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SAdProZ

macrumors 6502a
Mar 19, 2005
725
515
The hinge noise isn't actually a defect as it does not impair functionality in any way. It's a minor imperfection and of course you can expect devices of a premium brand to be flawless. But now you're arguing the hinge noise is a "loud noise" as you put it, and that just doesn't help to make this thread more credible.
I think everybody here beside yourself would agree a hinge making a clicking sound is an imperfection (aka defect) and cause for a return. Especially when considering that hinge could get worse in time. No, OP did not lose credibility by sharing video evidence of said hinge noise.
 
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Zanton68

macrumors 6502
Sep 24, 2012
305
191
UK
Based on my experience from the past 4-5 years, I believe this, sadly. I handled 5-6 Macbook Pros, a Studio Display and a Mac Studio and all of them had some sort of defect. Most of them were cosmetic and the M2 Studio had coil whine. As others have mentioned before me, nothing will be perfect and most people simply don't care about minor imperfections, especially not if they need the computer for work.

Also, this is not something Apple specific. I had to send back 3 leather coats from a luxury brand this year because all of them had holes along the seams. Each one costs around $4000. You would expect perfection in this price range, but the brand choose to use a thin and weak material in that season. The stores accepted my returns, put back the coats on sale and sold them in a short time. I assume someone else is happy with the items without looking for any imperfections.
I think it is because of the price and the Pro side of things and the way Apple boast about their machine quality (though less so since Jony Ive left?). Personally, just my opinion, my 2011 MacBook Pro is miles better in terms of build quality, but yes, sadly, to expect to get a perfect item doesn't seem realistic any more. At least with "plain to see" physical defects it's easier to say "I want this swapped" and, generally Apple are good at doing that. I've been in with devices asking "could you have a look at this please?" and wanting a quote for repair cost, and they have just swapped on the spot free of charge.
 
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jha

macrumors 6502
Original poster
May 4, 2021
263
188
If you know what to look for, you can find a minor defect. There's 8,000 things that can go imperfectly during assembly. Look close enough and you'll find a speaker hole that is misaligned or not fully cut out. Run your finger across your trackpad where it meets the chassis and you'll feel a snag because it's not aligned perfectly, somewhere. Look at your display at night and you'll see IPS bleed or uneven backlighting across the grid.

Getting a MacBook that is 100% perfectly assembled is not very probable.

Most people just have poor attention to detail. I just got done showing people their displays have blooming inside objects (eg. faces). Most people don't notice these things. The people that do, return them. Sometimes 12 times because they expect a $2,000+ product to be not 99% perfect, not 99.5% perfect, but be 100% perfect. Sometimes it takes that many returns to get one that is perfect. Maybe that makes them OCD or whatever term, thats your judgment, but they're not lying—they're imperfect. Perfection is very ****ing hard. Good luck buying a $70,000 Tesla that doesn't have cosmetic/panel/electronic/material issues if you look close enough. That annoys some people, most don't care.
Actually Tesla intentionally put build quality on the back burner. Mine had severe panel gaps, but it was expected! It didn’t bother me one bit, but I wouldn’t have accepted it on cars I owned that cost multiples more.

When I was selling my Huracan private party the deal got hung up for weeks over one hairline scratch on the front where PPF was temporarily removed. The buyer cared tremendously.

The key point is that how much people care is relative to expectations set - and I’m setting my expectations based on build quality being phenomenal in all my past Apple devices. They are a joy to use.

Great read: https://world.hey.com/dhh/turns-out-nobody-cared-about-panel-gaps-914127d5

This thread has gone way off topic… the main point I was trying to make is that quality swings widely between MacBook Pros right now. Getting one without major defects or scratches is tough. I have firsthand experience. Instead people want to focus on victimizing Apple and the returns themselves.

I just hope QC improves and I simple started this thread to see who else noticed this big variation in quality.
 

okkibs

macrumors 6502a
Sep 17, 2022
884
851
I think everybody here beside yourself would agree a hinge making a clicking sound is an imperfection (aka defect) and cause for a return.
I did actually agree in a previous post that I'd exchange it as well. What I said was is that it's not a defect. The reason I would exchange it is because I have bought Macs since the powerbook days and never experienced that, so naturally I would expect a new Mac not to have it either. What exactly is the defect here though, how does it impede usage?

This reminds me of people exchanging their iPhones because they made a noise when shaking them. Turned out to be the camera module because the lens had stabilization and moved. The solution wasn't to replace iPhone after iPhone until you found one that didn't make that noise, the solution was simply not to shake your iPhone in a quiet room on purpose. Who could have guessed that...

Especially when considering that hinge could get worse in time.
On what do you base this? You are just saying it could get worse. Anything could get worse, sure. I could just as well say, closing and opening the lid on any Macbook will make it worse, because the parts are rated for a finite amount of cycles. But that's just me saying stuff. I don't think there is a problem with hinges giving out on Macbooks or we'd have heard of a hinge gate. In fact the hinges are about the best laptop parts in a Macbook you can find, other laptops often have wobbly screens due to cheap hinges. So I really doubt that this noise will have any effect on usability long-term.

No, OP did not lose credibility by sharing video evidence of said hinge noise.
I never said he did due to the video. I had to turn the speakers up high to even hear the noise in the video in my office with a couple computers humming in the background. OP claims now that it's a loud noise, and that's just not what the video shows at all. I really don't see how it's a problem unless you sit in a quiet library and open and close the lid repeatedly for hours there. Even then, I doubt anyone else a couple feet away would hear it.
 

SAdProZ

macrumors 6502a
Mar 19, 2005
725
515
I did actually agree in a previous post that I'd exchange it as well. What I said was is that it's not a defect. The reason I would exchange it is because I have bought Macs since the powerbook days and never experienced that, so naturally I would expect a new Mac not to have it either. What exactly is the defect here though, how does it impede usage?

This reminds me of people exchanging their iPhones because they made a noise when shaking them. Turned out to be the camera module because the lens had stabilization and moved. The solution wasn't to replace iPhone after iPhone until you found one that didn't make that noise, the solution was simply not to shake your iPhone in a quiet room on purpose. Who could have guessed that...


On what do you base this? You are just saying it could get worse. Anything could get worse, sure. I could just as well say, closing and opening the lid on any Macbook will make it worse, because the parts are rated for a finite amount of cycles. But that's just me saying stuff. I don't think there is a problem with hinges giving out on Macbooks or we'd have heard of a hinge gate. In fact the hinges are about the best laptop parts in a Macbook you can find, other laptops often have wobbly screens due to cheap hinges. So I really doubt that this noise will have any effect on usability long-term.


I never said he did due to the video. I had to turn the speakers up high to even hear the noise in the video in my office with a couple computers humming in the background. OP claims now that it's a loud noise, and that's just not what the video shows at all. I really don't see how it's a problem unless you sit in a quiet library and open and close the lid repeatedly for hours there. Even then, I doubt anyone else a couple feet away would hear it.
Defect means an imperfection or fault. And if the hinge is making a cracking sound then the hinge mechanism was not put together correctly, and/or the materials that put the hinge together are imperfect or faulty.

Because the hinge sound was not intended by Apple designers and manufacturers, it’s a defect.
 

okkibs

macrumors 6502a
Sep 17, 2022
884
851
The definition for defect is that it impairs quality, function, or utility. Don't think I take anyone seriously who watches OP's video and tells me this sound impairs anything whatsoever.
 
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SAdProZ

macrumors 6502a
Mar 19, 2005
725
515
The definition for defect is that it impairs quality, function, or utility. Don't think I take anyone seriously who watches OP's video and tells me this sound impairs anything whatsoever.
Harsh and disturbing sounds impairs the quality of our experience with the product. It also disturbs our trust in the quality of the assembly and its reliability when it’s making sounds not intended by its manufacturer.

Defect = Imperfection. For you to win this argument you would need to prove that the hinge crackling is part of its intended function. It isn’t. Therefore your argument is invalid.
 
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jha

macrumors 6502
Original poster
May 4, 2021
263
188
Update: exchanged 2 more times and got one with a chipped bezel and one with a dead pixel. Guess I will be forced to get another device. Never experienced this with Apple before.
 

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ChedNasad

macrumors regular
Jun 5, 2020
103
262
My 14 inch M1 Pro that I got on launch day is perfect far as I can tell. I have had Apple products have dings and scratches out of the box so I do know it can happen but the number you've gone through is crazy. Makes me think I will hold off on upgrading for a while.
 
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jha

macrumors 6502
Original poster
May 4, 2021
263
188
My 14 inch M1 Pro that I got on launch day is perfect far as I can tell. I have had Apple products have dings and scratches out of the box so I do know it can happen but the number you've gone through is crazy. Makes me think I will hold off on upgrading for a while.
I would recommend holding off - I am going to just have to get a different device at this point even though I want the 14"
 
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DCIFRTHS

macrumors 65816
Jan 25, 2008
1,181
587
Apple quality has been steadily declining over the years. I have been through 3 exchanges for my MacBook Pro and the third one still isn't perfect. The bottom plate is slightly loose on the right side, but I have just given up. I wish they invested more in quality control. They can't be charging premium prices if they can't offer premium quality.

My 14" MacBook Pro came with a small, rough scratch where the removable bottom cover plate meets the upper enclosure. I think it's actually a rough scratch on the inside edge of the upper chassis.

I can feel it slightly if I run my finger over it - as if something rough was taken out of the case during assembly, scratched the edge, and is slightly higher than the removable bottom cover because the edge of the metal is rough.

Think of running a cheese grater over the edge of a piece of metal, but on a much smaller, finer scale. Again, I can feel it slightly if I run my finger over it.

I didn't notice it until after the 14 day return policy. I did inspect the computer before I used it, but I missed the damage. I bought it from a big box retailer - an Apple authorized reseller. I don't want to say which because the machine was factory sealed, and I don't want to disparage them online. I am very picky, and I am convinced this was not a repackaged return - it was new from Apple.

The computer arrived like this - from outside in:
1) Retailer's brown shipping box to me.
2) Apple's brown shipping box with perforated "rip cord" intact.
3) Apple retail packaging factory sealed - rip strips intact.

Since it was past the return period, and the computer was functioning properly, I decided to live with it. I might have been able to convince the retailer to exchange it, but I decided to try and accept it. Am I concerned that components inside the computer may be damaged? Yes. Unfortunately, since I was past my return period, albeit by less than a week, I decided to keep it.

Is this damage acceptable? No. Do I regret missing it on initial inspection? Yes. Should Apple's QA be held to task? Yes.

Unfortunately, in the past, I have received an iPhone 5S with a dead speaker, an iPhone 11 Pro with a scratch on the stainless steel band (Apple gave me a refund, and I bought a new one), and I also purchased TWO iPhone 14 Pros. One of them had a small cosmetic imperfection in the stainless steel (the anodizing process missing a small part of the band?). I exchanged it, and the replacement came with a similar imperfection. It was very small, and I use a case so I decided to live with it instead of the headache involved with exchanging again. Additionally, I had three Apple leather cases where the lightning and speaker cutouts were misaligned - the cable hit against the side of the cutout, and put pressure on the plug.

My 5S and 11 Pro I chalked up to being unlucky. My latest purchases, in a short period of time, I chalk up to dwindling quality control.

Click and zoom on attachments to see the scratch. It was hard to capture on camera, but it gives you an idea of what's going on.
 

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GoofyCyborg

macrumors regular
Sep 23, 2013
241
257
Wales, UK
People who say the buyers are being too OCD, picky, fussy etc need to give their head a wobble! More and more manufacturers are checking devices for scratches, dings, dents etc and are voiding their warranties as a result if found. I don't think Apple does this though, unlike Samsung. YET!!!

My Apple watch ultra's charger was scratched up right out of the box. The watch was fine, so I kept it. My iPhone 14 Pro has a small blemish on the frame and it was there right out of the box (brand new). Again I kept it. Apple's quality control is not what it once was, unfortunately.
 

arcite

macrumors 6502a
yeah the quality control isn’t as good as it used to be.
got my mid-high range spec 14” in dec 2021, it took almost a month to get to me.
there was an imperfection in the edge of the glass i could see under light.
i considered getting it swapped but i knew they were in short spare still at that time (especially my spec) and i’d probably be without one for weeks again.
after that my 13 pro i got in january also had a scuff on the edge of the steel frame, i did get that swapped!
frustrating none the less but this macbook is by far the best computer i’ve owned

That’s barely even a flaw; the screen is working fine. If you bought a hardshell case for the computer, it would probably cover it up.

And people wonder why landfills are filling with e-waste….

Use your laptop for a few years; it will be FULL of scratches and dings from daily use; they are cosmetic; the chassis is solid metal! It’s expected to get scratched and dinged; so long as the guts of the machine are protected and continue working, that’s a success.
 

jezbd1997

macrumors 6502a
Jul 8, 2015
917
1,238
Melbourne - Australia
That’s barely even a flaw; the screen is working fine. If you bought a hardshell case for the computer, it would probably cover it up.

And people wonder why landfills are filling with e-waste….

Use your laptop for a few years; it will be FULL of scratches and dings from daily use; they are cosmetic; the chassis is solid metal! It’s expected to get scratched and dinged; so long as the guts of the machine are protected and continue working, that’s a success.
Yes it's working fine. But you're saying $4500+ of my money and it's totally fine to have this quality control and to have an imperfection in the glass? Absolutely not.
I am a very loyal Apple customer, but I am not the only one who's noticed a downfall in the past 10 years.

Also I do look after my devices superbly.
 

powerslave65

macrumors 6502
Mar 21, 2011
377
169
Sherman Oaks CA
Anyone else notice quality control is horrible for the 14” Pro since M1 days?

I bought and exchanged a few M2 Pros, and I’ve probably been through a dozen so far and never got one without issues.

Some creak loudly when handled, hinge makes loud clicking noises when moved, scratches on the screen fresh out of the box on several. Last one I exchanged what making a loud whirring/whistling noise from the right fan.

Last one I just opened has deep scratches on the screen. No other issues so will likely just live with it. Am I the only one noticing this?
Sorry but you must be the unluckiest person on Earth. Every Apple product I have ever purchased has been great and their QC is legendary. Also one person’s experience of product quality means very little in terms of overall trends in statistical data for millions of products shipped. Better luck to you in the future.
 
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Flash1420

macrumors regular
Sep 17, 2022
180
374
That’s barely even a flaw; the screen is working fine. If you bought a hardshell case for the computer, it would probably cover it up.

And people wonder why landfills are filling with e-waste….

Use your laptop for a few years; it will be FULL of scratches and dings from daily use; they are cosmetic; the chassis is solid metal! It’s expected to get scratched and dinged; so long as the guts of the machine are protected and continue working, that’s a success.
It will only get scratched and dinged if you damage it on purpose. I have a 2012 MacBook Air that still looks new. It looks like you don't know how to take care of your devices. Also when a person returns it, Apple usually sells it as refurbished, it doesn't go straight to landfills. Do some research before posting next time.
 

prospervic

macrumors 6502a
Aug 2, 2007
959
1,095
NYC
Realistically time spent doing that far outweighs the cost of the device for me. Already went through a dozen and none were perfect. I can live with it but hope these issues get resolved so if I ever break/damage mine, I can walk in the store and get a replacement without having to play the lottery to get a defect-free one.

The only issue with the latest one is a few hairline scratches on the screen right out of the box, with the deepest being on the bezel above the notch. By far the best I’ve gotten.
You need to return it right away, regardless of the inconvenience. Reason? Down the road when you need warranty work those scratches are going to deemed by Apple as user-caused damage.

I would also suggest opening the box of your next one right there in the Apple store (or whatever retail you’re purchasing from).
 

Acronyc

macrumors 6502a
Jan 24, 2011
901
385
I have a 14-inch M1 Max that I bought when it came out in November 2021. I waited almost a month for it to arrive. When it did, everything was perfect except there was a minor discoloration on the left side of the computer. A very small dot that was really only visible if you were looking right at it in a very bright room or direct light.

It was annoying because I paid $3,100 for it. But, it didn't affect the usability at all and wasn't that noticeable. I checked the rest of the machine and didn't see any other flaws. I rang up Apple about it and they said they could do an exchange, but the new Mac would take 3 to 4 weeks to arrive and I'd have to send the one I had back before they start the exchange/replacement process.

I needed a computer so decided to live with it, but asked Apple if they could do anything else. They gave me a $200 refund to my card, which I've never experienced before with Apple. This was more than acceptable for me, and the computer still is working perfectly fine almost two years later.

Since then, I've purchased two M1 Airs - one new and one refurbished. They were both flawless out of the box.

My worst experience with an Apple product was actually my 2012 retina 15-inch MacBook Pro. I had image retention, a dead battery, and scratches and went through three replacements.

I've had a bad experience with Apple Service, though. The 2016 13-inch MBP I used before my 14-inch also never gave me any problems until it was sent to the Apple service center to replace the keyboard/top case. I did this because my AppleCare+ was expiring and I asked if I could get the keyboard replaced just so it might last longer - even though I didn't have any problems with it.

They replaced it, but I got it back and the top lid was completely scratched. I complained (and had photos of it prior to giving it to them) and they replaced the screen. Then that new screen died in less than a year.
 
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Kung

macrumors 6502
Feb 3, 2006
447
451
I also concur w/the unluckiest person in history conclusion. Just took delivery of a MBP M2 Pro 14" last Friday...and specifically because of this post, I literally utilized a magnifying glass and took my sweet ass time looking it over. Was in perfect condition. :)
 

Semio

macrumors newbie
Mar 30, 2023
15
13
Anyone else notice quality control is horrible for the 14” Pro since M1 days?

I bought and exchanged a few M2 Pros, and I’ve probably been through a dozen so far and never got one without issues.

Some creak loudly when handled, hinge makes loud clicking noises when moved, scratches on the screen fresh out of the box on several. Last one I exchanged what making a loud whirring/whistling noise from the right fan.

Last one I just opened has deep scratches on the screen. No other issues so will likely just live with it. Am I the only one noticing this?
100% there is something going on with the quality control on these machines. I'm on my third 14 inch Pro, and returns were painful since I bought through a retail (non Apple) store. The first one I opened literally had a dent on the bottom case straight out of the box, a pretty decent dent too, I kid you not. I went straight back the store within the hour, and thankfully they replaced it. I feel bad for them, because they just have to take my word since it was a ding, but there is was, straight out of the box, didn't even turn it on, just straight back to the store. The replacement had a terrible screen, I took this to Apple, they wrote a note confirming this so I could take it back to the store. The 3rd one came out of the box with black marks on the back corner and hinge area. This did eventually come off, not sure what it was. This machine is pretty decent although the Space Grey finish is a different shade on the top case vs the bottom case. All in all, insanity that this is going on with products of this price. It's sketchy and not a good feeling playing the MBP lottery with 3-5k machines. How they are getting through QA is a mystery to me, and Apple they must be taking a lot of returns too so I bet it's costing them.
 
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