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The absence of Bootcamp is preventing me from switching to M1 or M2... Will there ever be a solution?

Aedant

Aedant

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Sep 30, 2018
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So, I really want to upgrade to a newer mac, I have an iMac from 2019, and really wish to go for an M2 chip. BUT, I have games I love to play on Windows, and they work perfectly on Bootcamp. On Parallels, they don't. I haven't tried Parallels on a M2 Mac, but I doubt it's going to make a big difference for the games I want to play...

My question is : since Parallels has now an ARM version of Windows, do you people think somebody might develop a solution to Dual Boot this ARM version of windows so it runs natively on a Silicon Mac? Is that even possible?
 
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In a word, no.

When Apple chose to go with ARM, they also changed the boot environment, rather than sticking with UEFI, so it's hard to get it to work and it would probably need both Apple and Microsoft to get a dual boot Windows to work on an M series processor, and I don't think there's any motivation from either side to do it. It's possible some third party can figure out enough to do it, but I wouldn't hold my breath. You might just have to go with 2 machines, one intel and one M...

There's a Linux that can dual boot on an M Mac, but they have a little help from Apple and total access to the source and kernel of the and can modify it to fit the machine. Only Microsoft has that much control over their kernel and boot environment.
 
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It's possible but I don't believe it will go well, for several reasons.

  • I haven't heard of Microsoft making ARM games for ARM Windows a part of their corporate strategy.
  • Even if there were any community-developed solutions, they are unlikely to perform as well as native solutions.
  • Software and game developers would need to put in significant effort to make their titles compatible, as not all of their code is CPU-independent.
 
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Developers don't even put alot of the time in the x86 PC version of their AAA games nowadays and focus on consoles instead. The latest Star Wars game doesn't even run properly with a RTX 4090 even as an example.

So imagine how terrible an ARM version on PC would run, which would receive even less attention from the developers than the x86 version (which is already not good).

Creating bootcamp for gaming in Windows ARM is really a waste of time.
 
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No, not going to happen in the near future. By that I mean less than maybe seven years. Who knows after that.

I’ve never used Boot Camp, but I did use a Parallels and I will agree. It doesn’t work well for gaming.

Overall a Mac is a poor choice for gaming. Even back in the day you had to spend extra money to upgrade to a spec that was decent for gaming. Most likely you could’ve bought a separate gaming laptop for what you spent on that. Although that is not as convenient because if you travel a lot and want to game when away from home, that means you’re carrying two separate laptops.

My personal solution has always been have a gaming laptop or desktop PC, and my Mac is for everything not gaming. Lately I went with a desktop because I get more durability and performance for the price and I don’t have to game when I’m away from home. If I’m on vacation for a few weeks, my games will be there when I come back and I want to enjoy whatever scenery and vacation things.

I think the gaming community in general and Apple computers have always had some type of division. I think this caused Apple to consider gaming in a much less serious light. They still look at it, but I think they feel trying to get large market share is unattainable. Because of this, they make decisions with gaming performance very low on the list of priorities.
 
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No. Other solutions already give you access to WinIntel - cloud-based Windows VMs either through AWS or Microsoft. You can also purchase a physical Windows device quite cheaply as well...
 
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If it returns I'd expect a VM solution. Native is just out of the picture on ASi Macs imo.
 
The solution is Parallels, but as you said, it won’t work for everything. Let’s hope that Microsoft will improve x86 emulation over time so more software will run. By the way, Bootcamp won’t make things any better ss you would be still constrained by the limitations of Windows for ARM.
 
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Bootcamp on Apple Silicon wouldn't change much for gaming, since it would run the ARM version of Windows
 
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Aedant said:
So, I really want to upgrade to a newer mac, I have an iMac from 2019, and really wish to go for an M2 chip. BUT, I have games I love to play on Windows, and they work perfectly on Bootcamp. On Parallels, they don't. I haven't tried Parallels on a M2 Mac, but I doubt it's going to make a big difference for the games I want to play...

My question is : since Parallels has now an ARM version of Windows, do you people think somebody might develop a solution to Dual Boot this ARM version of windows so it runs natively on a Silicon Mac? Is that even possible?
Click to expand...

It isn't. The reason Boot Camp is gone is because Microsoft has an exclusivity deal with Windows for ARM for Qualcomm chips. It's all on Microsoft to allow dualbooting, not Apple.

Honestly though if gaming is the reason you're still using an Intel Mac, I suggest you just get a Steam Deck on the side. That's what I use in conjunction with my M1 Pro Macbook Pro.

https://www.steamdeck.com/
 
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I've struggled with this too. Easiest solution is to spend a few hundred bucks on a used or second-hand wintel machine.

Of course, you could keep that Mac you have to exclusively boot into Windows, but it seems like you could probably sell and get a better PC for gaming for the price.
 
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Like someone else suggested, I'd suggest getting a SteamDeck to game on. Between that and my consoles, I have my gaming covered. My Mini is used for work and my other creative stuff.
 
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Aedant said:
So, I really want to upgrade to a newer mac, I have an iMac from 2019, and really wish to go for an M2 chip. BUT, I have games I love to play on Windows, and they work perfectly on Bootcamp. On Parallels, they don't. I haven't tried Parallels on a M2 Mac, but I doubt it's going to make a big difference for the games I want to play...

My question is : since Parallels has now an ARM version of Windows, do you people think somebody might develop a solution to Dual Boot this ARM version of windows so it runs natively on a Silicon Mac? Is that even possible?
Click to expand...
I know it's not what you're asking for - but buy a Steamdeck. I got the cheapest one and put a SD-card in it, job done. It's a great little device that just keeps getting better every single month. Huge fan base, huge support from Valve of course.

This is the way.
 
Several have already offered the advice: the new, complete bootcamp is "old fashioned bootcamp" in the form of a dedicated PC. The great news is that for the price we are accustomed to paying for Macs, you can generally get a pretty robust, powerful PC.

When I went Silicon, I did exactly this because I also needed bootcamp and full Windows (not ARM Windows). It wasn't for gaming but when you re-embrace owning a PC, gaming is one of the bonuses that come with it. Since most of the world (by far) is running Windows, most of the software in the world (by far) runs on Windows. A PC opens up that whole world of additional apps, including the level of games typically unavailable on even the most powerful Macs.

One more tip: since Apple is pushing "separates" anyway, don't automatically choose to buy only ASD. There are plenty of monitors in the world and many outside the walled garden come with more than 1 input for computers or other devices. The one I chose for my Mac has FOUR inputs, so I have both Mac and PC wired into it at the same time and easily switch between the two.

Bottom line: its over for bootcamp unless we cling to Intel Macs. Once we accept that, the choices are the more limited ARM Windows in Parallels or similar or full Windows in a dedicated PC. I went with the latter myself and am much happier than I expected to own a PC again. I do all I can on my new Silicon Mac but some things are Windows-only and many of the bigger games are just one example of that. A new Apple computer budget will but a LOT of PC power.

Cheaper option: if games are good enough for you on the existing Mac, consider advice in #11 and #13 of reallocating existing as a dedicated PC and buying yourself a new Silicon Mac. One way to extend the useful life of an aging Intel Mac is to turn it into a Windows PC. You should be able to install at least Windows 10 on it.
 
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Probably wont happen ever, unless Apple moves back to Intel. I use a workstation with AMD/Nvidia 4090 for Windows/Linux. I still use Apple Laptops though. My last Mac mini was 2009, and Mac Pro 2012.
 
I’ve used Parallels on my M1 Max and it works quite well except for DirectX12 games. Metal seems to be getting closer to DirectX12 feature parity so it’s possible that will improve over time, but there’s obviously no guarantee.

BootCamp would presumably provide full DX12 support, but Microsoft has to decide if it’s worth it. On one hand, they could experience increased revenue from Windows and software sales, but on the other they risk cannibalizing their Surface and upcoming homegrown ARM-based devices business. And on the third hand, the faster they grow their ARM-based Windows business, the faster developers start targeting and optimizing for ARM.
 
Right how the best hope for AAA gaming on ASi seems to be Asahi Linux, which is kind of crazy. Basically, a couple of very talented devs (possibly the same guy and his alter ego) have gotten Linux to boot on ASi, written GPU driver, and are working on getting proton to work, without any help from Apple. Let's hope Apple doesn't somehow decide to shut them down

But yeah, get a PC
 
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Aedant said:
So, I really want to upgrade to a newer mac, I have an iMac from 2019, and really wish to go for an M2 chip. BUT, I have games I love to play on Windows, and they work perfectly on Bootcamp. On Parallels, they don't. I haven't tried Parallels on a M2 Mac, but I doubt it's going to make a big difference for the games I want to play...

My question is : since Parallels has now an ARM version of Windows, do you people think somebody might develop a solution to Dual Boot this ARM version of windows so it runs natively on a Silicon Mac? Is that even possible?
Click to expand...
Don’t ever count on it. While basic windows might work, if Microsoft wants it to, because it uses a custom Apple gpu, there’s essentially zero chance of real graphics drivers good enough for games. Parallels, fusion and crossover all have mediocre gpu performance on m1 as a result.

plus, you’d have to run win 11, with its Rosetta like layer, which adds Overhead.

The best option, and frankly better than boot camp on intel, is to get something like shadow.tech and use cloud gaming. Shadow works great on macs.
 
Zest28 said:
Developers don't even put alot of the time in the x86 PC version of their AAA games nowadays and focus on consoles instead. The latest Star Wars game doesn't even run properly with a RTX 4090 even as an example.

So imagine how terrible an ARM version on PC would run, which would receive even less attention from the developers than the x86 version (which is already not good).

Creating bootcamp for gaming in Windows ARM is really a waste of time.
Click to expand...
Yes I have been thinking for a while we are headed to some kind of AAA crash or SOMETHING. I have been so fed up with AAA games lately. Indie games is where it is for me now. And most of those are on macs. Even two developer houses do more than AAA studios.

I’m not happy my i9 and 4090 has had a few games now that’s been a struggle. Just makes me want to get console and be done with it but Jedi Survivor doesn’t do well on Xbox either. Plus I prefer keyboard and mouse in most games.
 
Ethosik said:
Yes I have been thinking for a while we are headed to some kind of AAA crash or SOMETHING. I have been so fed up with AAA games lately. Indie games is where it is for me now. And most of those are on macs. Even two developer houses do more than AAA studios.

I’m not happy my i9 and 4090 has had a few games now that’s been a struggle. Just makes me want to get console and be done with it but Jedi Survivor doesn’t do well on Xbox either. Plus I prefer keyboard and mouse in most games.
Click to expand...

I completely agree. It's frustrating when AAA games on PC don't live up to our expectations, but it's reassuring to know that there is hope for improvement. Games like NMS, Cyberpunk, and Arkham City have shown us that developers who continue to patch their games well after release can turn a mediocre game into a great one. And then there are developers like Rockstar who release their PC ports years after their console counterparts, but still manage to keep the game in a good state. It's become clear that releasing console and PC ports simultaneously is no longer feasible due to the complexity of the games and the various requirements and variations.
 
Aedant said:
My question is : since Parallels has now an ARM version of Windows, do you people think somebody might develop a solution to Dual Boot this ARM version of windows so it runs natively on a Silicon Mac? Is that even possible?
Click to expand...
Sure. I mean Apple won't open up their boot-loader to any possible angle of attack. But it is not impossible.
More importantly: Will Windows on ARM ever become relevant?
People want to dual-boot into Windows on x86 − not ARM.
 
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