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Routine monthly Telegram whining.

Sounds like you are borderline against freedom of information. Telegram is used by a lot of organizations around the world to keep communication open and free. If you don't know about Telegram I suggest you read up on them before you spew negative propaganda.
 
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Let regulators decide.

Nobody is going to say "you are only allowed to make x profit margin.." but if you are making large profits and forcing third parties to use your payment systems from which you take a cut you shouldn't be surprised if that practice is banned at some point.

Why does everyone equate the 15-30% commission with that rate being what Apple charges for transaction processing. They provide a great deal more value to the developer. It's not about use of the payment system it is about the process of App submission and review.

The system is not perfect, without bias or flaws, but no one has shown a better alternative, one that would scale, that would put more money in the hands of both developers and consumers. The relationship Apple has with developers and those that buy their apps is symbiotic.
 
Apple knows if they didn't force people to use it most wouldn't, which speaks volumes.

The data does not support your claim, in fact it shows the exact opposite. What percentage of Android users install apps from alternate stores ? With Android having 85% worldwide market share, only a tiny percentage of users still only download apps from the Google Play Store.

According to Business of Apps "Outside of China, Apple and Google control more than 95 percent of the app store market share through iOS and Android, respectively."
 
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Sounds like jealousy. They just couldn’t do what Apple has done. Apple is the top dog and the App Store belongs to Apple only.

How about building your own platform?
It’s not jealousy, it’s idiocy. Seems like this guy wants 3rd party content creators to make money from their app without paying apple’s commission. I can see why apple isn’t happy about this.
 
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a
30% is not unreasonable. I remember the old days, when you had to develop, market, manufacture, and hope a distributer would take your product and a store stock and sell it. You could have a considerable investment before even making a dime, and if you did you were lucky to get 30% of the final price.

Apple removed almost all of the up front costs and risks, while giving developers access to a huge marketplace. 30%, which is a markup so developers get to set the amount they want to collect, is a bargain. I suspect, if Apple is forced o do some things people seem to want, small developers will find themselves much worse off and the big ones will happily pocket the 30% Apple used to get, while screaming when Apple does things to makeup for the loss of the 30% markup. I suspect EPIC, Telegram, etc. if Apple charged per download or had a sliding fee for signing an app so side loaded ones could access all of iOS' data.
I think 30% is very reasonable for hosting an online digital store and all its attendant costs. Forcing developers to use that store is what's unreasonable (and IMO soon to be declared illegal).
 
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I’m more annoyed at how privacy is handled differently throughout the world and requires you to have a lawyer on retainer to write up terms and conditions you have to present to each user.

(btw I’m actually a huge fan of how GDPR implemented data privacy, I’m just annoyed that certain companies will have a difficult start up hurdle because if they want to sell their services to people in certain countries, you have to have servers and data located there, which means if you want to target a wider audience from the get go, you have to invest in a multi region setup).
 
The App Store is very profitable.

There is no need for them to gouge the amount of profit they are talking when they are already making 30-40% margins on the hardware.

This is exactly why they are getting so much regulatory scrutiny.



As above. 78% margins is much more that 'covering costs'.
You are obviously basing that profit 78% margin purely on device cost vs sales and not taking into considerations store, distribution, marketing, shipping, r&d, staffing, taxes, electricity, licensing etc.
 
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Then that should change because that seems to be everyone's defense of Apple's forced practices. Maybe Apple should charge for their tools. Maybe there shouldn't be free apps (because, as you say, there are very few, if any, businesses that give away free stuff). That would be a more traditional model (which everyone here attempts to analogize).
The issue here is that from a business perspective, developers are not the end users of iPhones. Consumers are. And I find it pretty interesting that in the numerous pages of responses here, I don't seem to have picked up any discussion of what any of this means for the end user.

For what it is worth, I do genuinely feel that the App Store does offer consumers legitimate benefits in the form of better privacy, security and ease of use, flawed as it may be. However, the problem then comes when these benefits, while good for us, may not be so great for developers. For example, the ability to track my subscriptions within the App Store means that it is actually easier for consumers to terminate subscriptions, just as iTunes means that developers never actually get our payment information.

While there may be some genuine reasons for wanting to move away from the App Store or at least be able to use alternative payments, I find that more often than not, what's good for developers may not necessarily be good for consumers. That's why larger companies like Epic, Spotify and Facebook are beating the drum so hard about wanting alternative app stores and third party payment options. It's less about benefiting the consumer, and more about wresting more control for themselves, and being able to steer users to their own app stores.

I am pretty sure any potential future Facebook App Store will not incorporate ATT, for one. Will it even support Apple Pay?

And maybe as a consumer, I don't want any of this. Maybe I bought an iPhone knowing very well that it's locked down with just one App Store and maybe to me, that's a feature, not a bug.

Maybe the App Store doesn't exist for developers. It exists for us.
 
Then that should change because that seems to be everyone's defense of Apple's forced practices. Maybe Apple should charge for their tools. Maybe there shouldn't be free apps (because, as you say, there are very few, if any, businesses that give away free stuff). That would be a more traditional model (which everyone here attempts to analogize).
Shareware and freeware have been a legitimate part of the software landscape for decades.
 
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What are the bugs?
Off the top of my head, iOS:

On-screen keyboard disappears and cannot be brought back (even though the text entry field is still sitting in proper position in the middle of the screen) without exiting the chat and re-opening.

Images, GIFs, and/or stickers failing to load without force-quitting and reopening the app.

Audio recordings being sent to the wrong person (this problem appears when recording a message and finalizing it, then quickly switching to a different chat; the message is sent to the new chat instead of the chat where it was recorded). Haven't seen this one in a while, so it might have been fixed, but I also don't use audio much these days.

macOS:

No spell-check (which used to work).

The terrible UX and primitive UI design (most painful when trying to use and switch between accounts) aren't really bugs, but definitely hurt the app.
 
I think 30% is very reasonable for hosting an online digital store and all its attendant costs. Forcing developers to use that store is what's unreasonable (and IMO soon to be declared illegal).

No one is forcing developers to develop for iOS. Apple has created a lucrative market that is attrcative to developers; some of whom now want all of the pie for free.
 
The issue here is that from a business perspective, developers are not the end users of iPhones. Consumers are. And I find it pretty interesting that in the numerous pages of responses here, I don't seem to have picked up any discussion of what any of this means for the end user.

For what it is worth, I do genuinely feel that the App Store does offer consumers legitimate benefits in the form of better privacy, security and ease of use, flawed as it may be. However, the problem then comes when these benefits, while good for us, may not be so great for developers. For example, the ability to track my subscriptions within the App Store means that it is actually easier for consumers to terminate subscriptions, just as iTunes means that developers never actually get our payment information.

While there may be some genuine reasons for wanting to move away from the App Store or at least be able to use alternative payments, I find that more often than not, what's good for developers may not necessarily be good for consumers. That's why larger companies like Epic, Spotify and Facebook are beating the drum so hard about wanting alternative app stores and third party payment options. It's less about benefiting the consumer, and more about wresting more control for themselves, and being able to steer users to their own app stores.

I am pretty sure any potential future Facebook App Store will not incorporate ATT, for one. Will it even support Apple Pay?

And maybe as a consumer, I don't want any of this. Maybe I bought an iPhone knowing very well that it's locked down with just one App Store and maybe to me, that's a feature, not a bug.

Maybe the App Store doesn't exist for developers. It exists for us.
I sort of agree with a lot of what you say, but I'm sticking to my guns in saying that the App Store shouldn't be the only place to get apps. And, yes, consumers are hurt by higher prices because Apple charges a 30% payment tax. You think developers just take a 30% loss or do you think those gems and super-powers consumers buy in games wouldn't be cheaper if the app could process their own payment at 3% like every other store?

You want a safe harbor like the App Store? Great. It should exist. Me? I'm happy to download the Spotify app from Spotify's site directly, and make purchases through their payment system for less than the App Store using a CC I might have on file with them or even Apple Pay (which I'm sure Apple doesn't charge businesses 30% who take Apple Pay).
 
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How about we ignore Apple and go back to flip phones without a store. Then you have nothing to complain about as Telegram wouldn’t have existed and we’d still be chatting over ICQ and Windows Messenger on a PC.
 
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This is not an Apple platform. This is a Telegram platform. Telegram works across the Apple and Android mobile platforms. Apple gets paid by those Telegram users who buy Apple phones in order to use Telegram; not the other way around. These same users can buy Android phones instead to use Telegram.
Telegram isn't a platform. It's an app. That exists because Apple says so.
 
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I sort of agree with a lot of what you say, but I'm sticking to my guns in saying that the App Store shouldn't be the only place to get apps. And, yes, consumers are hurt by higher prices because Apple charges a 30% payment tax. You think developers just take a 30% loss or do you think those gems and super-powers consumers buy in games wouldn't be cheaper if the app could process their own payment at 3% like every other store?

How many developers charge 30% less for apps on MacOsS d/l from their website vs the same program on the app store?
 
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You are obviously basing that profit 78% margin purely on device cost vs sales and not taking into considerations store, distribution, marketing, shipping, r&d, staffing, taxes, electricity, licensing etc.

I’m basing it on the court testimony from the Apple V Epic trial
 
How many developers charge 30% less for apps on MacOsS d/l from their website vs the same program on the app store?
I have no idea. I didn't say apps. I said in-app purchases (and used game gems and powers as an example of non-material things people buy in apps that have no cost to make).
 
No one is forcing developers to develop for iOS. Apple has created a lucrative market that is attrcative to developers; some of whom now want all of the pie for free.
Actually the economics are forcing developers to develop for iOS - it has 55% of the USA smartphone market and approximately 75% of app revenue. This is why the Congressional study found that Apple has monopoly power of the app market.
 
The data does not support your claim, in fact it shows the exact opposite. What percentage of Android users install apps from alternate stores ? With Android having 85% worldwide market share, only a tiny percentage of users still only download apps from the Google Play Store.

According to Business of Apps "Outside of China, Apple and Google control more than 95 percent of the app store market share through iOS and Android, respectively."

I don't think you understood the post you replied to
 
K, you build your own smartphone platform, hardware, infrastructure, and accessories. THEN tell us HOW 30% is unfair.
Apple makes significant profits off hardware sales. If they were selling their hardware at cost or as a loss leader like game consoles, perhaps there would be an argument. The 30% tax is blatant rent seeking. It is crushing small businesses and content creators.
 
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