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The "Apple, turn on TRIM!" Request Thread
- Thread starter MDangerous
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Did you receive an answer from Lacie yet? I'm interested in buying the LBD Thunderbolt 2 and I'm sure it supports TRIM in RAID-1 mode but what about RAID-0 mode?
One more comment: With this TRIM refusal for third party SSD's, Apple is not only preventing people to upgrade older Mac's with newer Non-Apple-SSD's.
They are also sabotaging all high priced premium SSD's attached to Thunderbolt (or eSATA for older Mac Pro's). So they kill their own Thunderbolt interface. Why should i buy an expensive Thunderbolt-attached SSD drive if the function ability is ruined? This way, Thunderbolt is dead on the long run.
Realy stupid.
They are also sabotaging all high priced premium SSD's attached to Thunderbolt (or eSATA for older Mac Pro's). So they kill their own Thunderbolt interface. Why should i buy an expensive Thunderbolt-attached SSD drive if the function ability is ruined? This way, Thunderbolt is dead on the long run.
Realy stupid.
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Thanks for starting this thread...
I also used the subject: Please enable native TRIM support for third-party SSDs
I then suggested that if they didn't want users to have TRIM by default on all SSDs, then please (a) allow users to edit a plist file to enable support, or (b) allow users to download an apple signed kext (with TRIM support for all SSDs) from apple support or from the App store.
I'm not very hopeful, as I think they make more money from forced upgrades for SSD capacity reasons, than they might lose from anyone switching to windows or linux on pc hardware.
I asked Lacie EMEA Support about Trim and the LBD-2 Thunderbolt 1TB and they replied to me that OS X doesn't support trim at all. There we have it
In the mean time my unit has arrived and I can confirm that trim works in RAID-0 as well as RAID-1 mode (tested on a MBP 2011 using OS X 10.10 and trim enabled through Trim Enabler).
Performance on this MBP however didn't go over 450/400MB read/write (Blackmagic test using 1GB and 5GB test files) which strikes me as odd as I thought (based on several online reviews) the Lacie LBD-2 Thunderbolt 1TB should give better performance when connected to a Thunderbolt 1 port (800MB-ish read/write).
I asked Lacie EMEA Support about Trim and the LBD-2 Thunderbolt 1TB and they replied to me that OS X doesn't support trim at all. There we have it
Need I say MORE
Lou
apple & trim
Some things to clarify:
Apples driver for ssds checks if the ssd identifies itself with "APPLE SSD" and only then enables the trim command. The "Trim Enabler" just does a patch on this driver to make it accept any identification. Of course they dont say that officially but the reason is most likely that apple doesnt want us to buy parts. Now if they thought of that when implementing the kext protection in Yosemite cant be known, but on their newest System everything got complicated now.. you can read about that on "Trim Enablers" website. there is an ssd "SSD wrk for Mac" from Angelbird which claims to have native trim support, but i bet they just set up their SSDs firmware to identify as "APPLE SSD". it would be nice to have that confirmed by anyone who bought one of these! (spotlight for "System Information.app" and check the Model string under the SATA tab). what i wonder now is, if it would be possible to do the same for a standard ssd like the Samsung 840 EVO. that would need a patched firmware but then everything would work smooth on yosemite. until apple starts to hardwire ssd chips to their boards unless ofc they listen to their customers feedback for once… (sadly i doubt that)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axSnW-ygU5g
btw i still sent a feedback to them
Some things to clarify:
Apples driver for ssds checks if the ssd identifies itself with "APPLE SSD" and only then enables the trim command. The "Trim Enabler" just does a patch on this driver to make it accept any identification. Of course they dont say that officially but the reason is most likely that apple doesnt want us to buy parts. Now if they thought of that when implementing the kext protection in Yosemite cant be known, but on their newest System everything got complicated now.. you can read about that on "Trim Enablers" website. there is an ssd "SSD wrk for Mac" from Angelbird which claims to have native trim support, but i bet they just set up their SSDs firmware to identify as "APPLE SSD". it would be nice to have that confirmed by anyone who bought one of these! (spotlight for "System Information.app" and check the Model string under the SATA tab). what i wonder now is, if it would be possible to do the same for a standard ssd like the Samsung 840 EVO. that would need a patched firmware but then everything would work smooth on yosemite. until apple starts to hardwire ssd chips to their boards
unless ofc they listen to their customers feedback for once… (sadly i doubt that)https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axSnW-ygU5g
btw i still sent a feedback to them
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Some things to clarify:
Apples driver for ssds checks if the ssd identifies itself with "APPLE SSD" and only then enables the trim command. The "Trim Enabler" just does a patch on this driver to make it accept any identification. Of course they dont say that officially but the reason is most likely that apple doesnt want us to buy parts. Now if they thought of that when implementing the kext protection in Yosemite cant be known, but on their newest System everything got complicated now.. you can read about that on "Trim Enablers" website. there is an ssd "SSD wrk for Mac" from Angelbird which claims to have native trim support, but i bet they just set up their SSDs firmware to identify as "APPLE SSD". it would be nice to have that confirmed by anyone who bought one of these! (spotlight for "System Information.app" and check the Model string under the SATA tab). what i wonder now is, if it would be possible to do the same for a standard ssd like the Samsung 840 EVO. that would need a patched firmware but then everything would work smooth on yosemite. until apple starts to hardwire ssd chips to their boards
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axSnW-ygU5g
btw i still sent a feedback to them
I suspect that if a large company such as Samsung or Crucial offered an SSD with the internal identifier of "APPLE SSD", there would be legal action to protect the trademark.
Given that Apple are unlikely to relax the restrictions on TRIM, the next best option would be an SSD with Open Source firmware. Then an app could be created that would allow the user to patch the string in the SSD Firmware (not the apple kext).
There are these projects, but a lot of the pages have no updates since 2011.
http://www.openssd-project.org
https://code.google.com/p/opennfm/
The OpenSSD project does have some more recent updates, but I think we are some way away from having something we can install in a Macbook Pro and click on an app to update TRIM support.
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There is a company doing just that, and has been doing it for some time. I know of no one on this forum with one, and no legal action taken by Apple against Anglebird:
http://www.angelbird.com/en/prod/ssd-wrk-for-mac-929/
Lou
I'm aware of Anglebird ... see the post from zzzachi that I was replying to.
The key phrase in my post was "large company". I suspect that Anglebird has little or no presence in the USA, so it presents a different legal situation than with companies like Crucial, Intel, Samsung, Sandisk or Toshiba where Apple would have the option of taking legal action against a US company or subsidiary.
Actually the id only has to start with "APPLE SSD", it can be followed by a supplier code. Apple doesnt produce own SSDs, they use actually the same ones you could buy yourself, but with a modified firmware to exclude all SSDs not ordered of Apple from TRIM. Thats how it works. So another reason they don't sue Angelbird is maybe that next to that Angelbird is small, they don't want the press to focus on the subject.
Again, if anybody can confirm Angelbird wrk SSDs use "APPLE SSD" as id, that would be appreciated !
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Instead of messing with the software why not figure out a way to overwrite the SSD
I have given feedback many times. It simply seems that Apple executives do not care.
Did Angelbird not enable native TRIM by assigning the controller an Apple serial number?
Can't we edit a firmware in a hex editor and pump it to the flash on the third party hard drive's controller and make OS X think it is an Apple part?
I have given feedback many times. It simply seems that Apple executives do not care.
Did Angelbird not enable native TRIM by assigning the controller an Apple serial number?
Can't we edit a firmware in a hex editor and pump it to the flash on the third party hard drive's controller and make OS X think it is an Apple part?
its their policy: force people to buy overpriced spare parts.
more and more they are actively hindering people to install own parts.
they are using an own driver/kext, so apples kext is not needed.
this is maybe even the easier way: ask ssd manufacturers to deliver their own drivers.
in theory, yes. in reality the firmware i checked was encrypted,
and to break that you need a considerable amount of time and knowledge.
if you have some knowledge in this field, pm me
by the way, an interesting article on the topic:
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/samsung-840-evo-msata-review,3716-10.html
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.. i must correct myself about angelbird wrk ssds :
they dont use an own kext driver,
they really just use "APPLE SSD.." as start of their firmware id,
so macosx thinks its an apple ssd and enables trim.
see here at 11:30 :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vm_bdwRRnfg
maybe a legal grey zone, but a good way to outflank apples evilness.
they dont use an own kext driver,
they really just use "APPLE SSD.." as start of their firmware id,
so macosx thinks its an apple ssd and enables trim.
see here at 11:30 :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vm_bdwRRnfg
maybe a legal grey zone, but a good way to outflank apples evilness.
A question....
I don't want to sound it like off-topic, but why do you guys need a TRIM support for a 3rd-party drive? My early-2014 MBA came w/ Apple SSD and TRIM is enabled by default
I don't want to sound it like off-topic, but why do you guys need a TRIM support for a 3rd-party drive? My early-2014 MBA came w/ Apple SSD and TRIM is enabled by default
