texas town prosecuting breast-feeding mom under kiddie porn laws

[hacurio1]

Originally posted by MorganX
This is where the assumption comes in. you are assuming that after one look, reasonable people would conclude the pictures were normal family photos.

Until you see the photos you can't assume anything. You guys really have no clue how many children are regularly sexually abused and never rescued.

Better to err on the side of caution. There's a simple solution, if you must take questionable nude photos of your kids playing with or scratching their nuts, use a digital camera or develop them at home. Of course, for the kids that are being abused, we can only hope their abuser is dumb enough to take photos to the photomat.

NO!!! You have no idea how many children are abused and never Rescued!!!!
If you are going to give me numbers from the U.S. you have no idea!! The U.S. has the strictest rules for that matter, and what happens here is NOTHING!!!! Compared to other places of earth. Have you read about what happens in Brazil, where little 10 y old girls are sell them self for money! Just so they can eat. Children in Ecuador have to work until 2:00-3:00 AM just to be able to eat something the next day. The real problem isn’t what happens here, but on other places on earth were laws that protect children are not enforced. Have you ever worked 16 hours a day? Have you ever had to get your self drunk so that you wont feel the cold while you sleep in the street? I did a lot of work helping kids in countries like Ecuador, were you see 5-14 year old kids doing this as their way of surviving because there aren’t government agencies to protect tehm, and if they exist, they do a poor job enforcing laws to protect them. Also….in case you are not aware…most, if not all of child pornography, comes form countries like Ecuador, Brazil, and NOT!!! Form the U.S. People here make a big deal out of some pictures, while in some other country on earth a kid is dying because he hasn’t eaten anything. While on some other country on earth, child porn pictures are uploaded to a server. While on some other country on earth 12 year old girls are selling their bodies for food.

 

[Flowbee]

Originally posted by bokdol
there should be a law against photo finishers looking at your private photos.

Photo finishers need to look at the photos to make sure they were developed properly. I realize that the process is pretty much automated now, but still, a good photo lab will always check their work.

If you want your photos to be truly private, a digital camera and a photo printer will do the trick.

 

[macfan]

hacruio1,
When you read the article, you will see that the pictures also had (tasteful, apparently) nude shots of adults, not just of breast feeding a baby, which, taken as a group, might have made a reasonable person suspicious.

Why don't we ask a poll question just to get a feel for how normal it is to take photos of this kind to the local film processor? To those men who are married with kids, how many of you took pictures of your wife breast feeding your child down to the local photo processor? To those who do not have kids, did your own parents take pictures of you breast feeding down to the local photo processor? Most women in the United States tend use a covering when breast feeding in public, and it's not likely that taking in film with these shots is very common.

Originally posted by pseudobrit
I've always wondered why the hell it's okay for a photofinisher to look at the photos anyway.

I mean, if I have a digicam and snap a few pics with it and upload them into iPhoto, is Apple allowed to peruse what I've snapped? Is there any real difference?

pseudobrit and bokdol,
I want the photo processor to look carefully at every picture I take in. Not only does this (usually) keep them from printing my pictures in mirror image, but a good shop will do some minor color correction and exposure control thus giving me better pictures. The idea that your film should be private when you take it to a photo processor is not a reasonable one IMO.

 

[hacurio1]

Originally posted by macfan
hacruio1,
When you read the article, you will see that the pictures also had (tasteful, apparently) nude shots of adults, not just of breast feeding a baby, which, taken as a group, might have made a reasonable person suspicious.

Why don't we ask a poll question just to get a feel for how normal it is to take photos of this kind to the local film processor? To those men who are married with kids, how many of you took pictures of your wife breast feeding your child down to the local photo processor? To those who do not have kids, did your own parents take pictures of you breast feeding down to the local photo processor? Most women in the United States tend use a covering when breast feeding in public, and it's not likely that taking in film with these shots is very common.



pseudobrit and bokdol,
I want the photo processor to look carefully at every picture I take in. Not only does this (usually) keep them from printing my pictures in mirror image, but a good shop will do some minor color correction and exposure control thus giving me better pictures. The idea that your film should be private when you take it to a photo processor is not a reasonable one IMO.

You see your argument has flaw. Perhaps it is not so common in the States pictures of woman breast feeding their own children, but in Peru where the girl is form, this is normal. Those pictures had no sexual meaning, intention, nor is there any reason to believe they had! I don't care how conservative or not people are; breast-feeding is normal and natural, period! Why should she cover her self if she was at her home doing something, which is normal? If she was doing the same thing publicly, I would agree with you, but she was in her home doing something normal, Why should she cover her self? Where is her privacy?

 

[macfan]

Originally posted by hacurio1
You see your argument has flaw. Perhaps it is not so common in the States pictures of woman breast feeding their own children, but in Peru where the girl is form, this is normal. Those pictures had no sexual meaning, intention, nor is there any reason to believe they had! I don't care how conservative or not people are; breast-feeding is normal and natural, period! Why should she cover her self if she was at her home doing something, which is normal? If she was doing the same thing publicly, I would agree with you, but she was in her home doing something normal, Why should she cover her self? Where is her privacy?

The woman was not in Peru. The photo processor was not in Peru. That is kind of the point. How can you ask about someone's privacy when they have taken a picture down to the local photo processor?

Do you think the pictures of the two adults nude in the bed had any sexual meaning? Do you not suspect that a person might see that picture and then the others in that context and become concerned? The cops seem to have gone overboard in their investigation, but the actions of the photo processor seem to be quite appropriate.

breast-feeding is normal and natural, period!

Urination is normal and natural as well, but it's generally not something that is done in public in the US, or even photographed in private. It isn't a question of natural or normal, it is a question of cultural meaning.

 

[MorganX]

Originally posted by hacurio1
Have you ever worked 16 hours a day? Have you ever had to get your self drunk so that you wont feel the cold while you sleep in the street? I did a lot of work helping kids in countries like Ecuador, were you see 5-14 year old kids doing this as their way of surviving because there aren’t government agencies to protect tehm, and if they exist, they do a poor job enforcing laws to protect them. Also….in case you are not aware…most, if not all of child pornography, comes form countries like Ecuador, Brazil, and NOT!!! Form the U.S. People here make a big deal out of some pictures, while in some other country on earth a kid is dying because he hasn’t eaten anything. While on some other country on earth, child porn pictures are uploaded to a server. While on some other country on earth 12 year old girls are selling their bodies for food.

I've worked 12. We have no argument here, people and children suffer all over. But because you can't save them all, you don't turn your back on the ones you can save.

As for other countries, they have to take responsibility for what they allow to happen also, and they crimes their countrymen commit against their children. If there are no laws being enforced in these third-world countries that openly abuse children, then maybe the adults should revolt.

 

[applemacdude]

damn texans

 

[macfan]

Originally posted by applemacdude
damn texans

Get a grip, applemacdude. Incidents where people are incorrectly charged abound in every state, not just in Texas. The charges were dropped. Maybe zimv20 should have mentioned that the charges were dropped in his headline to make it more clear and more complete.

 

[zimv20]

Originally posted by macfan
Maybe zimv20 should have mentioned that the charges were dropped in his headline to make it more clear and more complete.

oops! you're right. i missed it in the article. grrrr. i should have said "persecuting," 'cuz at the time of the articles they still didn't have their kids back.

my bad.

 

[hacurio1]

Originally posted by macfan
The woman was not in Peru. The photo processor was not in Peru. That is kind of the point. How can you ask about someone's privacy when they have taken a picture down to the local photo processor?

Do you think the pictures of the two adults nude in the bed had any sexual meaning? Do you not suspect that a person might see that picture and then the others in that context and become concerned? The cops seem to have gone overboard in their investigation, but the actions of the photo processor seem to be quite appropriate.



Urination is normal and natural as well, but it's generally not something that is done in public in the US, or even photographed in private. It isn't a question of natural or normal, it is a question of cultural meaning.

Ok, I could agree with you here somehow. Those pictures could surprise someone who has never seen this sort of thing before. But seriously, how much damage has been done on the base of prejudgment. Was it worth it?
There is a broken family, kids without their parents, and a traumatic experience to forget.
As far as the "urination" example goes, it does not apply, nor does it come close to. So I’m not going to lose my time on it.

 

[hacurio1]

Originally posted by MorganX
I've worked 12. We have no argument here, people and children suffer all over. But because you can't save them all, you don't turn your back on the ones you can save.

As for other countries, they have to take responsibility for what they allow to happen also, and they crimes their countrymen commit against their children. If there are no laws being enforced in these third-world countries that openly abuse children, then maybe the adults should revolt.

I completely understand your point and agree with you to some extent, but I'm telling you, child pornography does not come form the United States, but form outside the U.S. When you say, "But because you can't save them all, you don't turn your back on the ones you can save." I have to ask? Save them form what? Abuse...yes, Violence...yes, but I insist, Child pornography does not come form the U.S. If this Peruan girl were involved in such activities, she wouldn't have taken the pictures to a local photo processor, she would've uploaded them to the server right away. Child abuse is something horrible, and it should be punished all over the world, but when these type of things happen, I question the legal system, not for their objective of bringing justice, but on how they do it. This girl had to spend a lot of time, money, not to mention the traumatic experience she might have experienced, just because she was misjudged. What happened to the? "You are innocent until proven guilty."

 

[dxp4acu]

No one has brought up that this woman was not breast-feeding. They said in the article that the kid somehow went along with it. This kid was past breast-feeding age. Now, I take a TON of pictures, and love having different shots/perspectives, but if anything, this guy should get charged with bad judgment.

This question is where does this stop? What is the age that a woman can stop taking pictures with her son that makes it illegal? If they had taken it a year or two ago, when he was breastfeeding, would it be okay? How about 5 years from now? Wouldn't that be awkward?!?!? But he said he hadn't seen her like that, so what if a man hadn't seen his wife breastfeed, and her son is now 8? Now, I know this didn't happen, but what's to stop them a year from now, or more?

There has to be a line set up, as it doesn't seem this has been talked about before. Maybe it is just good to set a precedent.
As they have not been convicted, they will be more cautious in the future. I feel bad about the cost they paid, however.

It also said they had a quite a few pictures of their kids playing nude with each other. Did it mention how old they were?

Some of these pictures sound innocent enough. I know we took some when I was a kid. But some of them don't sound as pure and innocent.

At the very least, give the guy some lessons in photo ettiquette here in America!!!!

 

[MorganX]

Originally posted by hacurio1
I completely understand your point and agree with you to some extent, but I'm telling you, child pornography does not come form the United States, but form outside the U.S. When you say, "But because you can't save them all, you don't turn your back on the ones you can save." I have to ask? Save them form what? Abuse...yes, Violence...yes, but I insist, Child pornography does not come form the U.S. If this Peruan girl were involved in such activities, she wouldn't have taken the pictures to a local photo processor, she would've uploaded them to the server right away. Child abuse is something horrible, and it should be punished all over the world, but when these type of things happen, I question the legal system, not for their objective of bringing justice, but on how they do it. This girl had to spend a lot of time, money, not to mention the traumatic experience she might have experienced, just because she was misjudged. What happened to the? "You are innocent until proven guilty."

I'm not sure what you mean when you say Child Pornography does not come from America. We've have many recent high profile cases with chief culprits coming from the heartland, Kansas. Child Porn is everywhere. The further from law enforcement you get, the more danger kids are in. From Texas to rural Kansas. I will agree that in Europre and elsewhere it is more prevalent due to lax enforcement.

 

[mymemory]

Well, just imagine the picture

The problem with the breast feeding stuff is that Texas is the ****t* Bible Belt crap area where most of the ignorant and inexperience people in the US are.

I can talk about it because, just imagine the pictures! I was an exchange student (Latin) in Arkansas back in 1992 when there was not even internet.

I remember very well my host mother saying:

Does every body kiss on the chick in Venezuela?

I said: Yes

She said: I would never let my daughter go to that place!!!

Breast feeding is nothing compared with the level of ignorance that I had to face there.

Just imagine that in Venezuela we do not have racism and they do in the Bible Belt area!

That behavior of the guy at the photoshop is very comprehensible and even expected.

Remember most religious Bautist groups does not have pictures of naked angels or things like that, but for sure I had 3 pregnant junior class mates in my class room.

 

[bokdol]

Originally posted by macfan

I want the photo processor to look carefully at every picture I take in. Not only does this (usually) keep them from printing my pictures in mirror image, but a good shop will do some minor color correction and exposure control thus giving me better pictures. The idea that your film should be private when you take it to a photo processor is not a reasonable one IMO.

it's funny because everytime i send my picture to a finisher none of the finishers actually looked at my prints. thats why they give the prints to me and tell me to check them. but then these are mostly onehour places. not a good shop. from what it seems like in the article, it was an hour photo place. what i am saying is if i send it to a quality place i would expect them to ASK me if they should correct the color. but as far as i am concern what is on my picture is my pictures. i only gave them the right to develop and print not view and judge. and from every onehour photo place i have never seen them go through the pictures.
i know everyone has different feeling about what has to be done but this may have gone over board. there was almost no investigation. only one set of prints then an arrest.
talk about destorying a family oh but there were immigrans. and of course if this was a "red blooded" white american family things would have been handled differently. note many familys have naked children pictures. even to a todler age.

 

[mymemory]

Originally posted by hacurio1
I completely understand your point and agree with you to some extent, but I'm telling you, child pornography does not come form the United States, but form outside the U.S. When you say, "But because you can't save them all, you don't turn your back on the ones you can save." I have to ask? Save them form what? Abuse...yes, Violence...yes, but I insist, Child pornography does not come form the U.S. If this Peruan girl were involved in such activities, she wouldn't have taken the pictures to a local photo processor, she would've uploaded them to the server right away. Child abuse is something horrible, and it should be punished all over the world, but when these type of things happen, I question the legal system, not for their objective of bringing justice, but on how they do it. This girl had to spend a lot of time, money, not to mention the traumatic experience she might have experienced, just because she was misjudged. What happened to the? "You are innocent until proven guilty."

Find me just one, just one child pornography web site made in Peru.

If you ever get a cross with one I may show you 300.000 just from the US.

You are such sad ignorant person, there is not market for such things as you have in the US, go to Las Vegas, go to New York, to Los Angeles, you do not even know how to translate child pornography in to Spanish.

 

[zimv20]

Originally posted by mymemory
Find me just one, just one child pornography web site made in Peru.

just trying can get one in trouble.

you do not even know how to translate child pornography in to Spanish.

that was unnecessary.

 

[zimv20]

a true story

years ago i was traveling out of the country helping shoot a documentary. i had my (still) camera and, for a variety of reasons, ending up taking a disproportionately large number of pictures of this one woman with us (i'll call her Beth).

i took the negatives to a camera place and decided beforehand that, before i showed the pictures to anyone, i'd remove most of the Beth shots so that it wouldn't look suspicious.

when i went to pick up the pictures, the woman working there was asking about the trip and how i knew the people in the pictures. turns out, she's a friend of Beth's. oops.

 

[hacurio1]

Originally posted by mymemory
Find me just one, just one child pornography web site made in Peru.

If you ever get a cross with one I may show you 300.000 just from the US.

You are such sad ignorant person, there is not market for such things as you have in the US, go to Las Vegas, go to New York, to Los Angeles, you do not even know how to translate child pornography in to Spanish.

I can’t show you a website made or hosted in Peru (it will be illegal), and I’m not saying that there is one there. But you will agree with me when I say that in our Latin-American Countries they don’t enforce the laws as well as they do here. Sure, the market is the U.S. and perhaps Europe, but where do you think they get the children form?

10.000.000 children are trafficked and prostituted in the world according
to UNICEF.

* 1,000,000 new children are pushed into this market every year. (UNICEF)

And BTW
Spanish is my first lenguage

:Trafficked: being the keyword here.

 

[pseudobrit]

The only reason there was suspicion was because there were erotic photos not including the baby in the same roll of film.

Which is bulls***.

If I have 5 negatives of hardcore sex with my wife on a roll and the rest are pictures of my (imaginary) kids and I playing in the swimming pool, I've done nothing wrong or illegal but now I'm suspicious.

Child porn is not the epidemic you might think it is. I'm not being insensitive, but I'm sure more children are killed by over-the counter medicine in a year than affected by kiddie porn, and we're not freaking out about them because it's not as sensational.

As a matter of fact, the US Postal Service is the largest publisher of child pornography (video and print) in the USA. Think about that.

 

[pseudobrit]

Originally posted by dxp4acu
If they had taken it a year or two ago, when he was breastfeeding, would it be okay? How about 5 years from now? Wouldn't that be awkward?!?!?

That would be awkward. Sorry, that just sounded funny the way I read it...