The 4 Gb RAM thing with G5s

[MacsRgr8]

I always look into /var/vm/, and count the swapfiles to find out if I need more RAM.
If, after regular use, there are two swapfiles (swapfile0, and swapfile1), then the Mac could use more RAM.
swapfile0 is always present, but a 2nd (or 3rd) swapfile is only created when your Mac is using diskspace for RAM. If it only appears occasionally (after playing some heavy games orso), I wouldn't bother, but if multiple swapfiles are created after normal use, then I would recommend adding extra RAM.

 

[bearbo]

4GB of ram is currently the sweet spot with OS X. Because of the way OS X handles virtual vs. physical ram, there is a diminishing returns with more than 4GB of ram. Even with lots of ram over 4GB, OS X keeps using more and more virtual ram rather than actual physical ram- getting worse and worse. Lots of Logic users have noticed this. Hopefully this will be fixed with 10.5.

wouldn't that be that Logic cant do with more RAM (altho i dont see why), not OS X can't do with more ram?
i dont know, someone must know about this... but it just doesn't make sense for OS X to throttle at 4GB

Still better than any windows machine could possibly dream of doing.

what the hell does this have anything to do with a machine of any hardware configuration running Windows?

 

[scottlinux]

wouldn't that be that Logic cant do with more RAM (altho i dont see why), not OS X can't do with more ram?
i dont know, someone must know about this... but it just doesn't make sense for OS X to throttle at 4GB

what the hell does this have anything to do with a machine of any hardware configuration running Windows?

No- Logic can only handle up to 3GB of ram internally. Users using lots of VST and AU plugins that load memory-hungry samples have noticed the diminishing returns with OS X with more than 4Gb of ram. There is a 4GB issue with OS X. People who go from a 4GB system to a 5, 6, or 8+ GB system have noticed this.

It is somewhat unofficially documented all over this forum:

http://www.vsl.co.at/forum/index.php

as well as in the audio community in general.


If you are a windows user today, you are limited to 3GB max, with the 3GB switch. So OS X currently handles memory better than windows, but when everyone (windows, OS X, Linux, etc.) all goes to FULL 64 bit, the memory limitations will be long forgotten.

This is why audio people prefer macs. Because of the better handling of memory, an OS X machine can equal twice the computer of a PC. Plugins and such in a DAW take lots of memory.

This issue is not just restricted to audio users, FWIW:

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/261046/

so CS3beta is a little slower than CS2 on my quadG5, and overall no significant difference between MacPro and G5 (expecially at the same clock speed, see previous posts). Waiting for Leopard and its 16bit (will CS3final address more of my 16Gb of RAM ?!!), this CS3beta is not really interesting for the time being at least in terms of speed as far as PPCs are concerned.

 

[BuzWeaver]

I'm an art director. I use it for photography and graphics, some video editing. It gets pushed hard, trust me. As for RAM not improving performance of PPCs, simply not true. I noticed a huge difference between 1 Gig and 3.5. I've just heard in several places that 4 is the magic number for G5s and was wondering what others' experiences have been.

Just depends on your particular needs. I sell systems to Video/Sound/Graphic Editing companies often and they typically want at least 4GB. I've sold two in the last two weeks with 16GB.

 

[leekohler]

Thanks for all the replies. They've been interesting and helpful.

 

[disconap]

Google "MenuMeters". I do graphic design and audio work, and I use MM to monitor RAM and processor usage on my G5; I very, very rarely hit my ceiling. In fact, working in PSD with an image that was around 700mb yesterday, I was only using 1750mb of my 2.5gb of RAM, and that included system, the open file in Illustrator, and mail/firefox/quicktime open.

In my experience with suping up my G4, the addition of a scratch RAID makes a much larger difference than the addition of RAM past the 1.5gb level (for the G5, i'd extend that to 2.0). I'll let you know if that's true with the G5 as well, as my PCI SATA set-up arrives on Friday so I can finally set my scratch disks and RAID up like they were in my last machine...

 

[MaaseyRacer]

I had a Dual Processor PowerMac G5, with 2GB of RAM. The difference between that and when I went to 4GB was like upgrading from my 1.8GHz DP to the 2.3GHz DP. Well worth it. The PPCs espcially the G5s love more memory. 4GB was the perfect amount for InDesign, Photoshop, and Final Cut when I had that machine. 6GB was not that big of a differnece, and 8GB was noticable, but 4GB was the best bang for the buck.

 

[eXan]

The PPCs espcially the G5s love more memory.

Really? I thought intels love more memory, especially that Xeon in Mac Pro

4GB was the perfect amount for InDesign, Photoshop, and Final Cut when I had that machine. 6GB was not that big of a differnece, and 8GB was noticable, but 4GB was the best bang for the buck.

How can you even live now, going from 8 GB to 2 GB RAM?!

 

[southbark]

Just be glad you do not have a windows pc you could put 16gbs and it would still only use 3gbs of the ram the other13gbs wouldnot even show up

 

[eXan]

Just be glad you do not have a windows pc you could put 16gbs and it would still only use 3gbs of the ram the other13gbs wouldnot even show up

Even with Windows 64 on a 64-bit processor? I doubt it

 

[bearbo]

wouldn't that be that Logic cant do with more RAM (altho i dont see why), not OS X can't do with more ram?
i dont know, someone must know about this... but it just doesn't make sense for OS X to throttle at 4GB

what the hell does this have anything to do with a machine of any hardware configuration running Windows?

No- Logic can only handle up to 3GB of ram internally.

No, but you said almost the samething as I did?

i think you are having logical problem :S

If you are a windows user today, you are limited to 3GB max, with the 3GB switch.

when was the last time you've used a windows based computer? if it's any where in the near past, you should've know that windows can support more than 3GB of ram just fine. i dont have data showing the efficiency comparison between windows and os x, but i know windows (for instance, XP 64bit) can do with more than 3GB of ram. saying "windows user today, you are limited to 3GB max" is ridiculous.

 

[kenzbud]

for anyone wondering if they need more ram.

Activity monitor, under memory look at the page in/outs

If you have a lot of page outs (the number after / ) then yes memory will help

If you have /0 page outs then NO you dont need more memory as you are not using all the memory you have.

Simple to check and a far better indicator than anyone here can tell if you need more memory as everyones usuage is different.

I have 3GB in my MacPro and so far havent had a page out even though I'm using photoshop, entourage, painter IX.5 (all not universal), but I'm sure others will be using far more memory than me.

I have a number of 93,739 for page outs. Besides the obvious fact that I do need more ram what does that number represent??

 

[vohdoun]

I have a number of 93,739 for page outs. Besides the obvious fact that I do need more ram what does that number represent??

When the Ram is filled up it starts using virtual memory and hard drive swapping if I remember correctly which is slower performance.

http://guides.macrumors.com/Talk:Enhancing_Performance_Of_Mac_OS_X

Or is it...

 

[eXan]

I have a number of 93,739 for page outs. Besides the obvious fact that I do need more ram what does that number represent??

94000 is not that bad. I usually have 200000+ page-outs after my Aperture sessions

 

[CanadaRAM]

I know that the discussion is about PMG5 and I didnt say anything about iMac G5.

You say that I can not, for example, install 3 1GB sticks in a PMG5? Does it has to be 2 1GB's and 2 512 MBs?

Yes, that is exactly it. You CANNOT install single sticks or odd numbers of sticks. They MUST be pairs -- 2 x 1, 2 x 512 etc. It has always been thus - it is mandatory in the PowerMac G5 architecture.
Which is why I was trying to tell you (again), comparing pairs versus singles in a PM G5 is a non-functional argument.

Since you were insisting (repeatedly) otherwise, I thought you may have been mistakenly referring to iMac G5s which do not use a Dual Channel architecture and where there is a theoretical performance difference.

Where in reality, the reason was that you don't know the first fundamental thing about PowerMac G5 RAM. Which begs the question why you thought posting quasi-authoritative information was a good idea in the first place...

Even with Windows 64 on a 64-bit processor? I doubt it

"A Windows PC" - I think with a 32-bit majority of roughly 99.999% in the non-server Windows world, that southbark can be allowed that assumption.

 

[eXan]

Yes, that is exactly it. You CANNOT install single sticks or odd numbers of sticks. They MUST be pairs -- 2 x 1, 2 x 512 etc. It has always been thus - it is mandatory in the PowerMac G5 architecture.
Which is why I was trying to tell you (again), comparing pairs versus singles in a PM G5 is a non-functional argument.

Since you were insisting (repeatedly) otherwise, I thought you may have been mistakenly referring to iMac G5s which do not use a Dual Channel architecture and where there is a theoretical performance difference.

Where in reality, the reason was that you don't know the first fundamental thing about PowerMac G5 RAM. Which begs the question why you thought posting quasi-authoritative information was a good idea in the first place...

Hey, hey! No need to get mad!

I was wrong, but I never owned a PowerMac G5!

Still, it seems strange that PM will only accept paired RAM. Is this the only Mac that behaves this way?

 

[MaaseyRacer]

Really? I thought intels love more memory, especially that Xeon in Mac Pro




How can you even live now, going from 8 GB to 2 GB RAM?!

My G5 was way more RAM hungry than my MacBook Pro. And I am surviving the 2GB of RAM thing alright. I am waiting for Mac World to see what is next for me in terms of a desk top.

 

[CanadaRAM]

Still, it seems strange that PM will only accept paired RAM. Is this the only Mac that behaves this way?

MacPro, XServe G5, XServe Xeon

Going back a few years:
Kits of 2: Plus, SE, PowerMac 6100, 7200, 8100, LCII, LC, Classic II, Color Classic, Workgroup Server 8150, 8550
Kits of 4: SE/30, Mac II, IIx, IIfx, IIcx, Mac IIci, IIsi, IIvx, Quadra 700, 900, 950
and their various Performa variants

 

[O and A]

I have a dual 2ghz g5 with 8 slots at work I have 3.5 gigs of ram.

I use photoshop with 100mb files, quark, itunes, illustrator, safari, instant messenger, mail, word, and sometimes indesign all open at the same time.

I don't go over 3 gigs unless i have several large files open with alot of history in photoshop.

I'm curious to see what the next revision of the mac pro holds as we are looking to get another fast machine. Bluray would be nice but i'm really looking forward to 3ghz quad with 4 gigs of ram for the price of that 2.6ghz quad. Of course it would be nice if adobe would move quicker with CS3

 

[eXan]

MacPro, XServe G5, XServe Xeon

Going back a few years:
Kits of 2: Plus, SE, PowerMac 6100, 7200, 8100, LCII, LC, Classic II, Color Classic, Workgroup Server 8150, 8550
Kits of 4: SE/30, Mac II, IIx, IIfx, IIcx, Mac IIci, IIsi, IIvx, Quadra 700, 900, 950
and their various Performa variants