Thanksgiving, the forgotten holiday

[eyoungren]

Instead of complaining which seems to be a lot of negativity, why not be thankful that we have the freedom and ability to celebrate the way we want too. No one is preventing you celebrating Thanksgiving and Christmas the way you want too, why are you complaining the way others are celebrating those holidays?

I'm not complaining, I'm just wondering. And I wonder, because I don't celebrate Christmas until after Thanksgiving.

When would you prefer the Christmas season to begin? It gets earlier every year. This year, it started on November 1st, right after Halloween.

You are okay with Thanksgiving occurring during the Christmas season. What about Halloween then? What if Christmas started after Labor Day in September?

When is it too early for Christmas to start?

I don't hate Christmas and I don't hate people who celebrate multiple holidays at once. It's just not my thing, so I'm asking questions to understand your viewpoint.

PS. As to Christmas stations, it's hard to switch channels when two of the three major radio stations in the area are both playing Christmas music. There are other stations of course, but they don't play the same format.

 

[Tomorrow]

When would you prefer the Christmas season to begin? It gets earlier every year. This year, it started on November 1st, right after Halloween.

You are okay with Thanksgiving occurring during the Christmas season. What about Halloween then? What if Christmas started after Labor Day in September?

When is it too early for Christmas to start?

I hesitate to speak for @maflynn, but you seem to be hung up on the notion that Christmas (or the Christmas season; you've used both terminologies) begins when others say it begins. It doesn't; each person or family begins decorating when THEY choose to decorate, and they celebrate when THEY choose to celebrate. I've never felt pressured to have my decorations up at a certain time, or to take them down at a certain time; I decorate when I want to.

The people who complain (and yes, you are most certainly complaining) about Christmas starting too early, or earlier each year, say it like there's some sort of collective agreement among all those who celebrate to determine the official Start Date for the festivities, when that's far from the case.

 

[eyoungren]

I hesitate to speak for @maflynn, but you seem to be hung up on the notion that Christmas (or the Christmas season; you've used both terminologies) begins when others say it begins. It doesn't; each person or family begins decorating when THEY choose to decorate, and they celebrate when THEY choose to celebrate. I've never felt pressured to have my decorations up at a certain time, or to take them down at a certain time; I decorate when I want to.

The people who complain (and yes, you are most certainly complaining) about Christmas starting too early, or earlier each year, say it like there's some sort of collective agreement among all those who celebrate to determine the official Start Date for the festivities, when that's far from the case.

Well okay. I will admit that I have a timeframe in my head as to when the Christmas season is and it begins after Thanksgiving.

And because of that I see others celebrating it earlier as ignoring Thanksgiving. I have since been corrected on that.

I admit that.

But again, I don't begrudge those who do so. I AM complaining when retail starts the Christmas season before Thanksgiving. It gets earlier every year. If Halloween wasn't in the way, retailers would start in October - or earlier if they could get away with it.

But since I don't begrudge people that, they can start whenever they want. That's their own business.

But my question still stands. When is too early?

 

[maflynn]

Well okay. I will admit that I have a timeframe in my head as to when the Christmas season is and it begins after Thanksgiving.

Many people do, and I don't begrudge them. Many people choose not even celebrate Christmas, and that's fine as well. I will also say that there is a segment of Americans that choose not to celebrate Thanksgiving. Its their right and freedom. I think overall I'm content and enjoying the holiday seasons of Thanksgiving and Christmas. As I state, why complain, life is too short to get worked up about what others, are doing for holidays.

When is too early?

There is no too early. As @Tomorrow stated, its up to the person (or family).

I AM complaining when retail starts the Christmas season before Thanksgiving.

That's a fact of life since retailers generate 2/3's of their annual sales from the christmas season. From a business perspective, it behooves them to push the envelope as far as they can. I'm not justifying their actions, just pointing out the motivation. Especially since retailer are hurting, Sears, Kmart, JC Penny, etc. They're all hurting or circling the drain (at least Sears is).

 

[eyoungren]

That's a fact of life since retailers generate 2/3's of their annual sales from the christmas season. From a business perspective, it behooves them to push the envelope as far as they can. I'm not justifying their actions, just pointing out the motivation. Especially since retailer are hurting, Sears, Kmart, JC Penny, etc. They're all hurting or circling the drain (at least Sears is).

The danger when they do that is that it becomes acceptable. I'm sure if they could get away with it, Christmas would be year round to them.

And that is what I am really complaining about. If people want to celebrate Christmas in July, that's their business and good for them. Who am I to tell them what they can or cannot do? But I do whine when retailers push it. I know why they do. Both because of your statements and my own knowledge. It's the time of year where many retailers make it into the black.

But I don't believe the retailers should control or dictate to the people when the Christmas season begins. That's a decision that should be left to us personally and not influenced or dictated by the retailers.

 

[mollyc]

I also love Thanksgiving way more than Christmas. I love fall; I hate winter. Thanksgiving is a fall holiday, and I like the warm colors and inviting smells of Thanksgiving. I like decorating with leaves and pumpkins. I like the quietness of Thanksgiving.

I don't like walking into a store on November 1st being bombarded with red and green and snow. If you want to put up your tree and decorate your personal space in July or August or November, I don't care. It's your space. But public spaces shouldn't start until late November, IMO, and let fall be fall. I personally don't like Christmas anything until December 1st but know that the traditional start is the Friday after Thanksgiving. I do personally feel that the more exposure you have to something the less meaningful it becomes. I want to enjoy Christmas, but if it's in my face all the time, it's just more noise, and less special.

 

[Tomorrow]

But my question still stands. When is too early?

When people are no longer interested.

The danger when they do that is that it becomes acceptable. I'm sure if they could get away with it, Christmas would be year round to them.

If buyers were willing to Christmas shop year round, then retailers would serve them year round. If there's a market for something, someone will provide the supply.

...But I do whine when retailers push it. I know why they do. Both because of your statements and my own knowledge. It's the time of year where many retailers make it into the black.

But I don't believe the retailers should control or dictate to the people when the Christmas season begins. That's a decision that should be left to us personally and not influenced or dictated by the retailers.

Again, you're reversing the cause and the effect.

Buyers don't buy because of pressure from retailers. Retailers sell because of demand from buyers.

 

[acorntoy]

Thanksgiving isn’t a forgotten holiday to retailers, it’s Black Friday eve.

In all honesty though it’s HARD to redo entire stores for seasons, and unless your William-Sonoma thanksgiving is a hard one to advertise/ decorate for, push specific items, and with the added pressure of Christmas shopping season beginning quite literally during the same month, and accelerating the day after, it’s no surprise that retailers would focus more on Christmas.

 

[eyoungren]

When people are no longer interested.



If buyers were willing to Christmas shop year round, then retailers would serve them year round. If there's a market for something, someone will provide the supply.



Again, you're reversing the cause and the effect.

Buyers don't buy because of pressure from retailers. Retailers sell because of demand from buyers.

Then you are proving my whole point.

If buyers don't buy because of pressure from retailers and retailers sell because of demand, then who is it that creates the demand for Christmas season? Who is placing Christmas above and before Thanksgiving?

You and me. Or rather those who want Christmas season to start as early as it does. Which goes back to my entire point of Thanksgiving being forgotten. Because if people were demanding Thanksgiving, then the retailers would be advertising Thanksgiving.

So people aren't demanding Thanksgiving then. Which makes Thanksgiving a lesser holiday to them, which goes back to my premise of it being forgotten. Because if people wanted Thanksgiving more than Christmas, then it would be Thanksgiving getting the attention and not Christmas. If it was equal then advertising would reflect that and I probably wouldn't be complaining about Christmas season starting before Thanksgiving. So, people must want Christmas more than Thanksgiving because the advertising retailers are doing reflects that according to your cause and effect.

 

[acorntoy]

Then you are proving my whole point.

If buyers don't buy because of pressure from retailers and retailers sell because of demand, then who is it that creates the demand for Christmas season? Who is placing Christmas above and before Thanksgiving?

You and me. Or rather those who want Christmas season to start as early as it does. Which goes back to my entire point of Thanksgiving being forgotten. Because if people were demanding Thanksgiving, then the retailers would be advertising Thanksgiving.

So people aren't demanding Thanksgiving then. Which makes Thanksgiving a lesser holiday, which goes back to my premise of it being forgotten.

What the hell are you gonna buy for thanksgiving? A Turkey? Maybe a fancy new tablecloth? A shirt with a turkey on it as a gag? It’s much less of an opportunity for retailers, and with people starting to think about their Christmas shopping and responsibilites nov 1, it makes a lot of sense to go directly to Christmas.

 

[eyoungren]

Thanksgiving isn’t a forgotten holiday to retailers, it’s Black Friday eve.

In all honesty though it’s HARD to redo entire stores for seasons, and unless your William-Sonoma thanksgiving is a hard one to advertise/ decorate for, push specific items, and with the added pressure of Christmas shopping season beginning quite literally during the same month, and accelerating the day after, it’s no surprise that retailers would focus more on Christmas.

What the hell are you gonna buy for thanksgiving? A Turkey? Maybe a fancy new tablecloth? A shirt with a turkey on it as a gag? It’s much less of an opportunity for retailers, and with people starting to think about their Christmas shopping nov 1, it makes a lot of sense to go directly to Christmas.

I agree. Retailers haven't figured out how to monetize this yet.

But @Tomorrow is arguing that the commercialization of the Christmas season is based on what people want. So, people must want Christmas more than they want Thanksgiving. Which means a holiday that occurs about a month after another is being celebrated almost a month before.

Apparently lots of people don't have a problem with that. If you don't that's fine. I just object to being bombarded with Christmas commercials and seeing Christmas items for sale when it's not even past Thanksgiving.

Retailers managed to make store changes after Thanksgiving in the past (and not before) so the only reason they can't or won't wait now is because they are pushing Christmas forward. It makes them more money. And according to @Tomorrow's cause and effect it's because people want that.

I'm not with that group of people.

 

[acorntoy]

I agree. Retailers haven't figured out how to monetize this yet.

But @Tomorrow is arguing that the commercialization of the Christmas season is based on what people want. So, people must want Christmas more than they want Thanksgiving. Which means a holiday that occurs about a month after another is being celebrated almost a month before.

Apparently lots of people don't have a problem with that. If you don't that's fine. I just object to being bombarded with Christmas commercials and seeing Christmas items for sale when it's not even past Thanksgiving.

Retailers managed to make store changes after Thanksgiving in the past (and not before) so the only reason they can't now is because they are pushing Christmas forward. It makes them more money. And according to @Tomorrow's cause and effect it's because people want that.

I'm not with that group of people.

It’s not being celebrated, it’s being anticipated, people are excited for it, because its more exciting to get and give things than it is to most likely argue about politics and eat excessively, which if we are being honest with ourselves is what most Americans do every day anyways. Like you said unless your a supermarket monetization is hard with thanksgiving, so it’s simply skipped.


Thanksgiving is mostly forgotten because

1) The “meaning” behind it is constantly now being questioned with “but everybody wasn’t that thankful to each other…”
2) the ritual of it is something Americans do pretty much every day anyways
3) you can’t really monetize it unless your selling food

 

[theluggage]

Maybe it’s partly because we are a lot more global focused now. Global brands can’t focus on Thanksgiving as it’s only celebrated by one country. In Europe many don’t even know what the holiday is for.

Here in the UK, we may not have Thanksgiving, but that hasn't stopped the stores running "Black Friday" promos for the last few years. Sigh. Although I understand its backfired a bit because (surprise!) customers who fill their boots on Black Friday go on to spend less in the traditional pre-Christmas and January sales.

You bring up a good point. Will our kids care about thanksgiving since its a day celebrating the murder and rape of native americans and the stealing of their land?

Hey, in England we have Guy Fawkes night where we celebrate burning people... (OK, people who tried to blow up parliament but, well, I won't raise the religious sectarian overtones here, just like 'V for Vendetta' didn't, but lets just say the story isn't cute and fluffy - obviously the popularity may vary depending on the make-up of the local community). Its getting sidelined by the USA version of Halloween now (can't think why...) and Diwali - if you hate fireworks, best to leave the country between mid-October and mid-November.

 

[Mousse]

We don’t decorate at all for Christmas. We don’t celebrate it at all. Not everyone does for a variety of reasons.
Role on January!

Y'all celebrate Festivus? Most people who hate the commercialization of Christmas to the point of refusing to put up decorations celebrate Festivus. I keep one traditions of Festivus, namely the airing of grievances.

Thanksgiving is mostly forgotten because

1) The “meaning” behind it is constantly now being questioned with “but everybody wasn’t that thankful to each other…”
2) the ritual of it is something Americans do pretty much every day anyways
3) you can’t really monetize it unless your selling food

 

[Apple fanboy]

Y'all celebrate Festivus? Most people who hate the commercialization of Christmas to the point of refusing to put up decorations celebrate Festivus. I keep one traditions of Festivus, namely the airing of grievances.

I don’t just hate the commercialisation of Christmas. I hate it all.
I am the grinch!

 

[Tomorrow]

...people must want Christmas more than Thanksgiving because the advertising retailers are doing reflects that according to your cause and effect.

Actually, people want to shop for Christmas earlier than they want to shop for Thanksgiving. They want to buy gifts for Christmas more than they want to buy gifts for Thanksgiving. They want to buy decorations for Christmas more than they want to buy decorations for Thanksgiving.

You're trying to turn this into something it isn't; you're determined to make it a reason to cry tears for Thanksgiving because doggone it, people must not like it as much as they like Christmas. When people shop for Thanksgiving - and they do, make no mistake - they tend to spend their money (1) food, and (2) travel. Gifts really aren't on the list, that's not necessarily a sign that people don't hold the holiday in as high regard.

Look, you could buy a turkey for Thanksgiving in July if that'll make you feel better, but it will spoil before the holiday.

 

[Mac'nCheese]

People do shop for Christmas all year round. Every touristy place I've been to has xmas ornaments and other stuff for people on vacation to bring back. Every tourist town has a christmas shop and the Christmas Tree Store is open year round (they have other stuff too, but still)

Anyway, on the opposite side, my wife's family has always believed that if your xmas decorations are out past Jan 31st, you're an alcoholic.

 

[eyoungren]

Actually, people want to shop for Christmas earlier than they want to shop for Thanksgiving. They want to buy gifts for Christmas more than they want to buy gifts for Thanksgiving. They want to buy decorations for Christmas more than they want to buy decorations for Thanksgiving.

You're trying to turn this into something it isn't; you're determined to make it a reason to cry tears for Thanksgiving because doggone it, people must not like it as much as they like Christmas. When people shop for Thanksgiving - and they do, make no mistake - they tend to spend their money (1) food, and (2) travel. Gifts really aren't on the list, that's not necessarily a sign that people don't hold the holiday in as high regard.

Look, you could buy a turkey for Thanksgiving in July if that'll make you feel better, but it will spoil before the holiday.

Majority rules eh?

I suppose I should be used to that by now. I'm in a minority on just about everything.

 

[Apple fanboy]

People do shop for Christmas all year round. Every touristy place I've been to has xmas ornaments and other stuff for people on vacation to bring back. Every tourist town has a christmas shop and the Christmas Tree Store is open year round (they have other stuff too, but still)

Anyway, on the opposite side, my wife's family has always believed that if your xmas decorations are out past Jan 31st, you're an alcoholic.

Is it normal to leave decerations up until the end of January in the US then?

 

[Mac'nCheese]

Is it normal to leave decerations up until the end of January in the US then?

Yup, and sometimes longer..

Do people go over the top with decorations and leave them up too long across the pond as well or is that us Americans, overdoing and trying to be the best, as usual.

 

[Apple fanboy]

Yup, and sometimes longer..

Do people go over the top with decorations and leave them up too long across the pond as well or is that us Americans, overdoing and trying to be the best, as usual.

Well I think you guys do it bigger, but people over do it here to. Most people take their decorations down by 12th night after Christmas.
But November (as some have mentioned on here), until February seems an awfully long time.
Those trees will be bald!

 

[Tomorrow]

Majority rules eh?

I suppose I should be used to that by now. I'm in a minority on just about everything.

You really want to dictate to vendors what they can sell and when they can sell it based on when you think they should.

I've seen everything.

 

[Mac'nCheese]

Majority rules eh?

I suppose I should be used to that by now. I'm in a minority on just about everything.

It’s not majority rules, it’s capitalism.

 

[eyoungren]

You really want to dictate to vendors what they can sell and when they can sell it based on when you think they should.

I've seen everything.

Why not?

That's what the majority is doing. You are saying that the retailers respond to the customer. So, the customer is dictating what they want to the retailer by increasing their demand.

If the situation were reversed would I be so wrong?
[doublepost=1542153808][/doublepost]

It’s not majority rules, it’s capitalism.

Which responds to what the majority of people (or their customers) want, not what the minority wants. There's more money in responding to a majority of customers than their is a minority.
[doublepost=1542154030][/doublepost]

Is it normal to leave decerations up until the end of January in the US then?

My wife has yelled at my lazy self for leaving the outside lights up on into late February before. I stop turning them on when January hits, but getting out there to take them down is a pain.

 

[Mac'nCheese]

Why not?

That's what the majority is doing. You are saying that the retailers respond to the customer. So, the customer is dictating what they want to the retailer by increasing their demand.

If the situation were reversed would I be so wrong?
[doublepost=1542153808][/doublepost]
Which responds to what the majority of people (or their customers) want, not what the minority wants. There's more money in responding to a majority of customers than their is a minority.

You’re arguing semantics. Saying it’s majority rules is missing the important part. It’s not just that the majority wants it, the majority of people could say they want it and not act on it. Or for some reason, it wouldn’t be profitable to do what the majority wants. The majority wants cheaper iPhones, they ain’t getting it.