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Adelphos33

macrumors 68000
Original poster
Mar 13, 2012
1,602
1,879
I am surprised this computer apparently hasn't sold as well as people expected - maybe because of the timing of its release?

It is a huge screen, but very light - I can get much more of my work on the screen than on the 13". Seems like a great computer for both travel and for parking at home. When I need a portable machine with a lower footprint, I can use an iPad (say on something like an airplane).
 

PerfectCr

macrumors regular
Sep 3, 2007
227
13

JPack

macrumors G5
Mar 27, 2017
12,669
23,574
Because it's big. The notebook sweet spot in recent years has been 13- and 14-inches. At 15-inches, it becomes bulky. If you want a big display, it's so easy to just buy a USB-C monitor. Most people don't need 15-inches on the road.

We know Apple has been considering 15-inch MBA since 2007. If it were such a low hanging fruit, Apple would have capitalized on that years ago.

Look at when the 15-inch MBA was launched. It was conceived in 2022 in anticipation of waning of the pandemic and Mac sales.
 

Tenashus1

macrumors 6502
Jul 27, 2011
474
254
I am surprised this computer apparently hasn't sold as well as people expected - maybe because of the timing of its release?

It is a huge screen, but very light - I can get much more of my work on the screen than on the 13". Seems like a great computer for both travel and for parking at home. When I need a portable machine with a lower footprint, I can use an iPad (say on something like an airplane).
Screen was to big for me. Sounds funny, but true.
 

TechRunner

macrumors 65816
Oct 28, 2016
1,284
2,189
SW Florida, US
There's probably a small subset of people like me with lighter workloads who waited a loooong time for a 15" Air, then gave up and went Windows. I've seen the 15" MBA and it's a beauty, no doubt. It's exactly what I was waiting for. But I've only had my (surprisingly excellent) XPS 15 two years, and given its RAM/SSD upgradeability, I will get a few more years out of it.
 

Mainsail

macrumors 68020
Sep 19, 2010
2,354
3,153
Too big. The point for MBA (for me..) is having small, light and as mobile as possible device while having all the power for my needs.
I generally agree. The typical MBA consumer wants a great everyday computer that is also very portable. That said; I am sure there is some segment of the MBA market that will appreciate the larger screen. Of course, for desktop work, you can always plug the 13.6" into a monitor for more real estate.
 

JPack

macrumors G5
Mar 27, 2017
12,669
23,574
There's probably a small subset of people like me with lighter workloads who waited a loooong time for a 15" Air, then gave up and went Windows. I've seen the 15" MBA and it's a beauty, no doubt. It's exactly what I was waiting for. But I've only had my (surprisingly excellent) XPS 15 two years, and given its RAM/SSD upgradeability, I will get a few more years out of it.

Even in the PC world, a 15-inch ultrabook is a very rare product due to low demand. Of the top 5 notebook vendors in the world, only #3 and #4 have something. And it's only one product.

1. Lenovo
2. HP
3. Dell - XPS 15
4. Apple - MBA 15
5. Acer
 

TechRunner

macrumors 65816
Oct 28, 2016
1,284
2,189
SW Florida, US
Even in the PC world, a 15-inch ultrabook is a very rare product due to low demand. Of the top 5 notebook vendors in the world, only #3 and #4 have something. And it's only one product.

1. Lenovo
2. HP
3. Dell - XPS 15
4. Apple - MBA 15
5. Acer
That's interesting. I would have thought there would be more on the Windows side, but after reading your post, I realized that nearly all Windows laptop users I know have 14" laptops. And the ones who don't have boat anchor-style gaming laptops. Good post!
 

Bazza1

macrumors 6502a
May 16, 2017
706
532
Toronto, Canada
Size. Weight. Price.
It ain't the product Jobs slipped out of a Manila envelope those years ago, while the price (even with the recent hacks at it) takes it out of the realm of affordable-but-capable device for high school / uni students and daily road warriors.
 

GMShadow

macrumors 68000
Jun 8, 2021
1,811
7,431
Size. Weight. Price.
It ain't the product Jobs slipped out of a Manila envelope those years ago, while the price (even with the recent hacks at it) takes it out of the realm of affordable-but-capable device for high school / uni students and daily road warriors.

The original MBA was $1799. It was not meant to be 'affordable but capable', it was 'premium ultraportable', with serious compromises (limited single USB port, limited battery life, crippled cooling system and slower-than-heck hard disk). I owned one for years, I know it very well.

The 15" is 0.3 pounds more than that original MBA, and leaps and bounds more capable. It's also only 0.6" wider and 0.51" deeper.



As for OP, it's fine. Don't listen to idiots like Kuo, who time and time again prove they don't understand anything about markets and sales.
 

Allen_Wentz

macrumors 68030
Dec 3, 2016
2,738
3,009
USA
I am surprised this computer apparently hasn't sold as well as people expected - maybe because of the timing of its release?

It is a huge screen, but very light - I can get much more of my work on the screen than on the 13". Seems like a great computer for both travel and for parking at home. When I need a portable machine with a lower footprint, I can use an iPad (say on something like an airplane).
The MBP is better in every regard except weight. Perhaps a lot of folks upsizing display choose the much better MBP display.
 

JPack

macrumors G5
Mar 27, 2017
12,669
23,574
The weight and footprint quickly creep up. In terms of size, it occupies 25% more volume than the 13.6-inch model. You immediately feel that. The 15-inch model also exceeds the magical 3 lbs limit that every ultrabook aims for. It weighs 250g more which is equivalent to an iPhone 14 Pro Max.


1700949628845.png
 
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TechZeke

macrumors 68020
Jul 29, 2012
2,455
2,289
Dallas, TX
Haven't seen anything to suggest isn't selling. I can see it being specifically popular during the back-to-school promotion, because a student would benefit the most from a 15" MBA - They need something light and portable, and they may not have the luxury of hooking it up to a larger display. Typically they have to do tasks directly on the laptop in-class or in the library.

Even in the PC world, a 15-inch ultrabook is a very rare product due to low demand. Of the top 5 notebook vendors in the world, only #3 and #4 have something. And it's only one product.

1. Lenovo
2. HP
3. Dell - XPS 15
4. Apple - MBA 15
5. Acer

Not a good example - The PC OEMs have plenty of the affordable 15" and 17" laptops, so of course there not be as much demand for it on the higher end. In Apple's case, if you wanted a macOS laptop with a large display, your only choice has been a $2500 16" MacBook Pro, so demand for an affordable large screen Mac laptop will be higher.
 

JPack

macrumors G5
Mar 27, 2017
12,669
23,574
Haven't seen anything to suggest isn't selling. I can see it being specifically popular during the back-to-school promotion, because a student would benefit the most from a 15" MBA - They need something light and portable, and they may not have the luxury of hooking it up to a larger display. Typically they have to do tasks directly on the laptop in-class or in the library.

It's the lack of sales news that's indicative. Let's ignore the reports by Kuo and Digitmes about poor sales - fine. During Apple's Q4 earnings call this month, there wasn't a single mention of the 15-inch MBA.

You would have expected Cook or Maestri to say, "we had another s*** quarter of Mac sales, but it was buoyed by the popularity of our new MacBook Air 15." But instead, there was zero reference to MBA 15.


Not a good example - The PC OEMs have plenty of the affordable 15" and 17" laptops, so of course there not be as much demand for it on the higher end. In Apple's case, if you wanted a macOS laptop with a large display, your only choice has been a $2500 16" MacBook Pro, so demand for an affordable large screen Mac laptop will be higher.

The point I'm making is the lack of 15-inch ultrabook options from PC makers. PC manufacturers have little differentiation in terms of features, so if a 15-inch ultrabook were a big seller, everyone would be offering one.

This is iPhone 12/13 mini all over again. If a tiny smartphone was a good untapped market, at least a few Android makers would be selling them. Are all Android makers stupid, or is there no market for it. Same thing with an 15-inch ultrabook.

I was actually mistaken with the XPS 15. It's not an ultrabook at all since it's well over 4 lbs.
 

minik

macrumors demi-god
Jun 25, 2007
2,141
1,596
somewhere
I have the 15-inch MacBook Air since launched. It is somewhat smaller footprint than the 15-inch MacBook Pro, but can still be a lunch tray and only offer 2-port.

Wondering anyone will cross shop between the 15-inch MacBook Air and base 14-inch MacBook Pro. US$300 gets twice the storage, more ports, better speaker system, ProMotion and brighter display, may also feel lighter due to the smaller footprint.
 
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OldCorpse

macrumors 68000
Dec 7, 2005
1,758
347
compost heap
I just bought a 15" MBA M2 16/1 - and before I did so, I carefully compared it to the MBPs, both the previous generation and the new M3. While like anyone, I prefer to pay less rather than more, I'm not super price sensitive. In fact, given that I bought my 15" directly from Apple, and it's a 16GB RAM upgrade and 1TB storage upgrade, the price was high enough that I could've just bought the new base 14" MBP M3. Yet, I still bought the MBA.

It's possible (and indeed probable) that I'm not a typical Apple customer, so I don't know how relevant my reasons for purchase are in the big picture of the marketing realm, but FWIW, my reasons for the MBA over the MBP are very much centered around screen size and more importantly weight. Here, I much prefer the lighter and less chunky MBA - I went to the Apple store and compared them pretty closely. Incidentally, I used to own the M1 MBP 13" - I bought it back when the wait for the Air was just too long and the MBP was immediately available, and I really needed a computer and so got the MBP (it was a terrible experience, the MBP was faulty and ultimately I traded it in). Comparing both (15" MBA M2 and MBP M3) in the store was a very, very clear choice for me - I hated the "chunkiness" of the MBP, the density of weight compared to the larger but lighter feeling MBA. So just based on that, I would've always chosen the MBA. But if there were compelling reasons for the MBP, I'd consider it - however the advantages of the MBP, such as they are, are not compelling to me; the MBP has a better quality screen - to my eye, it's barely perceptible in the short examination in the store, but the size certainly is smaller than the 15" MBA, so again, this is not a reason *for me* to go for the MBP (it's possible that if my use case was centered around heavy photo/video editing I'd feel differently about the screen, but I mostly do word processing and web surfing/research). The other advantages of the MBP is a newer generation chipset, but I don't do any heavy visual or 3-D modeling tasks, so again, *for me* the M3 in the MBP is not compelling over the M2 in the MBA. Same with other things like quality of mic or speakers etc. There just isn't enough of a capability difference given my use case between the MBA M2 and MBP M3, so I went for the 15" MBA based purely on aesthetics and "feel". I freely acknowledge that even when it comes to size and weight the differences between the MBA and MBP are very small, but precisely because the MBA has a larger screen, the differences are exaggerated when it comes to the perceived weight or "chunkiness" purely subjectively.

Bottom line, some of us *much* prefer the 15" MBA M2, and indeed like it very much - clearly though there aren't enough of us to impact sales :). So I agree, the 15" MBA is fantastic and I wouldn't trade it for any other Apple *current* offering - though the future may have some surprises for us... for example, I wouldn't mind if the MBA was lighter and had an even longer battery life, maybe OLED screen etc., if that happens, I may have to trade in my current MBA. But so far, I'm very, very pleased with the 15" MBA (it's only been a day so far though, ha, ha!).
 

TechZeke

macrumors 68020
Jul 29, 2012
2,455
2,289
Dallas, TX
It's the lack of sales news that's indicative. Let's ignore the reports by Kuo and Digitmes about poor sales - fine. During Apple's Q4 earnings call this month, there wasn't a single mention of the 15-inch MBA.

You would have expected Cook or Maestri to say, "we had another s*** quarter of Mac sales, but it was buoyed by the popularity of our new MacBook Air 15." But instead, there was zero reference to MBA 15.




The point I'm making is the lack of 15-inch ultrabook options from PC makers. PC manufacturers have little differentiation in terms of features, so if a 15-inch ultrabook were a big seller, everyone would be offering one.

This is iPhone 12/13 mini all over again. If a tiny smartphone was a good untapped market, at least a few Android makers would be selling them. Are all Android makers stupid, or is there no market for it. Same thing with an 15-inch ultrabook.

I was actually mistaken with the XPS 15. It's not an ultrabook at all since it's well over 4 lbs.
Even if it's not huge seller to being noteworthy, that doesn't mean it is selling poorly. That's a big conclusion to make.

Also, You're focusing too much specifically on the term "ultrabook", which is where my disagreement is. For Mac users, it's not just about it being a 15" "Ultrabook", it's also it being an affordable 15" Mac Laptop. Yes, there probably isn't a big market for the 15" "Ultrabook" specifically on the PC side, but I think that is because there are already are already affordable PC 15" and 17" laptops. This also why your comparison to the iPhone 12/13 mini is NOT the same. Android OEMs don't make small phones. PC OEMs have plenty of affordable 15" laptops.

Your arguments would make sense if Apple already had a cheap 15" MacBook in addition to the new 15" MBA, which is the case with the PC OEMs. However, if you want a Mac laptop with a large display for under $2000, the 15" MBA is the first MacBook to provide that option.
 
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NeonNights

macrumors 6502a
Jul 22, 2022
515
625
Many people I know would prefer the larger 15" display but once some of them have one they lament that it's too large. Kind of a 1st world problem so to speak. We don't know the popularity of the 15" MacBook Air because Apple doesn't share the sales figures between models.
Agreed. I was initially really excited about the MBA 15 because I loved my M1 MBA. I bought a Starlight MBA 15 earlier this year but ultimately returned it. I upgraded to 16GB/1TB and after a week of use I realized I needed more power for just light photo/video editing. It was thin and svelte but felt a tad too big, the "lunch tray" analogy fits.

Ultimately I preferred the higher-resolution, better display, and better performance of the MBP 14.
 
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