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Lord Blackadder

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Messi wants out. Now. On a free. Potentially the biggest transfer news since......???? (and no, don't say Neymar).

Barca are saying his 700 million-Euro buyout clause is still active, setting up a potentially damaging battle in the press and the courts. Could get ugly.

So he gets a 21 month suspended sentence. Shame it was suspended.
Claims he didn’t know the police offices were police even though they identified themselves. But if you didn’t know, why were you chanting obscenities about the police?

That doesn't change the fact that he has now been convicted of assaulting a police officer, resisting arrest and attempted bribery (it seems the dropping of the bribery charges was misreported?). The whole thing may go away on appeal, but the transcripts paint a very ugly picture and he's already been convicted somewhat in the court of public opinion ("Do you know who I am?" is NEVER a good look...)

This gives OGS and Southgate more headaches to contend with. The appeals process means this won't go away overnight either.
 
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Apple fanboy

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Feb 21, 2012
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Messi wants out. Now. On a free. Potentially the biggest transfer news since......???? (and no, don't say Neymar).

Barca are saying his 700 million-Euro buyout clause is still active, setting up a potentially damaging battle in the press and the courts. Could get ugly.



That doesn't change the fact that he has now been convicted of assaulting a police officer, resisting arrest and attempted bribery (it seems the dropping of the bribery charges was misreported?). The whole thing may go away on appeal, but the transcripts paint a very ugly picture and he's already been convicted somewhat in the court of public opinion ("Do you know who I am?" is NEVER a good look...)

This gives OGS and Southgate more headaches to contend with. The appeals process means this won't go away overnight either.
Well at least he won’t get abuse from the opposing fans on match days for awhile!
He has been withdrawn from the England squad. But in my opinion he should never have been there.
He still (as far as I know), hasn’t issued an apology.
 
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Scepticalscribe

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In a coffee shop.
Whatever about OGS, I could never imagine Southgate condoning such conduct, especially now that he - Maguire - has been convicted.

Well at least he won’t get abuse from the opposing fans on match days for awhile!
He has been withdrawn from the England squad. But in my opinion he should never have been there.
He still (as far as I know), hasn’t issued an apology.

Completely agreed.

That doesn't change the fact that he has now been convicted of assaulting a police officer, resisting arrest and attempted bribery (it seems the dropping of the bribery charges was misreported?). The whole thing may go away on appeal, but the transcripts paint a very ugly picture and he's already been convicted somewhat in the court of public opinion ("Do you know who I am?" is NEVER a good look...)

This gives OGS and Southgate more headaches to contend with. The appeals process means this won't go away overnight either.

Again, completely agreed.
 

Lord Blackadder

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He has been withdrawn from the England squad. But in my opinion he should never have been there.

Yes. It's a misstep by Southgate IMO - he should have kept his powder dry and let things play out before making a decision. Nobody would blame him for that. He wanted to support the player, and that is laudable, but he should at least have waited till the trial was over.

To be fair to Maguire, this has all developed in the space of a few days, so he's probably still stunned, jetlagged, and emotionally all over the place.

But he's acted the fool and there are going to be consequences for that. He's still a relatively young (albeit very rich) man and it's not the end of the world - but he made some bad choices and even most Man Utd fans would admit this is not what they want to see from their captain.
 

HandsomeDanNZ

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Messi wants out. Now. On a free. Potentially the biggest transfer news since......???? (and no, don't say Neymar).

Barca are saying his 700 million-Euro buyout clause is still active, setting up a potentially damaging battle in the press and the courts. Could get ugly.
If he goes for a free, it still won't be the feeding frenzy that people are expecting, I'd say.
He's arguably the greatest footballer to have lived, but that comes at a cost and he's 33 years old.

700m EUR is a LOT of money and probably only someone in China, Man City or PSG could afford that kind of transfer fee. And would you pay that at his age, when you've realistically got 2-3 years max left in him?
 

MacBH928

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May 17, 2008
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IMO Messi is a coward traitor, he left Barcelona as their ship is sinking down. He never thought of leaving in his past 15 years or so with the club as they were getting their highest achievements. He saw that Barcelona has no trophies in its foreseeable future. Compare that with Ronaldo who left Real Madrid after scoring a Triple UCL trophies.

If Messi wanted to play in another league he had a lot of time to do it, why now?
 

Lord Blackadder

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If he goes for a free, it still won't be the feeding frenzy that people are expecting, I'd say.
He's arguably the greatest footballer to have lived, but that comes at a cost and he's 33 years old.

700m EUR is a LOT of money and probably only someone in China, Man City or PSG could afford that kind of transfer fee. And would you pay that at his age, when you've realistically got 2-3 years max left in him?

The release clause was deliberately set too high for anyone to afford as a way to keep him. Nobody, not even Man City, can afford to pay it.

Barcelona pay him over a million pounds a week, so even if he goes on a free he remains a very expensive player. Given his abilities I think he still has plenty to offer at the highest level for a couple more seasons. He won't be doing as many mazy runs through crowds of defenders but his game intelligence, vision, and touch remain incredible. Also, nobody strikes a more lethal free kick than Messi.

I wonder if MLS will try to snag him at some point - probably in more like 2-3 years when he's truly getting too old for top-flight European ply. Even a 37 year-old Messi could bring out the crowds. Heck, I'd drive the 900-odd miles down to Crew Stadium to see him play.

IMO Messi is a coward traitor, he left Barcelona as their ship is sinking down. He never thought of leaving in his past 15 years or so with the club as they were getting their highest achievements. He saw that Barcelona has no trophies in its foreseeable future. Compare that with Ronaldo who left Real Madrid after scoring a Triple UCL trophies.

If Messi wanted to play in another league he had a lot of time to do it, why now?

Barcelona have been mismanaged for years now.
While there are legitimate questions as to how much player power (led, in many ways, by Messi) was a factor in that decline, it is not because of Messi that they find themselves in this pickle. The president, the board, and the other suits that run the club are the culprits.

I have no sympathy for ultra-rich superclubs that fall on 'hard times' (i.e. going a whole season trophy-less, boo-hoo) due to their own arrogance, greed, and lack of foresight. A bunch of rich men crying over spilled milk.
 

circatee

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Merely my opinion, but, with Messi being 33, I believe he would struggle in the Premiership.
However, by year 2 or 3, he might then get used to it. Alas, it could be 'too late' by then...
 

Lord Blackadder

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Greek prosecutors have essentially offered to drop the assault charges against Maguire (but not the resisting arrest and attempted bribery charges) if he makes a formal apology.

What twaddle. An apology made under duress, even public one, is not an apology. Maguire will continue to do everything in his power to get out from under. I don't blame him for that - we all would in the same circumstances - but he doesn't appear to be sorry for anyone but himself.

Right now I'll bet he's thinking "why couldn't Messi have sent that fax five days earlier...."

Merely my opinion, but, with Messi being 33, I believe he would struggle in the Premiership.
However, by year 2 or 3, he might then get used to it. Alas, it could be 'too late' by then...

It depends how he is used and the squad around him. If he is being asked to carry the team, yes, he might struggle. But if he is surrounded by players willing and able to do the grunt work, and let him focus on unlocking defenses and scoring goals, he could be a 20+ goal per season player in any league for several seasons yet.

Messi has always been very fit and is not injury prone, so he could still have a very productive late career.
 

Silencio

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While I don't have a lot of faith in the integrity of the Greek justice system, Maguire's poor judgement is evidenced in numerous other ways. Why was he traveling abroad during a pandemic? Why was he partying in a public venue, when the temptation for drunken idiots to go in on a famous footballer are too tempting for some to ignore? He put himself in a bad situation, that's fully on him.

As much as a club captaincy is an overrated relic of simpler times, I'd like to see the armband given to Bruno Fernandes sooner than later.

As for Messi, I can't see him going anywhere but city. They have unlimited funds, they have Pep.
 

Lord Blackadder

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While I don't have a lot of faith in the integrity of the Greek justice system, Maguire's poor judgement is evidenced in numerous other ways. Why was he traveling abroad during a pandemic? Why was he partying in a public venue, when the temptation for drunken idiots to go in on a famous footballer are too tempting for some to ignore? He put himself in a bad situation, that's fully on him.

As much as a club captaincy is an overrated relic of simpler times, I'd like to see the armband given to Bruno Fernandes sooner than later.

From the Greek perspective, this is just another example of tourists behaving badly in their country, so I am sure there is some public pressure to stick it to the unruly Englishman and make an example of him, fairly or otherwise. On the other hand, scuffling with the police is always a profoundly stupid idea in any country (Maguire should thank his lucky stars he wasn't in the US when he started swinging at cops...).

The armband is overrated, to be sure, but it is still meaningful. When a player ceases to be an example to the rest of the squad, it's probably not a good idea to retain that player as captain. I suppose OGS's thinking here is that Maguire's stock was so high, and this incident seems so out of character, that maybe we can let this one slide. But, as you pointed out, there are other potential leaders in this squad, and it would probably be wiser to hand the armband off to another player for the time being.

As for Messi, I can't see him going anywhere but city. They have unlimited funds, they have Pep.

My instinct is to agree with you. They have the money, and Pep - and also a huge squad. If Messi went there he could be used in a way that would allow him to be a big threat without doing all the hard work himself. I'd love to see Liverpool play against a Messi-led City.

Still, from Messi's perspective this is a chance to cut ties with the past and try something totally new. It's possible that such an idea appeals to him, so I would not yet rule out a move elsewhere.
 
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JamesMike

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Maguire has been granted a full retrial in Greece thorough for he is considered 'innocent' until retrial because the conviction has been overturned.
 

Apple fanboy

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Greek prosecutors have essentially offered to drop the assault charges against Maguire (but not the resisting arrest and attempted bribery charges) if he makes a formal apology.

What twaddle. An apology made under duress, even public one, is not an apology. Maguire will continue to do everything in his power to get out from under. I don't blame him for that - we all would in the same circumstances - but he doesn't appear to be sorry for anyone but himself.

Right now I'll bet he's thinking "why couldn't Messi have sent that fax five days earlier...."



It depends how he is used and the squad around him. If he is being asked to carry the team, yes, he might struggle. But if he is surrounded by players willing and able to do the grunt work, and let him focus on unlocking defenses and scoring goals, he could be a 20+ goal per season player in any league for several seasons yet.

Messi has always been very fit and is not injury prone, so he could still have a very productive late career.
I think even if Messi had announced his retirement, the Maguire story would still be news worthy.
Yes if you have to be asked to apologise then clearly you don’t think you have done anything wrong.
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While I don't have a lot of faith in the integrity of the Greek justice system, Maguire's poor judgement is evidenced in numerous other ways. Why was he traveling abroad during a pandemic? Why was he partying in a public venue, when the temptation for drunken idiots to go in on a famous footballer are too tempting for some to ignore? He put himself in a bad situation, that's fully on him.

As much as a club captaincy is an overrated relic of simpler times, I'd like to see the armband given to Bruno Fernandes sooner than later.

As for Messi, I can't see him going anywhere but city. They have unlimited funds, they have Pep.
Messi will clearly be coming to West Ham!
 

Lord Blackadder

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Messi will clearly be coming to West Ham!

I'd love to see him do a crazy / unexpected move like that.

But, sadly, money talks. How many clubs (other than Real and Barca given those won't be destinations) can afford to pay Messi a million a week, or even half that?

Also, there is the possibility that Messi is playing this hand in order to get major concessions out of the club in order to stay. Unlikely, maybe, but given the politics of the Spanish super clubs anything is possible.

Maybe they can do a swap deal with Real Madrid for Bale. :p
 

pachyderm

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Jan 12, 2008
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He's going to Wednesday. Offer has been accepted I calmly lied to my friends at Macrumours...

They never flinched.

The congratulations poured in for over 12 hours until the realized ....
 
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HandsomeDanNZ

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He's going to Wednesday. Offer has been accepted I calmly lied to my friends at Macrumours...

They never flinched.

The congratulations poured in for over 12 hours until the realized ....
Can you imagine! Wednesday, Brentford, Macclesfield, or any other similar smaller club...on a free with a virtually zero wage, because he wants to fall in love with the game again.

Even better - he could go to the Highlands League and play for Fort William!

Ah, we can dream.
 
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Lord Blackadder

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Maybe Columbus Crew can put in a cheeky bid. Columbus' (well, and Boca Juniors') Argentinian club legend Guillermo Barros-Schelotto loved it in CBus - he can put in a good word for us with Messi.

I swear I'll buy Columbus Crew season tickets if he signs up.
 
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MacBH928

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May 17, 2008
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Barcelona have been mismanaged for years now. While there are legitimate questions as to how much player power (led, in many ways, by Messi) was a factor in that decline, it is not because of Messi that they find themselves in this pickle. The president, the board, and the other suits that run the club are the culprits.

I have no sympathy for ultra-rich superclubs that fall on 'hard times' (i.e. going a whole season trophy-less, boo-hoo) due to their own arrogance, greed, and lack of foresight. A bunch of rich men crying over spilled milk.

Maybe Barcelona has been mismanaged but isn't this management is the same management that brought in Messi, Ronaldinho, added 4 UCL trophies, and scored like 10 of the last 15 La Liga trophies? Not to mention their 2009 (IIRC) where they scored all six trophies a once in a lifetime record. It was also the management that had a very successful managers with the team like Pep Guardiola and Frank Rijkaard? Why somehow they became the bad management?

Either way I am happy their club is falling apart, their fans were so flamboyant and their claims of how Messi is way above all other football legends like Maradona and Pele...I want them to feel the pain of going trophy-less and hiding in shame of the club they decided to support in its prime...Historically, I believe, Barcelona was not a huge football club. AC Milan, Liverpool, and Real Madrid were much more in the spotlight.

As for Messi, I can't see him going anywhere but city. They have unlimited funds, they have Pep.

I am not sure why you say that, the place I see him going and is scaring me is PSG. Backed by the unlimited funds of the Qatary gov. who are willing to due anything to score the first ever(I think) UCL trophy, this year they lost the final 1-0...Messi could be the final added garnish to their recipe to make that final 2-1. Messi, Naymar, and Mbappe...I feel very sorry for any competitor. PSG will gain a lot more fans, and they will be selling shirts like crazy.

Lets not forget all this Messi and UCL win will beautifully complement Qatar hosting the World Cup in 2022.

I am not a fan of Messi or PSG, but this outcome is very possible, I wouldn't like it but if I was PSG president I would definitely do it. One question remains, does Messi respect the French league enough to end his career in it or would he like to play in a more prestigious league like the English or Italian one where he can have fun competing against Ronaldo.
 

HandsomeDanNZ

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Maybe Columbus Crew can put in a cheeky bid. Columbus' (well, and Boca Juniors') Argentinian club legend Guillermo Barros-Schelotto loved it in CBus - he can put in a good word for us with Messi.

I swear I'll buy Columbus Crew season tickets if he signs up.
Adelaide have officially offered their club up to the maestro.
There's a copy of the letter on Reddit.

It's cheeky and hilarious.
 

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Apple fanboy

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I do wonder about your physio team...everyone that goes there ends up crocked in some way.
Tell me about it! In fairness I think it’s the players we sign. Andy Carroll for example. Great player when he was fit. But that’s probably no more than 10 games a season. If he could play 40 games a season, he’d probably never left Liverpool.
Jack Wilsher is another one. He’d still be at Arsenal without the injuries.
But when you are a club like ours, the sort of players you can sign are injury prone good players, or older players (who by default will take longer to recover). The other option is younger players. But although we sign some, the top four clubs sign so many teenagers, it’s harder to sign them.
Sad truth is many of those kids will be released by those clubs and never make it.
But if they signed for clubs like ours they would get more of a chance.
 

Scepticalscribe

macrumors Ivy Bridge
Jul 29, 2008
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In a coffee shop.
Maguire has been granted a full retrial in Greece thorough for he is considered 'innocent' until retrial because the conviction has been overturned.

His conviction has not been "overturned". He is not "innocent"; he has been convicted, and that conviction is being appealed.

While Manchester United may have said - quite disingenuously, in my opinion, in an attempt to influence or court public opinion, and frame how the "narrative" is reported - that the appeal "nullifies" the conviction - actually, in law, it doesn't, it merely suspends the conviction taking effect, which is not the same thing.

He has appealed the conviction, which therefore, cannot take effect until the appeal has been decided.

However, in law, the original conviction cannot take effect until the legal appeal process has been exhausted, which will mean that the appeal will be either upheld (in which case the conviction would be quashed), or rejected, (in which case the conviction will stand) or otherwise amended, - perhaps with a lesser penalty imposed.
 
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Lord Blackadder

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EDIT: Paul Pogba has tested positive for COVID-19. Aaron Wan-Bissaka is in quarantine after a vacation to Dubai. More headaches for OGS and the Man Utd suits.

Players need to think long and hard before traveling on holiday. If I were a manger I would discourage it.

Maybe Barcelona has been mismanaged but isn't this management is the same management that brought in Messi, Ronaldinho, added 4 UCL trophies, and scored like 10 of the last 15 La Liga trophies? Not to mention their 2009 (IIRC) where they scored all six trophies a once in a lifetime record. It was also the management that had a very successful managers with the team like Pep Guardiola and Frank Rijkaard? Why somehow they became the bad management?

Either way I am happy their club is falling apart, their fans were so flamboyant and their claims of how Messi is way above all other football legends like Maradona and Pele...I want them to feel the pain of going trophy-less and hiding in shame of the club they decided to support in its prime...Historically, I believe, Barcelona was not a huge football club. AC Milan, Liverpool, and Real Madrid were much more in the spotlight.

I'd suggest reading some of Sid Lowe's excellent journalism on Barca (And Spanish football in general) over the years. Both Real and Barca are financially and politically supercharged environments. Real Madrid are located in Spain's capital and were the team favored by the Franco dictatorship and Madrid elites for decades, so their dominance is not really due to shrewd management so much as economic and political privilege. Likewise Barca, while not favored by the national elite, became the symbol of Catalan resistance to Franco for many years and the region remains very independently-minded.

In short, Spanish football is not just sporting hysteria - it's Spanish politics in a nutshell in many ways. Arguing whether Messi is better than Ronaldo is a coded argument for whether your loyalties lie primarily with Spain or Catalonia. Spain is a very disunited country right now, and Messi's transfer request is politically seismic.

With all that being said, Both Real and Barca have been run in a very short-sighted way for many years. Blaming the current president for all this is equally short-sighted. Most of the people in Spain who are pointing the Big Finger of Blame -including the fans - should probably also be pointing at themselves. There is plenty of blame to spread around.

But the club is not falling apart. Sure, this is a low point and it could be years before they are at the same high level again. But they are still, and will remain, one of the richest and most-watched clubs on the planet. For the richest clubs, it really doesn't matter how badly they are run. They remain huge, rich, and stacked with talent. They are ensconced in power and privilege. Players want to play for them. Their academies are large. The deck is stacked hugely in their favor. There's nothing remotely fair about it.

Symbolically, Messi departing is a big moment, but from a sporting standpoint it's not that big of a deal. For example -Crispy Ronaldo was brought to Juventus for one purpose - to win the Champions League. He kept banging in the goals but you will notice that the Champions League trophy was engraved "Bayern Munchen" this year, not "Juventus".
 
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Lord Blackadder

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Three tidbits from the last couple days that have gotten a bit lost among the Maguire / Messi headlines:

  • MLS have postponed a number of matches as American professional athletes begin boycotting games in growing numbers in reaction to the growing civil unrest over police violence against people of color.
  • Celtic, on the verge of ten domestic titles in a row, got dumped out of the Champions League - in their own house - by Hungarian no-hopers Ferencvaros. But Old Firm fans still get angry when people speak disparagingly of the state of Scottish football....
  • Gareth Barry, 97, has finally retired after a record 653 professional appearances*.
Sorry to see Barry go - his sort of reliability is just the thing we need in 2020...

*(OK, OK, I was kidding, he's 39).
 
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