivers. My first street car had around 425hp, and on the street the fastest it ever went was 5mph over the speed limit. IMO, we should further specify our license restrictions here in the US, so that high hp vehicles, large non-commercial vehicles/SUV's, would require special license certifications. While the above change in license restrictions would not be a perfect solution, it would be a start.
 

it5five

macrumors 65816
May 31, 2006
1,219
1
New York
This time around we need to make it much harder to get a license and MUCH easier to lose(and your car) it once you have it.

Completely agree. I don't know how it is in other states, but here in Arizona, once you get your license, you have it for ~50 years without having to retest.

It's completely absurd.
 

mahashel

macrumors 6502
May 5, 2005
272
0
"the lab"
It's been many years ago, but I still vividly remember my teen driving days.
1976 Mustang Cobra II - purchased when I was 15.
Sounds like a cool car, but anyone who's ever seen/ridden in one will be smirking slightly. It was essentially a 5L V8 Pinto. A high-powered rattletrap with bits falling off, leaking, sparking, and basically just trying to kill whoever was sitting in it. :D
I never had a ticket. The one and only accident that I had in it (which totaled the car) was when some kid was doing 50 through a parking lot in his brand-new Saturn (a gift) while making out with his girlfriend. (tangent: the Saturn brand had just come out. They were considered very new and very cool with young people)
Anyway, my point is: while I did have a hideously overpowered and dangerous vehicle, I worked my butt off to buy it and knew if I wrecked it I would be afoot for the rest of my life. ;)
To apply this to the OP post, the girl (while utterly appalling), nor the car were the real issue. To me, the issue is that it sounds like her parents GAVE the car to her. The perceived value a teen applies to an expensive gift vs. an expensive purchase is night & day. Not only in a financial sense, but also the *REALITY* of the situation; which becomes a lot more stark when sacrifice is necessary in order to have something.
 

cheeseadiddle

macrumors regular
Aug 29, 2007
186
0
and to whoever said that anything more than 252HP is too much, come on now. my rabbit has 150HP (2.5L I5) and it moves. it's not neck-snapping, but it's plenty of power for day to day.

Agree. We have a New Beetle with the same motor. Plenty of juice to get you where you wanna be, and enough to get you there quickly if that's your thing.
 

.JahJahwarrior.

macrumors 6502
Jan 1, 2007
438
0
I think one thing that is missing from training is "what you should do when you get in an accident." There should be some role playing, or videos of what to do. When I got in my first accident about a month ago (lady rear ended me, totally her fault, not mine at all. I'm 18, paid for half of my truck, a 1999 ford ranger, 2.5l engine. No tickets, got a 100 on my driving test, and pay for my own gas, insurance and car maintennance. Half of the truck was a graduation gift.) I had no clue what to do, so I called my dad and asked him. He explained to call 911....

Arguing with the guy over who's fault it was was not important. You call 911. You get them to fill out an accident report. You call your insurance agent.

Had she been shown the proper protocol to follow after an accident, perhaps she would not have done so much stupid stuff?

If I were him, I'd push charges: she hit him and ran. I'd want her to serve some jail time for that. Stupid mistake, really stupid mistake. An overnight stay in juvie would probably prevent her from doing it again :)
 

Adokimus

macrumors 6502a
Jun 2, 2007
842
3
Boston, MA
Teenage Girls With Cars Are More Lethal Than the Atomic Bomb

Wait one second... are you trying to imply they get safer with age??

:eek::eek:;)







p.s. - That niece of yours is ridiculous on so many levels that I don't know where to begin. But, I commend you on doing the right thing and making her turn around. While many people have pointed out problems with this girl (severe immaturity, irresponsibility, being given a car, being given way too nice of a car, disregard for stop signs, calling her boyfriend to do the talking for her, driving away from an accident, etc.), I think that the most important thing she can learn from this is that she can't just run away. You have to face the consequences of your actions. You can't learn responsibility without having to deal with the results of your actions. Again, I commend you on making her drive back. I can't believe how many 17 yr olds act like 6 yr olds. Oops... longer p.s. than post!
 

AlexH

macrumors 68020
Mar 7, 2006
2,035
3,151
I've seen some super spoiled brats acting like jackasses on the roads with wrecks and tickets like you wouldn't believe. Who were these kids? The ones driving clunkers they paid for (don't have to be "rich" to be spoiled). I've also seen kids driving $35k cars given to them, who showed nothing but responsibility, respect, and abided by the law.

What have I learned from my observations? It's all about parenting, not price tags.
 

Flowero4ka

macrumors regular
Jan 24, 2008
178
0
My 17 year old niece, Nina, was picking me up from the airport in her brand new Ford Mustang GT500. We drive fifteen minutes out side of the airport and she blows a stop sign, slamming some poor bastard at 45 miles per hour right in passenger side door. Nina goes out to talk to some middle aged guy in his bent Nissan. They argue about who's fault it is (clearly hers). She calls her boyfriend to get him to convince the guy that he's at fault (high school football player). She hands middle aged guy the cell phone and quickly the conversation is reduced to profanities. The guy gets his cell phone out to call the cops to settle this. Nina, jumps back in to the car and races away. I was watching up to this point, but now I feel like I have to participate. When we're about a block away, I tell her to stop the car. I drive back, profusely apologized to the middle aged man and we exchange insurance information.

I don't remember being this irresponsible when I was her age. I wonder if its just a case of bad parenting or if its something more.

I don't think it's because of age. You are right it's of bad parenting. Maybe, she is a unique girl in the family and her parents spoil her all the time. It's not she who bought the car - all these reasons prove her indifference... I know a lot of 17-year girls and boys - they are very serious and responsible for their actions.
 

Lunja

macrumors 6502
May 15, 2005
273
0
Lincoln UK
A GT500 as your FIRST car?! How much would the insurance be on that?!

And as for the discussion about how much horsepower you need, I find it quite suprising that you guys think that around 200hp is normal! In England and most of Europe the majority of cars we drive have much less power. For example my 2004 Ford Fiesta is a turbo diesel with 68hp and over 110lb/ft of torque. The torque gives you ample power to get round a truck at 50mph in fifth gear. And it does 60 mpg!

You guys in North America would be able to save so much money in gas by buying smaller diesel cars, but none of the major car companies seem to offer them to you...
 

amanda kathryn

macrumors regular
Feb 18, 2008
211
0
You guys in North America would be able to save so much money in gas by buying smaller diesel cars, but none of the major car companies seem to offer them to you...

they've been offered, people weren't interested. we had a 1982 audi 4000 diesel, my mom loved being able to commute and only fill up every two weeks. a lot of people still have a diesel stigma though, we're on a hybrid kick now.

americans don't tend to care what's practical, just what will impress the neighbors. i drive a VW rabbit (golf) which i love, i'm a hatchback person, they're much more handy than a sedan. i see VERY few rabbits and golfs in comparison to jettas, probably 1 in 30, because americans don't want to drive hatchbacks.

i'm starting to see a lot of the E85 flexfuel vehicles popping up though, hopefully this will take off.
 

Rodimus Prime

macrumors G4
Oct 9, 2006
10,136
4
they've been offered, people weren't interested. we had a 1982 audi 4000 diesel, my mom loved being able to commute and only fill up every two weeks. a lot of people still have a diesel stigma though, we're on a hybrid kick now.

americans don't tend to care what's practical, just what will impress the neighbors. i drive a VW rabbit (golf) which i love, i'm a hatchback person, they're much more handy than a sedan. i see VERY few rabbits and golfs in comparison to jettas, probably 1 in 30, because americans don't want to drive hatchbacks.

i'm starting to see a lot of the E85 flexfuel vehicles popping up though, hopefully this will take off.


You do relieze that E85 is more of a waste of oil than one that caintian none.

After you factor in the lost in gas mileage you are burning more oil than if it was 100% oil made. It is even worse when you factor in the oil and energy cost to grow the corn and make the fuel.
 
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