That Mac Shift To ARM...

[repairedCheese]

Unlike laptops, a lot of pro Mac users depend on Mac Pros. Apple isn't going to jerk them along as beta-testers - the trashcan MP nothwithstanding.

This is one of those things I honestly don't have confidence in. Would it be bad for people who just bought the new machines? Probably! But how long do you think Apple will be willing to support a new breed of universal binary? We know they can probably make Arm chips that are likely on par with what they use from Intel, so why not pull another G5? I mean, look how well it worked out last time. For them, that is.

 

[1042686]

On a lighter note, I wonder if they’ll change the model names like they did from ppc to intel.

 

[turbineseaplane]

On a lighter note, I wonder if they’ll change the model names like they did from ppc to intel.

ProfitBook Pro Max?

 

[SocialKonstruct]

I'm somewhat confident there'll be versions of Adobe's apps on ARM macOS eventually.

If the Adobe apps are anything like their iPad counterparts those aren't particularly powerful.
Also I tried to use my iPad Pro with my 27" Acer Predator monitor like a tethered laptop and at that rate, it failed as an experience. Honestly my Surface Book 2 kicked more butt in that department.
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I think there's zero chance of Adobe giving up their monopoly. They already have some apps in iOS (mostly geared towards the iPad Pros), and they will almost certainly support ARM Macs. The lack of bootcamp doesn't necessarily mean a lack of gaming. In fact, iOS is one of the most supported gaming platforms, so I can see even more games being available if Apple creates a hybrid OS. I think your third point is a given. Rosetta was a nice bridge, but it wasn't particularly good at emulating PPC at full speed. This will likely be the case again, where we'll have universal apps during the transition but also some emulation layer in the new ARM Macs that allows users to run their old programs until Apple drops support completely.

Already we had major problems going from Mojave to Catalina with Steam games like Ark which I used to play on Mac when 32-bit support was allowed. I just don't see how this transition is going to go well honestly for Mac gamers.

Plus we are going to see disaster on the horizon for Mac World of Warcraft players. We can tout the Arcade Store but for me, I can't wait to see a full-blown MMO function properly on ARM. The Surface Pro X can only handle 32-bit games in emulation and unless Apple pulls some miracle from a burning bush I just see less functionality on the horizon.

Apple if they are smart should keep all lower-end MacBooks/MacBook Air with ARM and the MBP line on Intel or better yet, AMD.

In fact, I am just puzzled that Apple didn't switch to AMD if Intel was an issue. My AMD Surface Laptop 3 works rather well so far.

 

[alex_free]

Apple to move Mac to Arm CPUs: What you need to know

Apple's move to Arm processors has been telegraphed for months, but developers are going to have to get ready.

www.zdnet.com

inb4 Intel Macs Forum

 

[Amethyst1]

If the Adobe apps are anything like their iPad

If ARM Macs turn out to run full-blown macOS they'll hopefully also get the 'real' Adobe apps, rather than some watered-down versions.
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Also I tried to use my iPad Pro with my 27" Acer Predator monitor like a tethered laptop and at that rate, it failed as an experience.

That's an i(Pad)OS issue though - macOS has great multi-monitor support.

 

[2984839]

inb4 Intel Macs Forum

Awaiting the "Should I wait or buy now" onslaught...

 

[ctrlzone]

I see three problems coming up to the horizon with this.

1) Lack of Adobe support (huge problem as I am a photographer who uses Photoshop and Illustrator for classes)
2) No Bootcamp support (lack of gaming on ARM based chips)
and
3) Issues with running x86 applications on ARM. Surface Pro X didn't go well...

1)i have no doubt Adobe is working already on ARM versions for their full Suite.
2) i think we won't see Bootcamp on ARM mac's
3) well, the surface X was the first, ofc it runs how it runs, this was just the beginning.
i think Apple will ditch x86 completely

I can't see these ARM chips going into the 2019 macpro anytime soon though.
Surely they arn't man enough to run 24/7 running calcs/sims.

they will never come to this mac pro, this amount of cooling is not needed
with ARM, you can pack that Power and more into a mac mini case.

 

[1042686]

ProfitBook Pro Max?

I vote for profitbook

PowerPC was such a perfect setup for the Powermac & powerbook. The marketing stars don’t align like that too often.

 

[nebo1ss]

I wish i understood why anyone would be excited about this. i cannot think of a single reason why this would be good for users.

 

[1042686]

I wish i understood why anyone would be excited about this. i cannot think of a single reason why this would be good for users.

Think different, bruh.

 

[Alexis Trinquet]

I vote for profitbook

PowerPC was such a perfect setup for the Powermac & powerbook. The marketing stars don’t align like that too often.

My vote for the device identifier doohickies goes for something like "ARMacX,Y" or ARMacbookX,Y"

 

[AshleyPomeroy]

On a lighter note, I wonder if they’ll change the model names like they did from ppc to intel.

I occasionally forget that the PowerBook name predates PowerPC. Does anybody know where the PowerBook name came from? Was it just marketing blurb? Looking at contemporary adverts Apple seemed to emphasise the small size and ease-of-use rather than raw processing power and Sculley-era Apple apparently intended for the PowerBook 100 to be a relatively simple, low-cost machine.

My guess is that, assuming this is true, Apple will try to make the switch as transparent as possible, and will continue to use the MacBook name. It would be neat if they revived iBook, though. The name still fits the rest of their product portfolio.

 

[comda]

My understanding is that while it is ARM, these are Apple produced chips. I believe then that we will eventually see the final construction of the Apple walled garden.

Apple has been tracking this way lately with SIP and their focus on preventing changes to MacOS. I foresee a day when the Mac you purchase is just like your iPhone. To use it in the way you wish you will need to jailbreak it - if that's even still a thing by then. I don't like where this is going.

That said, I'm about ten years or so behind Apple's leading products. It's a shame, but that new (old) MP I just bought may be my last Mac purchase. I'm willing to jailbreak my iDevices, but not so much my computers (I shouldn't have to).

Be interesting to see where all this goes. It'd be nice if I was wrong.

Its this that rather concerns me for Louis Rossmann and the right to repair. Louis is already complaining that certain chips are difficult to come by when fixing boards and Apple in their infinite wisdom claims to be eco friendly, but is more contempt (like any business really) to keep pushing out product instead of fixing it and circulating older things to keep our e-waste at a minimum.

That and I don't know about some of you folks, but as a student who is now rocking a 2012 MacBook Pro 15", having the ability to boot windows and an x86 environment is very helpful at times. Rarely do I fire up bootcamp or my Virtual machine (about once or twice a month)

 

[Amethyst1]

It would be neat if they revived iBook, though.

That will happen... once they release an eBook reader. 😂
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having the ability to boot windows and an x86 environment is very helpful at times.

This. Losing the ability to virtualise (rather than emulate at a snail's pace) x86 OSes would be a dealbreaker for me. Back in the ppc days I needed to keep a crappy x86 laptop around just for this.

 

[1042686]

I occasionally forget that the PowerBook name predates PowerPC. Does anybody know where the PowerBook name came from? Was it just marketing blurb? Looking at contemporary adverts Apple seemed to emphasise the small size and ease-of-use rather than raw processing power and Sculley-era Apple apparently intended for the PowerBook 100 to be a relatively simple, low-cost machine.

My guess is that, assuming this is true, Apple will try to make the switch as transparent as possible, and will continue to use the MacBook name. It would be neat if they revived iBook, though. The name still fits the rest of their product portfolio.

Derp stupid me. Indeed The Powerbook 100 had a 68k cpu. Good to know as I certainly did not know. I guess the marketing stars really didn't align.

 

[repairedCheese]

Already we had major problems going from Mojave to Catalina with Steam games like Ark which I used to play on Mac when 32-bit support was allowed. I just don't see how this transition is going to go well honestly for Mac gamers.

Plus we are going to see disaster on the horizon for Mac World of Warcraft players. We can tout the Arcade Store but for me, I can't wait to see a full-blown MMO function properly on ARM. The Surface Pro X can only handle 32-bit games in emulation and unless Apple pulls some miracle from a burning bush I just see less functionality on the horizon.

Apple if they are smart should keep all lower-end MacBooks/MacBook Air with ARM and the MBP line on Intel or better yet, AMD.

In fact, I am just puzzled that Apple didn't switch to AMD if Intel was an issue. My AMD Surface Laptop 3 works rather well so far.

This. Losing the ability to virtualise (rather than emulate at a snail's pace) x86 OSes would be a dealbreaker for me. Back in the ppc days I needed to keep a crappy x86 laptop around just for this.

I think it's fairly clear that for several years now, Apple hasn't really cared what the rest of the x86 world does. When you add their current battle with nVidia on top of all of this, and the lack of native Vulkan support, I highly doubt they care if they just lost Windows and x86 support tomorrow. Apple has never been about what the consumer asks for, they've been trying to tell you what you want for decades.

Sometimes it works, just look at how the iPhone reshaped phones so many times. But it's never been about what the consumer is asking for, because I can't think of anyone who asked for phone makers to take away the audio jack.

 

[MarkC426]

Why is this in the PowerPC forum......?

 

[AL1630]

Its this that rather concerns me for Louis Rossmann and the right to repair. Louis is already complaining that certain chips are difficult to come by when fixing boards and Apple in their infinite wisdom claims to be eco friendly, but is more contempt (like any business really) to keep pushing out product instead of fixing it and circulating older things to keep our e-waste at a minimum.

That's one of the first things I thought of too. The new T2 chips and related 'security features' have made it very difficult to repair new macs, according to Louis. With an ARM transition, apple could likely lock down their hardware completely and make independent repair near impossible. And their repair prices and outright refusal to work on anything over a couple years old will ensure that "Buy a new one" becomes even more common.

Old machines should still work for many people for many years - if it's a few years old but repairable, why trash it?

 

[iluvmacs99]

ARM for Apple stands for Always Redundant Machines. Think Disposable.

 

[bobesch]

Why is this in the PowerPC forum......?

Because we dare to think ahead ...
"Only those who know the past will have a future." (A.v.Humboldt)

 

[Macbookprodude]

Why is this in the PowerPC forum......?

Because ARM is like PowerPC - its a RISC processor and also its spirit in part of ARM. This means that PowerPC won and Intel lost because even I predicted back then that Apple would drop Intel for someone better. Maybe think different will make a come back and a Mac will feel like a Mac again. I am not knocking Intel, just hate that company with all its faults and false lies and promises. Yes, PowerPC also had some issues, but not like Intel.
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ARM for Apple stands for Always Redundant Machines. Think Disposable.

It is my hope the move to ARM will produce some great machines like in the PowerPC era. Typing this on a G4 1GHZ Titanium.

 

[timidpimpin]

I'm looking forward to seeing macOS for ARM shoehorned into QEMU and onto a Raspberry Pi then.

I couldn't imagine that performing very well. Maybe I'm wrong.

 

[weckart]

We know they can probably make Arm chips that are likely on par with what they use from Intel, so why not pull another G5?

We do? I just don't see ARM chips even approaching anything like what a Xeon can do. Not now, not this year nor any year soon.

At best, you are looking at the MacBook Air, maybe even a base model Mac Mini. Fine for consumption and low grunt creation. Apple doesn't even offer Xcode for the iPad Pro - it's all done on proper Intel hardware.

 

[repairedCheese]

We do? I just don't see ARM chips even approaching anything like what a Xeon can do. Not now, not this year nor any year soon.

At best, you are looking at the MacBook Air, maybe even a base model Mac Mini. Fine for consumption and low grunt creation. Apple doesn't even offer Xcode for the iPad Pro - it's all done on proper Intel hardware.

Well, you're right that we haven't seen Arm cpus at the level of Xeons yet, the but the iPad Pro pretty much shows they can probably make something within spitting distance if they decide to go all in on Arm. I generally am assuming they are, given their past history, but it's entirely possible I'm wrong.

Not really sure what running Xcode on an iPad has to do with that, though, unless you think they're going to be running iOS on these new Macs. Do you really think they're going all in on the Chromebookification of the Mac OS just because they're switching to a new cpu again?

Really, I don't think this is about power. Apple seems to have been clamping down on anyone who doesn't do things the way they want. What better way to get control than to make all the parts themselves?