THAT's Dinosaur Encounter?

[mattspace]

In the nicest way, do you think it's possible your opinion is slightly less informed than that of the people who have actually experienced it?

No, no I don't. I understand why people are amazed. I've literally watched hundreds of people experience VR for the first time. It's a near-religious experience for a lot of them. That's not unique to Apple, or the AVP.

It sounds like your attitude is that the people who liked it just don't understand VR so they're wrong to be impressed by this headset and if only they did a bit more research into other VR headsets they'd understand how inferior it is. Apple have made trade-offs in the overall design, but those trade-offs are exactly what makes this appealing to the kind of people who would never consider buying a Varjo XR-4, whatever that is. And there's clearly value in bringing this to a wider audience, even if it means that the dinosaur doesn't come all the way out of the window.

I think the majority of people impressed with it are kindof like Americans who think Starbucks is good coffee.

Fundamentally, I don't think it's going to turn out to be particularly good at the things that really benefit from proprioceptive 3D (because I don't think the graphics hardware in it is up to the task, which I suspect is why the dinosaur encounter is restricted to a window, rather than being an actual immersive experience), and will instead be a sugarfix way to make things that can be done just as well on a flat screen more exciting... for a while.

 

[mattspace]

If you've only seen a YouTube video of it, you haven't had the experience. First person, it's pretty cool. The big dinosaur leans out of the window and into your 3D space, and it feels like it is inches from you. Its head follows you, and it snaps at your hand if you reach out to it. Even knowing that the dinosaur isn't really there, it kinda made me jump when it did that. Not saying its life changing or anything, but it's a really neat experience that shows off how immersive the headset can be - the immersive sensation is much greater than any other headset I have tried.

Yeah, I get that - I understand the joy of convincing immersion. I literally wept at the possibilities the first time I tried Tilt Brush in a Vive. However, I don't need to experience it in person to know that putting the 3D in a floating window is a cheat to cut down on the amount of work the graphics system has to do. Instead of rendering a fully realised 360x180 world, all it needs to produce is a narrow slice, that's locked down to a very limited degree of angular change.

That's what worries me, because again like Marathon only using a third of the screen for the 3D window, it's an indicator of how much filler is being used in the sausage-making process, that you'd only notice if you know how the sausage is made. And to me that is a warning that this headset may not live up to its expectations.

I keep thinking of all the people who were convinced it was going to be a great external display for their Mac, that it would be like sitting in front of a real display, because they saw the PPI of the displays, but didn't understand the implications of PPD in a headset.

 

[Ta_whirimatea]

Another example, this is Leap Motion's AR system (5 years ago), which is projection onto a clear face-shield, rather than passthrough video. Hand tracking is clean, object occlusion is accurate, and the UI is interesting - this is the sort of stuff I'm more keen to see than floating iPad windows. In the broader scope of things, VisionOS looks a bit, eh *shrug*

That’s really cool. I could see a future phone / headset device where your wearing a ‘google glass’ like headset & you lift your iPhone into the viewing area & it opens a scroll capability from its side.

 

[mattspace]

There’s a sweet spot of focus and depth that has good quality. But for the most part, it’s just a simple stereoscopic effect that isn’t really executed very well.

I still remember seeing Avatar in 3D IMAX, and the whole film I was fighting against the fact that Cameron was using depth of field and focus distance to direct the viewer, which is a 2D filmmaking technique to create the experience of depth, but my brain knew it should be able to focus at any distance within the scene. Haven't been to a 3D movie since.

That’s really cool. I could see a future phone / headset device where your wearing a ‘google glass’ like headset & you lift your iPhone into the viewing area & it opens a scroll capability from its side.

Yes, I've often thought a better answer was for it to be a peripheral, that grids your multitasking screens around the physical device which has the high DPI display, and you can swipe them in to be active in the centre, etc.

 

[turbineseaplane]

Seriously? THAT's what people have been hyping?

Yep..

It’s good context to have for all the other aspects of some “rave reviews” of AVP

 

[turbineseaplane]

I still remember seeing Avatar in 3D IMAX, and the whole film I was fighting against the fact that Cameron was using depth of field and focus distance to direct the viewer, which is a 2D filmmaking technique to create the experience of depth, but my brain knew it should be able to focus at any distance within the scene. Haven't been to a 3D movie since.

Same

I hated that

 

[klasma]

When the “Dinosaur Encounter” app was first mentioned, I thought “ah, that will be the exciting VR app that the dinosaur demo from last June was a teaser for, and we’ll be able to explore the world behind the portal, with different settings like the jungle and whatnot”. Turns out, the “teaser” is all there is to it.

 

[chaospet]

When the “Dinosaur Encounter” app was first mentioned, I thought “ah, that will be the exciting VR app that the dinosaur demo from last June was a teaser for, and we’ll be able to explore the world behind the portal, with different settings like the jungle and whatnot”. Turns out, the “teaser” is all there is to it.

I just figured it was a cute little mixed reality tech demo, similar to the little demo mixed reality game that came with the Quest 3 where little aliens burst in through your walls. I guess people were reading a whole lot more into what this was supposed to be than I did!

 

[NT1440]

Waitaminute - Dinosaur Encounter is a floating window, it's not an immersive thing you exist within? You can't walk around the terrain objects, look around you and see a fully realised world?

Seriously? THAT's what people have been hyping?

It’s a demo.

 

[Gleipnir]

don't understand why there is so much dissatisfaction with a demo.

 

[Gleipnir]

Which is exactly why Apple can get away with lackluster and often downright idiotic decisions.

name one

 

[eicca]

name one

Where shall I begin:

-Autocorrect, needs no further explanation.
-Changing wallpapers, once simple, is now hideously convoluted. Even WORSE on Mac. Shouldn’t have to google how to set a wallpaper and screensaver
-Contact posters give you no choice but to accept what the other user sets. All my favorite photos of my family were wiped out
-Apple TV is a UX disaster that takes 4-5 more clicks to accomplish the same task as a Roku, and is constantly popping up nagging “suggestions” while I just want to watch the content AND it takes over my iPhone randomly, meaning my stuff either stops playing or I try to play a song for myself and ruin whatever’s being watched in the living room
-Removing the options for audio ducking behind spoken voice in maps
-Replacing the actually-useful “time since full charge” metric with the pretty-much-useless “screen-on time”
-Making Mark-Up less-effective and more confusing
-Notification banners, instead of displaying their two options like in Mojave, now has two buttons to access the same two options. UX rookie mistake.
-Removing the text selection magnifier was probably the stupidest decision in all of human history, and they should’ve brought it back in one update instead of three years.
-Apple Music just slices and dices your local files to this day if you don’t keep it under strict lock and key, among numerous other bugs and issues
-The macOS system settings redesign is still confounding
-External display management has been a disaster for years. Basic functions that they refuse to fix

Those are the ones I can think of off the top of my head, and I’m sure I will encounter more as I work today.

The general trend with Apple is that when they update something, it becomes less effective and often more confusing.

 

[Gleipnir]

Where shall I begin:

-Autocorrect, needs no further explanation.
-Changing wallpapers, once simple, is now hideously convoluted. Even WORSE on Mac. Shouldn’t have to google how to set a wallpaper and screensaver
-Contact posters give you no choice but to accept what the other user sets. All my favorite photos of my family were wiped out
-Apple TV is a UX disaster that takes 4-5 more clicks to accomplish the same task as a Roku, and is constantly popping up nagging “suggestions” while I just want to watch the content AND it takes over my iPhone randomly, meaning my stuff either stops playing or I try to play a song for myself and ruin whatever’s being watched in the living room
-Removing the options for audio ducking behind spoken voice in maps
-Replacing the actually-useful “time since full charge” metric with the pretty-much-useless “screen-on time”
-Making Mark-Up less-effective and more confusing
-Notification banners, instead of displaying their two options like in Mojave, now has two buttons to access the same two options. UX rookie mistake.
-Removing the text selection magnifier was probably the stupidest decision in all of human history, and they should’ve brought it back in one update instead of three years.
-Apple Music just slices and dices your local files to this day if you don’t keep it under strict lock and key, among numerous other bugs and issues
-The macOS system settings redesign is still confounding
-External display management has been a disaster for years. Basic functions that they refuse to fix

Those are the ones I can think of off the top of my head, and I’m sure I will encounter more as I work today.

Turn out it was just a minor issue in the system, I thought it was something serious. According to your standard, there isn't a single company in this world that isn't "lackluster and often downright idiotic."

 

[sherwinzadeh]

Waitaminute - Dinosaur Encounter is a floating window, it's not an immersive thing you exist within? You can't walk around the terrain objects, look around you and see a fully realised world?

Seriously? THAT's what people have been hyping?

So far the most impressive thing for me is the Apple TV+ Immersive videos.

 

[Crow_Servo]

There’s nothing wrong with having high expectations for your devices, but the obvious response to your criticisms of the AVP is that it’s only version one. Of course, that doesn’t mean a future version will someday meet your expectations, but it also doesn’t mean it won’t.

It does sound like you have very specific tastes and ideas about VR and everything else in life, so there is a good possibility that Apple’s headsets will never impress you. If you’re looking for a truly next-level VR experience full of mind-blowing immersion, Apple isn’t ready to deliver on that front.

This device is meant to set the foundation for things to come as far as Apple is concerned, so that Dinosaur Encounter demo is them dipping their toes into the water. I can see the immersion levels increasing over time, if that’s what Apple and their fellow developers want.

I‘m drawn to the AVP as a 3D movie-viewing device and not much else, but I realize that the hype surrounding it inspires a lot more ideas than what is being delivered so far. We’ll just have to wait and see how many of those ideas become a reality and/or grow into something impressive.

 

[eicca]

Turn out it was just a minor issue in the system, I thought it was something serious. According to your standard, there isn't a single company in this world that isn't "lackluster and often downright idiotic."

Minor issue. Lol. More like increasing frustrations where things use to "just work."

I brought my parents into the Apple ecosystem cuz they didn't have to call me or use Google to figure out how to use stuff. And it was that way for several years. Now, more and more, they have to call me or use Google to figure out the latest infuriating butt-stupid changes that Apple pushed just for the sake of changing things.

 

[Gleipnir]

Minor issue. Lol. More like increasing frustrations where things use to "just work."

The reason I say this is a minor issue is because I originally thought you would point out some directional or prospective errors of the company, but it turns out it's just a certain feature of the system that doesn't meet your expectations. Name a company that is not 'lackluster and often downright idiotic.' based on your standards.

I brought my parents into the Apple ecosystem cuz they didn't have to call me or use Google to figure out how to use stuff. And it was that way for several years. Now, more and more, they have to call me or use Google to figure out the latest infuriating butt-stupid changes that Apple pushed just for the sake of changing things.

Of course, it's because there are more and more functions, so it's quite normal for some people hard to learn. It is recommended to use a feature phone, which is simple, easy to use, and has almost no learning curve.

TBH, I still very much agree with you that the changes after the iPhone 6 are unnecessary and redundant. The iPhone 6 is already capable of sending messages, making calls, and browsing the web quite well.

 

[dmr727]

It's analogous to the original Marathon on Mac - it was the Apple world's answer to Doom on PC, but whereas Doom ran full screen, with a little UI strip at the bottom, Marathon used 2/3 of the screen real estate for UI, so the actual 3D game window was this tiny little space, which meant the less capable 3D hardware on the Mac could run the game.

Just a minor point - neither game was utilizing 3D hardware at this time. Doesn't really change your point, but it wouldn't be the internet if I didn't feel compelled to point this out.

 

[eicca]

I originally thought you would point out some directional or prospective errors of the company

Fair enough. I shall do that now:

Apple has such a fanbase that idolizes them to the level of religious fanaticism. Because of that, they can make lazy, uninformed, poorly-tested, and downright idiotic decisions without fear of large backlash.

They are riding a wave of power given to them by consumers that think they can do no wrong.

Those of us who choose to think critically can see it very very easily.


Not to say Apple isn’t the best fit for my workflow needs. Heck, I just bought an iPad Mini an hour ago. But they are irritating my workflow repeatedly because they keep doing dumb crap cuz people just roll over and take it.

Like when Ventura launched and they removed the quick-n-easy “Share as PDF” option from the system. It took a massive uproar on their own support forums to get that back six months later.

 

[Gleipnir]

Apple has such a fanbase that idolizes them to the level of religious fanaticism. Because of that, they can make lazy, uninformed, poorly-tested, and downright idiotic decisions without fear of large backlash.

Huh? Name someone/brand with a huge fan base that has none of those things you mentioned.

lazy, uninformed, poorly-tested, and downright idiotic decisions

So far, I haven't seen any specific examples you mentioned. What you pointed out are just some trivial matters, such as "a system function not meeting my preferences." Why don't you say "the color of the new device doesn't align with my preferences" is also a "lazy, uninformed, poorly-tested, and downright idiotic decision"? (God, I think it's an absolutely shortsighted decision for Apple to use yellow in the iPhone. No one likes yellow! This will lead to the company's bankruptcy and collapse. It's really terrible.)

Essentially, you can replace the part after "lazy, uninformed, poorly-tested, and downright idiotic decisions" with any company/person, so this so-called "criticism" is meaningless. I think someone who has learned to think a little can very very very easily see this.

BTW, your previous criticism about your parents often needing to search for how to use new devices is also quite ridiculous: 10 years ago when phones could only send text messages and make calls, my parents didn't need Google to learn how to use them. Ten years later, they've somehow added 100 new features! It's truly terrifying. My parents can't figure it out, so it's definitely very "lazy, uninformed, poorly-tested, and downright idiotic decisions".

 

[Gleipnir]

I already listed several stupid and poorly-considered changes they made that caused their products to be substantially worse for the end user than what came before.

Because that simply ain't some "directional or prospective errors." At best, it's just your personal preference, like "Replacing the actually-useful 'time since full charge' metric with the pretty-much-useless 'screen-on time'."

This kind of criticism is similar to not liking the new colors of new devices. It can't be called "lazy, uninformed, poorly-tested, and downright idiotic decisions".

This shop actually replaced the delicious Americano with a terrible-tasting latte! It's awful, this is definitely a lazy, uninformed, poorly-tested, and downright idiotic decision.

 

[ReallyBigFeet]

I dunno, I have been using VR, both PCVR and standalone, for years now. So I’m pretty far past the “religious experience” of your first VR with 3/6 DOF running.

But this was VERY vivid. The portal opening, the scene unfolding, the spatial sound, etc. When the small dinosaur follows the butterfly and it flies away, I was actually kneeling forward towards the portal and when my hand reached out to it I actually brushed against the wall where it was being projected and made contact and my mind thought for just a moment I touched the little fella. I haven’t experienced that with such fidelity and “faux reality feeling” since maybe the first time I really hooked my Oculus up to my high end PC (at the time). And the QPro/Q3 don’t come anywhere near this level of immersion with their joy-trollers and hand tracking is far less natural/janky on both those devices.

I’m a simple guy I guess. It left me feeling very, very positive about what the AVP is going to usher in for consumers if for no other reason than Apple is fully behind it and not hawking the “MetaVerse” as the new world, but rather using your own world and the AVP as your new interface to same.

 

[ErikGrim]

It's analogous to the original Marathon on Mac - it was the Apple world's answer to Doom on PC, but whereas Doom ran full screen, with a little UI strip at the bottom, Marathon used 2/3 of the screen real estate for UI, so the actual 3D game window was this tiny little space, which meant the less capable 3D hardware on the Mac could run the game.

Marathon ran 640x480 fullscreen on any 68020+ Mac. It of course ran on the CPU only as 3D GPUs weren't even a thing yet. You are absolutely misremembering these "facts" or just talking out your blowhole.

 

[eicca]

Because that simply ain't some "directional or prospective errors." At best, it's just your personal preference, like "Replacing the actually-useful 'time since full charge' metric with the pretty-much-useless 'screen-on time'."

This kind of criticism is similar to not liking the new colors of new devices. It can't be called "lazy, uninformed, poorly-tested, and downright idiotic decisions".

This shop actually replaced the delicious Americano with a terrible-tasting latte! It's awful, this is definitely a lazy, uninformed, poorly-tested, and downright idiotic decision.

How are you not reading what I’m writing?

Color has nothing to do with the ability to accomplish a task. None of what I’ve listed is preferential.

It’s objectively bad functionality.

Apple’s INCREASINGLY STUPID CHANGES make it INCREASINGLY DIFFICULT to ACCOMPLISH A TASK.

That clear enough for you?

 

[Gleipnir]

I brought my parents into the Apple ecosystem cuz they didn't have to call me or use Google to figure out how to use stuff. And it was that way for several years. Now, more and more, they have to call me or use Google to figure out the latest infuriating butt-stupid changes that Apple pushed just for the sake of changing things.

According to your standards, do you ever feel that you often make lazy, uninformed, poorly-tested, and downright idiotic decisions? Like this one?

It’s objectively bad functionality.

Do you think there's a possibility that a feature you find terrible might be useful in others' eyes?

I think people with normal intelligence should be able to recognize this very, very easily.

I was hoping you would say "Apple watch/ Airpods/ is a very bad product, they will cause balblabla" but instead you showed me this...