The 2021 Apple TV 4K should've had an A12X Bionic instead.

[Alexis Noel]

This new Apple TV 4K should have used an A12X Bionic and not the A12, as the A12X Bionic is the true successor to the A10X Fusion (see 2017 iPad Pro and 2018 iPad Pro). The A12 is barely toe to toe with the A10X, synthetic benchmarks aside. A12, first seen on the iPhone XS and XS Max pale in comparison to the iPad Pro with the A12X and even the iPad Pro with A10X. This is repeated again with the 3rd Gen iPad Air from 2019. It borrows several things form the 10.5" iPad Pro, such as the shell, smart connector, Smart Keyboard, but misses out in performance even with a newer SoC. A 2018 iPad Pro is the true successor to the 2017 iPad Pro, not the 2019 iPad Air. Likewise, the successor to the 2017 Apple TV 4K with an A10X should've been an Apple TV 4K with an A12X.

Remote aside, you get the same shell, but you do get AX wifi among some other gimmicks, however I'm not 100% sold on whether performance would be significantly better, especially as they're advertising Apple Arcade which at times struggled in the the previous Gen and history has shown the A12 to not be that significant outside of the iPhone XS.

[This is from my experience as someone who has the 2017 iPad Pro, 2x 2018 iPad Pro, 2019 iPad Air, 2018 iPhone XS Max, for comparison. A10X outperformed the A12 in the iPad Air when it came to scrubbing 4k H.265/HEVC video as well as exporting and playback on LumaFusion. Likewise, the A12X smoked the A10X with the same 4k H.265/HEVC video. Games such as CoD mobile also performed better on both iPad Pros vs the iPad Air and iPhone XS Max.] Synthetic benchmarks like Geekbench show mild improvements in terms of the A12 over the A10X, and significant improvements form the A12X over both, however that's just specs on paper.

To me, it doesn't seem very promising that the new Apple TV will prove to be a substantial improvement over it's predecessor.

 

[Juicy Box]

To me, it doesn't seem very promising that the new Apple TV will prove to be a substantial improvement over it's predecessor.

I agree.

It would be different is the new ATV had a price decrease, but it is basically the same thing with the same performance at the same price.

The A12 is barely toe to toe with the A10X, synthetic benchmarks aside.

While most bench marks have the A12 a little ahead the A10, for real world GPU performance, the A10X actually outperforms the A12.

Gaming on the ATV4k1 might end up being better than the new one.


The crazy part is that there was so many people waiting for a new ATV to come out, many will be just happy that Apple released a new one, not caring that the chip performance, storage, and price is the not any better than it was before.

 

[2010mini]

The Apple TV and the other products you mentioned are quite different. The Apple TV doesn’t require including touch interface performance for example. How the iPad and iPhone are used, most likely benefit from a better processor. The Apple TV is just a streamer and casual gaming device.

 

[Alexis Noel]

The Apple TV and the other products you mentioned are quite different. The Apple TV doesn’t require including touch interface performance for example. How the iPad and iPhone are used, most likely benefit from a better processor. The Apple TV is just a streamer and casual gaming device.

I get what you’re saying, but the Apple TV 4K 2017 struggled with a few games. (Trying to remember a few since it’s been a while)
I’m hoping I’m wrong and the mild performance increase, that seems rather insignificant, makes the gaming aspect of the Apple TV marginally better. I just think the A12X would’ve been a more appropriate SoC, especially to future-proof for a couple of years, seeing as how long it took to get a new Apple TV 4K.

 

[Alexis Noel]

Gaming on the ATV4k1 might end up being better than the new one.

I hope so.

The crazy part is that there was so many people waiting for a new ATV to come out, many will be just happy that Apple released a new one, not caring that the chip performance, storage, and price is the not any better than it was before.

Yeah. I have no doubt that it’ll have strong sales. I just kinda hoped for a little more. 😅

 

[Bluetoot-]

I was going to put money down for an Apple TV if it was substantive enough. However, I’m going to hold our and hope this is due to some chip shortage issue or some other such happening.

I know the Apple console is a meme but come. on.

 

[Juicy Box]

I just think the A12X would’ve been a more appropriate SoC

At least a A12X, the A12 is a joke of an upgrade.

Unless Apple decides to release a gaming-centric ATV, I think Apple choosing the A12 is just them not caring about the gaming potential of the ATV.

This isn't the first time there was ATV-gaming rumors that didn't play out. Back in 2014, all the "next ATV" rumors claimed Apple was working on a gaming streaming box capable of Xbox 360 quality graphics, which would have required at least an A8X at the time, if not the A9X, but that ended up falling flat with the A8, Siri Remote requirement, and 200MB static storage limit on apps. Oh yeah, the silly CrossyRoads demo to show off the gaming performance on the ATV4.

Apple has since back peddled the Siri Remote requirement and increased the static storage size to 4GB, but still, it showed Apple's lack of interest of getting into the gaming market.

The A10X was a great step forward, but after almost 4 years, and now only the A12 chip, Apple has done it again, but this time, I didn't get my hopes up.

Gaming on the ATV4k1 might end up being better than the new one.

I hope so.

Why is that?

but the Apple TV 4K 2017 struggled with a few games. (Trying to remember a few since it’s been a while)

I only know of one that people talk about, Oceanhorn 2. I played the whole game, and loved it, but while playing, some of the cutscenes were a little choppy. It was strange, like if it was playing at 30FPS, it would play fine for a few seconds and then get stuck on a few frames then play fine, rinse and repeat.

The actual gameplay was fine though, even with many NPCs, I never experienced any slowdown on the A10X of the ATV4K.

The Apple TV is just a streamer and casual gaming device.

That it is, and will continue to be so. An overpowered, and overpriced streaming box with some casual gaming capabilities.

The same could also be said for the A10X ATV as well, as the A10X is still more powerful than any competitors' streamer currently on the market.

 

[Donar]

Underwhelming upgrade, would have been a nice upgrade (imo) if they replaced the old Apple TV HD (A8) with an A12 based Apple TV HD, and the old Apple TV4K (A10X) with a A12X based Apple TV 4K.

A12 Metal Score 5364 (New TV 4K)
A10X Metal Score 6932 (Old TV 4K)
A12X Metal Score 11835 (2018 iPad Pro)

I’m subscribed to Arcade, so i would appreciate better Metal scores. After transitioning iPad Pro to M1 they should have some spare supply of A12X/A12Z.

Maybe Apple wants to sell us a MacMini with „Apple TV mode“ instead of an actual Apple TV? 😆

I only know of one that people talk about, Oceanhorn 2. I played the whole game, and loved it, but while playing, some of the cutscenes were a little choppy. It was strange, like if it was playing at 30FPS, it would play fine for a few seconds and then get stuck on a few frames then play fine, rinse and repeat.

I had to set the ATV 4K from 4K to 1080p to stop stuttering in game, i also think i still had objects „pop in“ after that, better effects on iPad Pro also (But maybe due to smaller screen?)

 

[Juicy Box]

I had to set the ATV 4K from 4K to 1080p to stop stuttering in game, i also think i still had objects „pop in“ after that, better effects on iPad Pro also (But maybe due to smaller screen?)

Was this with Oceanhorn 2? Or another game?

 

[Donar]

Was this with Oceanhorn 2? Or another game?

Yes, it was with Oceanhorn 2. I also had some „hickups“ playing Beyond a Steel Sky (i think only during Cutscenes).

 

[Juicy Box]

I’m subscribed to Arcade, so i would appreciate better Metal scores.

It is amazing how many articles, YouTube videos, and comments in the MR forum are calling the A12 a performance upgrade. At best, I would consider it on par with the A10X.

Well, Apple claims it provides a "significant boost in graphic performance", so maybe it is some variant of the A12 or takes advantage of having a fan and not limited to the power of a battery. Or maybe it is just bull.....

Yes, it was with Oceanhorn 2.

When talking about the stuttering, was this during only the cutscenes or during actual gameplay? I only experienced this during the cutscenes, and while it was annoying, it definitely didn't ruin the game or was worth lowering the resolution.

Also, was it a long while ago? Or somewhat recent? I know there was an update that increased the graphic quality a while back, and maybe there was bugs related to that.

The only reason why I bring it up is because Oceanhorn 2 has been the only game that I have seen performance related issues on, and even then it was only on the cut scenes (at least for me), and I always wondered if it was a problem with the game and not a limitation of the A10X.

Like I already said, more me the actual gameplay of Oceanhorn 2 in full rez was flawless when it came to the HW performance.

 

[Marshall73]

It is amazing how many articles, YouTube videos, and comments in the MR forum are calling the A12 a performance upgrade. At best it I would consider it on par with the A10.

Well, Apple claims it provides a "significant boost in graphic performance", so maybe it is some variant of the A12 or takes advantage of having a fan and not limited to the power of a battery. Or maybe it is just bull.....


When talking about the stuttering, was this during only the cutscenes or during actual gameplay? I only experienced this during the cutscenes, and while it was annoying, it definitely didn't ruin the game or was worth lowering the resolution.

Also, was it a long while ago? Or somewhat recent? I know there was an update that increased the graphic quality a while back, and maybe there was bugs related to that.

The only reason why I bring it up is because Oceanhorn 2 has been the only game that I have seen performance related issues on, and even then it was only on the cut scenes (at least for me), and I always wondered if it was a problem with the game and not a limitation of the A10X.

Like I already said, more me the actual gameplay of Oceanhorn 2 in full rez was flawless when it came to the HW performance.

Has there been any benchmarks of an A12 with active cooling? The Apple TV has active cooling, perhaps Apple are running it at a higher frequency than in iPhones?

 

[Juicy Box]

Has there been any benchmarks of an A12 with active cooling? The Apple TV has active cooling, perhaps Apple are running it at a higher frequency than in iPhones?

You could be right about that.....

Also I mentioned this here:

so maybe it is some variant of the A12 or takes advantage of having a fan and not limited to the power of a battery.

Of course, it could all be bull as well....

AFAIK, the A10X in the ATV4K doesn't out perform the A10X in the iPad Pro.

 

[Donar]

Well, Apple claims it provides a "significant boost in graphic performance", so maybe it is some variant of the A12 or takes advantage of having a fan and not limited to the power of a battery. Or maybe it is just bull.....

Seen it, maybe a significant boost over The Apple TV HD? Or could be, as you said, higher clock rate or a variant of the A12 also (Did not consider this until now). We probably have to wait.

When talking about the stuttering, was this during only the cutscenes or during actual gameplay? I only experienced this during the cutscenes, and while it was annoying, it definitely didn't ruin the game or was worth lowering the resolution.

Also, was it a long while ago? Or somewhat recent? I know there was an update that increased the graphic quality a while back, and maybe there was bugs related to that.

Had the stuttering during actual gameplay. Starting my „gaming career“ on the AMIGA, i actually can live with frame skips/stuttering. 😁 I have not played the „Golden Edition“ which should have performance upgrades. Cheers.

 

[acorntoy]

Has there been any benchmarks of an A12 with active cooling? The Apple TV has active cooling, perhaps Apple are running it at a higher frequency than in iPhones?

Edit: looking at tech specs it’s still active cooling.

 

[Bodhitree]

They should have just gone the whole hog and put an M1 into the Apple TV. That, and improved storage, would have been enough to transform it from a streaming device into a cheap and portable games console. Look at Nintendo to see if those kind of boxes can be successful.

However I’m due an upgrade for my streaming box, my old third gen Apple TV lost YouTube support a while back, and I have a number of 4K HDR movies purchased on itunes. So I may end up buying regardless of it being a weak upgrade. Unfortunately I may also have to update the TV, where I am currently using a HD Samsung panel from 2013.

It bothers me to put still functioning devices out to pasture. Its not good for the environment, giving in to the impulse to buy, and so contributing to the churn of tech devices out there. And it’s debateable whether my eyes can detect the difference in resolution between 1080p and 4K on a 48” TV at four meters, which is how far my couch is from the tv. So I could hold on to the whole ensemble and wait for another three years for an upgrade.

 

[Donar]

They should have just gone the whole hog and put an M1 into the Apple TV. That, and improved storage, would have been enough to transform it from a streaming device into a cheap and portable games console.

I also opt for improved storage options. I‘m on a 32GB Apple TV 4K though*. A M1 Apple TV probably would cost as much as a base (2020 M1) Mac mini. I think i may be too much of a cheapskate for a M1 AppleTV - but „Geeklust“ can get the better of me, so who knows.

I think it does not strategically make sense for Apple to put their newest M1 Chip on 5nm into a (niche) product like the Apple TV (and that during a chip shortage), that’s why i mentioned the A12X/Z (older 7nm process) there could be some spare capacity after the iPad Pro got the M1. Price wise i would find this more interesting too.

*They are the only ones i have ever seen in the german „Apple Refurbished Store“ where i bought mine. I did not buy new, because i thought a new one was about 6 Months away, but i needed one „now“.

 

[x-evil-x]

I’m guessing they are over clocking these chips to perform better than in iPhones. Time will tell. I doubt they would release a updated version that’s slower than the previous.

 

[EPO75]

Most likely a M1 version is in the works and will come later as rumours say they want to release it when more big games are available.
i do agree they could at least released it with a A13, that can't be much more expensive. Ah well I'll sit this one out and keep my current ATV4K.

 

[addictive]

I've been waiting for Apple to release a new Apple TV for a long time because I refuse to buy a product which is four years old without a price drop. While the new Apple TV isn't much of an upgrade (and downgrade on graphics) at least it's CPU is better than the 2017 release. I knew I wanted a different remote and I'll only use this Apple TV as a streaming box and the HDMI 2.1 is also a bonus. So I'm pleased to have waited.

This product seems like it was ready to be released a year ago (remember the project Neptune tweet?) so I wonder what delayed it? The pandemic and chip shortages? The new remote? Possibly?

Apple didn't address gaming or improving Apple Arcade but if this is in their future then I imagine they'll at the minimum put a M1 or M2 when they finally take gaming a little more seriously. If the new iPad can get the M1 then no reason why future Apple gaming machines/Apple TV won't have a M1 or better too.

Will the iPhone still get A15 etc.. chips while all other Apple products move to M1 or later? Or will the iPhone receive the M chips too?

 

[Bodhitree]

A15 will have more powerful cores, and so there will be an uplift in performance, but all the things that are on M1 aren’t needed, like Thunderbolt and large amounts of ram. So it seems likely that the A series will continue to power iPhones, iPods and so on, while the M series will power Macintoshes, iPad Pro’s, etc.

 

[Otamin]

I wonder if the rumour regarding a new Apple TV with a larger gaming focus was rubbish, or if we'll see it at some point later on this year/next?

 

[gnomeisland]

I’m also disappointed with the A12 downgrade (refuse to call it otherwise until proved wrong). The added U1 chip and better remote are interesting but not enough personally. I‘ve been chomping at the bit to upgrade and somehow Apple announced something uncompelling enough to make me consider keeping my current box.

Here’s one thought though: What if this is a replay of the AppleTV HD vs 4K? AFAIK, the AppleTV HD was just the AppleTV when it was announced. It only got the 4K moniker when the higher model was released. Perhaps Apple is just milking the market/justifying the high price until an A15 box is released later? Since Apple seems to love confusing branding, I’m guessing the better/faster box will be called Apple Arcade. 🤣

 

[Baron Thompson]

Hoping for an updated Apple TV with sound bar built in and a focus on gaming, but this new one will do to replace my current Apple TV HD from years ago. Especially as I have a brand new Sony tv.

Do I need to replace my HDMI cable to take advantage of 4K and use HDMI 2.1? How do know if it’s up to par?

 

[addictive]

I’m also disappointed with the A12 downgrade (refuse to call it otherwise until proved wrong). The added U1 chip and better remote are interesting but not enough personally. I‘ve been chomping at the bit to upgrade and somehow Apple announced something uncompelling enough to make me consider keeping my current box.

Here’s one thought though: What if this is a replay of the AppleTV HD vs 4K? AFAIK, the AppleTV HD was just the AppleTV when it was announced. It only got the 4K moniker when the higher model was released. Perhaps Apple is just milking the market/justifying the high price until an A15 box is released later? Since Apple seems to love confusing branding, I’m guessing the better/faster box will be called Apple Arcade. 🤣

This iteration is just a streaming device and it seems like it's been ready for an entire year. This isn't a new product the only things Apple has changed it to swap out HDMI 2.0 for HDMI 2.1 and put in the A12 for the A10X. They also finally reacted to the terrible remote they've been selling. For a company with Apple's resources they sure do take a long time to turn around. I guess that's the problem when you're a SuperTanker.

People always said the 4K product from 2017 was overkill for a streaming device so Apple has just updated a four year old machine which will future proof these new models for another five years or so.

I'm of the belief that Apple will release a console or something which can play all types of games and it will be powered by a M1 or M2. It likely will be called Apple Arcade to help differentiate from Apple's TV plans.

I think TVOS15 is going to have some cool surprises come WWDC. I'm certain they're going to do something to utilise the HomePod Mini to further drive sales.