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The 2023-2024 Football Thread
- Thread starter Scepticalscribe
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Cancer is a cruel disease.
I hope his remaining time is as good for him as it can be.
I hope his remaining time is as good for him as it can be.
I think that I would have been able to take a greater degree of pleasure from Manchester City's performance if they hadn't been so utterly and crushingly dominant over the past few years.
A team that makes a habit of winning almost everything all of the time - year after year - soon loses its attraction for anyone who is not a fanatical fan, or supporter of the team.
I don't deny the excellence of their performance (and their players, and manager), but, nowadays, - while I cheered their first premier League trophy in the modern era - I do regret each and every victory of theirs.
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Watched the highlights last night. KDB looks like he hasn’t lost any of his skill in his absence.
Newcastle did give it a go at least.
Newcastle did give it a go at least.
WEDNESDAY lost 4 nil.
I still think we'll stay up. The Saints are a top 6 team so there is a bit of a talent gap.
I still think we'll stay up. The Saints are a top 6 team so there is a bit of a talent gap.
Everton and Forrest have been reported for financial irregularities. Could be fines or points deduction.
A bit late to the party (been away on summer holidays) but we all know Saints are MASSIVE.WEDNESDAY lost 4 nil.
I still think we'll stay up. The Saints are a top 6 team so there is a bit of a talent gap.
I look forward to just scraping out of the top two and then getting to a playoff final and not winning.
I truly think the worst thing for Saints right now would be to bounce straight back to the Prem. Whilst we may be crushing it in the Championship, we've all seen what that amounts to, when looking at Burnley's fortunes this year.
Roma has sacked Jose Mourinho after a run of one win in 5 games (3 losses) to me is a disgrace. Every manager has a bad run of form but to sack a manager due to one win, one draw and 3 losses is just an outright disgrace. How can managers perform with such pressure hanging over their heads??, they can't. If the same condition for sacking Mourinho was applied to the English Premiership, over 80% of the premier league managers would be sacked.
I do think José Mourinho is outdated as a top manager. He was at some time the best and most innovative manager in Europe (therefore the World) and some of his ideas are today standard practice while other new methods have been introduced by others (I particularly like Klopp's high intensity despite Guardiola's undoubtful virtuosity)
But Roma is being delusional, they aren't a top club, they aren't in a top league and recently played both AC MIlan and Juventus.
For Mourinho the path is clear, cash in some more you know where.
I'm happy we have a new national team manager which recently delivered a perfect qualification streak. I hope he comes up with a convincing Euro 2024 performance so that some skeletons don't leave the closet.
But Roma is being delusional, they aren't a top club, they aren't in a top league and recently played both AC MIlan and Juventus.
For Mourinho the path is clear, cash in some more you know where.
I'm happy we have a new national team manager which recently delivered a perfect qualification streak. I hope he comes up with a convincing Euro 2024 performance so that some skeletons don't leave the closet.
More from Everton?
Hm.
Will also be most interested to see how the case against Manchester City progresses.
To my mind, the issue - or mistake - lay in appointing Mourinho as manager in the first place.
I wouldn't touch him with the proverbial barge-pole; his corrosive negativity is toxic.
Agree completely with @timber.
In terms of tactics, Mourinho is very much outdated, and, in terms of personality, he is extraordinarily toxic; I cannot think of any position he has held that hasn't ended badly, and with considerable mutual ill-feeling.
One of the Portuguese sports newspapers just posted a fun article remembering and counting Mourinho's severance payments.
93 million euros which today is more or less 80 million pounds.
93 million euros which today is more or less 80 million pounds.
Mourinho is a victim of his own success. His first season with Roma they win the inaugural European Conference League and in his 2nd season with Roma gets them to the final of the UEFA cup where they get beaten by Sevilla. They are currently 9th in the league, 4 points off a European place (5th league position). Not doing that bad in my opinion, a couple of wins and they are in a European place but obviously the Roma bosses feel that is not good enough and sack the only manager they had that got them European success. Life can be very cruel for a football manager.
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Agreed.
Promotion - bouncing straight back to the Premier League - would be counterproductive for the Saints, as it would be possibly too soon, and they would run the risk of an almost immediate subsequent relegation.
They need time to develop, and to grow together, and the scenario that you have suggested strikes me as the best possible route to future success, in that they would be able to give themselves another year before being ready to challenge for a promotion spot.
Look at Mourinho's track record as a manager.
Almost invariably, there has been some sort of success in the first season, perhaps some also in the second, and a bitter departure in the second or third season where every bridge in sight has been burned to the ground.
Moreover, he rarely leaves teams in a better position on his departure, than they were on his arrival, and nor does he nurture or develop young players.
Instead, he cultivates a culture of corrosive negativity, which then takes root.
And tactically, he has been over-taken by others.
That is very funny, a classic illustration of the concept of failing upwards.
Severance payments are a necessity for managers because they get fired so often. I don’t begrudge them that. And often the big manager salaries and payments are a tax clubs pay to hire managers to clean up the mess clubs are in.
Managers know they are often going to be asked to get immediate results with a suboptimal squad under dysfunctional owners who may abandon them at any moment.
So in that situation I’d demand a lot of money too. Sounds like a terrible job!
Mourinho has definitely cashed in on his legacy though, picking up a series of highly lucrative management gigs long after he peaked as a manager.
Playing devil's advocate one could argue that he didn't really fail all those times and those that offered those long term contracts resulting in those payments clearly had much more money than sense.
The jobs he has been getting are also dwindling. He stagnated after Real Madrid and has been on a downwards trend since 2nd Chelsea. I will be surprised if any reasonably competitive and relevant European club offers him a contract.
No argument, there.
I have posted here that I think the custom of making a sacrificial offering of a manager by firing them when the club is underperforming is grossly unfair, not when, very often, the problems are too deeply embedded and deeply rooted for a manager to be able to address, let alone solve.
Agreed.
Indeed.
As all too often appears to be the case, agreed.
Agreed.
My issue is with Mourinho, rather than with severance payments to managers in general.
Any club that chooses to hire him, or appoint him, knows that it will end in tears, copious quantities of tears, and that the departure will be prolonged and embittered and will occur in a profoundly negative and toxic atmosphere.
Mourinho is still a class act in my book because he took one of the most dysfunctional teams in the premiership, Man United and turned them into trophy winners in his first season and almost winners in his second season. He achieved more in his stint at United than any other manager has since Ferguson retired. His first season at Roma and he wins them their first European trophy in their club history.
Yes he starts to wain after the second season but if any club wants to have instant success then Mourinho is your man. Wanting quick success is a club problem not a Mourinho problem. He knows what is required and tries to get what he wants and when he does get the players he wants, he wins, the facts speak for themselves.
Yes he starts to wain after the second season but if any club wants to have instant success then Mourinho is your man. Wanting quick success is a club problem not a Mourinho problem. He knows what is required and tries to get what he wants and when he does get the players he wants, he wins, the facts speak for themselves.
In the beginning (and I must say I was a huge fan at the time) he hadn't much money to spend and worked with that B squad guy that nobody noticed before, that other guy hired from second rate teams nobody knew and those already there. He won a UEFA Cup and a CL at FC Porto like that (excluding that MU match when Porto was lucky).
And he played quite entertaining football, nothing like let's say current Guardiola and its never ending passing but still very offensive football.
His first Chelsea job when he was given boatloads of cash to spend and perhaps the time at Inter when he was clearly a CL underdog (and won parking a double decker) seem to me that broke him as a versatile and evolving manager.
And he played quite entertaining football, nothing like let's say current Guardiola and its never ending passing but still very offensive football.
His first Chelsea job when he was given boatloads of cash to spend and perhaps the time at Inter when he was clearly a CL underdog (and won parking a double decker) seem to me that broke him as a versatile and evolving manager.