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TenFourFox, source parity - we're done folks!

eyoungren

eyoungren

macrumors Penryn
Original poster
Aug 31, 2011
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June 13, 2017 is the last release that is source parity with Firefox.

After that, T4Fx will only be matching feature parity.

It's been a long while coming, but it's here now.

Note that this does not mean T4Fx is being abandoned, just that Cameron Kaiser will no longer be matching Firefox's source code. But it is a first step to our final PowerPC obsolesence.

http://tenfourfox.blogspot.com/2017/02/farewell-to-sha-1-and-hello-to.html
 
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eyoungren said:
June 13, 2017 is the last release that is source parity with Firefox.

After that, T4Fx will only be matching feature parity.

It's been a long while coming, but it's here now.

Note that this does not mean T4Fx is being abandoned, just that Cameron Kaiser will no longer be matching Firefox's source code. But it is a first step to our final PowerPC obsolesence.

http://tenfourfox.blogspot.com/2017/02/farewell-to-sha-1-and-hello-to.html
Click to expand...

Heh. T4Fx is quite a miracle in itself. Mr.Kaiser has really worked hard for all of us.. T4Fx is the only browser that allows me to access certain websites as some throw a "Secure connection issue" error on OmniWeb.

Thanks Mr. Kaiser for the endless hours you spent and will continue to spend on maintaining the most modern PPC app to date!
 
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Indeed. Hat's off to you Mr.Kaiser :)

Out of curiosity, what about browsers like webkit and roccat? aren't they still being developed?
 
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RhianB said:
Indeed. Hat's off to you Mr.Kaiser :)

Out of curiosity, what about browsers like webkit and roccat? aren't they still being developed?
Click to expand...

Yeah, I think so. Let me rephrase it: The most modern 10.4 PPC app to date. T4Fx followed by OmniWeb are the most modern browsers for 10.4 AFAIK
 
I see. Roccat and webkit only run on leopard. As stated in the article, KK still feels that there are a number of years left for usable ppc life. We'll see how it goes.
 
Roccat I downloaded yesterday - very fast on the 1ghz iBook but automatic ad blocking means some funny page rendering. I think it's based on Webkit. Leopard Webkit is still being updated.
So long as Cameron Kaiser keeps updating TenFourFox I'll keep using it :) The day he says he's done is the day I... Well, I probably won't access my bank account on a PPC. Maybe.
Don't we also have an advantage of security by obsolescent obscurity, though? There was a blog post Mr Kaiser wrote when they discontinued support for PPC Macs; I'm trying to find it. From memory, it mentioned that by dropping the ability to compile PPC code in later versions of Xcode, Tim Cook had done us a solid. (Can't find the blog post, my google-fu is not kicking in.)
Honestly, unless there's a real computing game changer in the works (and the only thing I can really think of is holographic computing) I can't see that I get any value out of changing computers?
 
I think in two years time, the sheer hardware requirements for rendering web pages will have left PPC behind - even if there still was a maintained browser available. The last resort of using mobile versions of websites will have dried up too as mobile devices will be so universally powerful, the downscaled sites they use will also be equally demanding.
Personally, my PPC Macs will never be obsolete as my primary requirement of them never was the web plus I'm sure the fun will be getting them online when the odds are even greater......
Just like my Psion 5 from 1997 here, online, logging into a BBS via infrared connection to a Nokia 6310i...

P2.jpg
 
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Dicere said:
Roccat I downloaded yesterday - very fast on the 1ghz iBook but automatic ad blocking means some funny page rendering. I think it's based on Webkit. Leopard Webkit is still being updated.
So long as Cameron Kaiser keeps updating TenFourFox I'll keep using it :) The day he says he's done is the day I... Well, I probably won't access my bank account on a PPC. Maybe.
Don't we also have an advantage of security by obsolescent obscurity, though? There was a blog post Mr Kaiser wrote when they discontinued support for PPC Macs; I'm trying to find it. From memory, it mentioned that by dropping the ability to compile PPC code in later versions of Xcode, Tim Cook had done us a solid. (Can't find the blog post, my google-fu is not kicking in.)
Honestly, unless there's a real computing game changer in the works (and the only thing I can really think of is holographic computing) I can't see that I get any value out of changing computers?
Click to expand...
I think the post you are referring to is the one concerning Java. Or at least that is the one I recall anyway.

His post on Java was prompted by a virus/trojan that had been going around causing issues through modern browsers. Kaiser showed that it was still possible to attack PowerPC Macs through the browser (even T4Fx) because the attack worked. Where we were protected (sort of ) was that the designer of the attack did not program the payload in code understandable by PowerPC. So, while the attack worked by gaining access it failed in executing the damage.

That is when Kaiser suggested turning off Java on our systems.

As to Webkit, yes it is updated, and browsers such as Roccat continue to be updated. My issues with this continue to be the same, limited customization.

Roccat is a great browser, I just cannot leverage it like I can T4Fx.
 
I do like the flexibility of TFF and the add ons etc. Once I have it open, I've just gotten in the habit of leaving an instance running all of the time. I've used roccat and it's fine - certainly zippy on start up but have gotten some weird site rendering for whatever reason - CL comes to mind. Webkit is very unstable on both my QS and G5 for some reason which I haven't explored. Anyhow, I'll continue to use TFF until KK decides to stop, then I'll switch.
 
RhianB said:
I've used roccat and it's fine - certainly zippy on start up but have gotten some weird site rendering for whatever reason - CL comes to mind. Webkit is very unstable on both my QS and G5 for some reason which I haven't explored. Anyhow, I'll continue to use TFF until KK decides to stop, then I'll switch.
Click to expand...
Roccat has weird site rendering because it's based on old WebKit builds. But you can "update" it by using a tool named "Relink against Leopard WebKit", which you can find in the LWK dmg. WebKit is fast and stable on my MDD, it's very rare that I get a crash, are you sure you use the latest build?
 
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pochopsp said:
Roccat has weird site rendering because it's based on old WebKit builds. But you can "update" it by using a tool named "Relink against Leopard WebKit", which you can find in the LWK dmg. WebKit is fast and stable on my MDD, it's very rare that I get a crash, are you sure you use the latest build?
Click to expand...
I did not know they were using outdated builds. Relinking now, thank you for the tip!
 
Dicere said:
I did not know they were using outdated builds. Relinking now, thank you for the tip!
Click to expand...

As far as I know, it's not so much they use outdated builds, more it uses whatever version you have installed system wide - which is generally the older out of date version.
LWK allows you to relink apps with it's newer version and install it system wide - tread carefully if you do that, it can potentially make other apps unstable - I once broke Garageband doing that.

Generally I've found LWK to be very stable and the fastest browser option available, for me Roccat was always crashy.
 
I wanted to do something in Roccat once, which required a login to their website. Trying to register credentials ended up in nothing but a circle as it kept kicking me back to the login screen. I think that might have been with the iOS version of the browser as I couldn't actually get in with the desktop version.

Whatever it was I wanted was not so important that I stuck with the browser I guess. I check it out every once in a while though.

There was a point after Firefox and Flock died for PowerPC and Opera had it's user agent issues that I was trying every browser out there.
 
eyoungren said:
I wanted to do something in Roccat once, which required a login to their website. Trying to register credentials ended up in nothing but a circle as it kept kicking me back to the login screen. I think that might have been with the iOS version of the browser as I couldn't actually get in with the desktop version.

Whatever it was I wanted was not so important that I stuck with the browser I guess. I check it out every once in a while though.

There was a point after Firefox and Flock died for PowerPC and Opera had it's user agent issues that I was trying every browser out there.
Click to expand...

Yanno, now that you say that, IIRC I had the same issue trying to log into an old photobucket account to retrieve some old photos using roccat. Credentials didn't work ultimately cycling me back to a login page.

Pochopsp, I certainly could've been using an old build of LWK. I uninstalled it after having issues. I would give LWK a try again but I sure dont want to break garageband as I use it quite a bit so I certainly need to research how to "relink" stuff, what that process looks like etc. in preparation for when TFF goes away. Until then however, I thank CK each time I use it :D
 
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RhianB said:
Yanno, now that you say that, IIRC I had the same issue trying to log into an old photobucket account to retrieve some old photos using roccat. Credentials didn't work ultimately cycling me back to a login page.

Pochopsp, I certainly could've been using an old build of LWK. I uninstalled it after having issues. I would give LWK a try again but I sure dont want to break garageband as I use it quite a bit so I certainly need to research how to "relink" stuff, what that process looks like etc. in preparation for when TFF goes away. Until then however, I thank KK each time I use it :D
Click to expand...
T4Fx is not going away any time soon. Kaiser is going to be maintaining it at source parity for quite some time. If anyone has followed him for awhile you know he's one of the types that does not like to be beaten by the computers that he owns or the code that limits him. So, we have a long time yet.

PS, it would be CK. He spells his first name with a "C". :)

http://www.llu.edu/pages/faculty/directory/faculty.html?uid=&eid=1a19938
 
Dronecatcher said:
I think in two years time, the sheer hardware requirements for rendering web pages will have left PPC behind - even if there still was a maintained browser available. The last resort of using mobile versions of websites will have dried up too as mobile devices will be so universally powerful, the downscaled sites they use will also be equally demanding.
Personally, my PPC Macs will never be obsolete as my primary requirement of them never was the web plus I'm sure the fun will be getting them online when the odds are even greater......
Just like my Psion 5 from 1997 here, online, logging into a BBS via infrared connection to a Nokia 6310i...
View attachment 690416
Click to expand...
Aah, I also owned the same type of Nokia-Phone with IrDA-Connection together with my TRGpro.
And I had been keen to get a Psion at that time which never happend.
Beyond the shiny bubble of current web-sites bloated with ads it's pure text which in moste cases matters for personal archiving.
 
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RhianB said:
I see. Roccat and webkit only run on leopard. As stated in the article, KK still feels that there are a number of years left for usable ppc life. We'll see how it goes.
Click to expand...

Well, we're in Parity 2 (where we only get features and usability) and opposed to Parity 1 (where we get Firefox ported directly) right now. That isn't terrible.

Next step will be Security Updates Only, which is the end.

So right now, we're in the middle of our long trip with TFF.
 
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